Rail Freight Flows and News UK

markymark2000

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Please can anyone help?
I am wondering what car trains still run. I'm aware of Halewood running car trains down to JLR but are there any others? Wikipedia refers to BMW using them but I can't find anything on RTT.
 
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Far north 37

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Please can anyone help?
I am wondering what car trains still run. I'm aware of Halewood running car trains down to JLR but are there any others? Wikipedia refers to BMW using them but I can't find anything on RTT.
morris cowley to southhampton docks and somehere else think one of the essex ports dagenham to mossend and dagenham to halewood.
 
Last edited:

Freightmaster

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Please can anyone help?
I am wondering what car trains still run.
Right now? None, due to car plants (and car dealers!) being shut down due to the virus.


Before the virus, the following ran:

- Dagenham to Mossend (Ford, operated by DB Cargo)
- Dagenham to Garston (Ford, operated by DRS)

- Halewood to Southampton Eastern Docks (JLR, operated by DB Cargo)
- Castle Bromwich to Southampton Eastern Docks (JLR, operated by DB Cargo)
- Cowley (Oxford) to Southampton Eastern Docks (MINI, operated by DB Cargo)
- Cowley (Oxford) to Purfleet (MINI, operated by DB Cargo)



hope this helps,

MARK
 

markymark2000

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Right now? None, due to car plants (and car dealers!) being shut down due to the virus.


Before the virus, the following ran:

- Dagenham to Mossend (Ford, operated by DB Cargo)
- Dagenham to Garston (Ford, operated by DRS)

- Halewood to Southampton Eastern Docks (JLR, operated by DB Cargo)
- Castle Bromwich to Southampton Eastern Docks (JLR, operated by DB Cargo)
- Cowley (Oxford) to Southampton Eastern Docks (MINI, operated by DB Cargo)
- Cowley (Oxford) to Purfleet (MINI, operated by DB Cargo)



hope this helps,

MARK
Fantastic. Thank you.
 

BRX

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If parts, rather than finished cars, count then the train through the channel tunnel with aluminium for Jaguar/Land Rover still seems to be running.
 

pmb

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A new flow of paper slurry from Aberdeen to Spalding, where it is transferred to road transport onwards to King's Lynn, has started, operated by Colas.
What would be the reason for not taking it all the way to King's Lynn by rail out of interest?
 

palmersears

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What would be the reason for not taking it all the way to King's Lynn by rail out of interest?
From what I have read elsewhere the mill they're destined for doesn't have the capacity to accept all the load at once, and the sidings at Spalding are the nearest suitable place to store the tanks for a week whilst the calcium carbonate is unloaded into road tankers for onward delivery to the mill at Kings Lynn.

It's been mentioned that the tanks will be there until 1 June, and the next return working is expected to be a fair bit longer in terms of length.
 

pmb

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From what I have read elsewhere the mill they're destined for doesn't have the capacity to accept all the load at once, and the sidings at Spalding are the nearest suitable place to store the tanks for a week whilst the calcium carbonate is unloaded into road tankers for onward delivery to the mill at Kings Lynn.

It's been mentioned that the tanks will be there until 1 June, and the next return working is expected to be a fair bit longer in terms of length.
I see. Thanks!
 

stantheman

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Something odd in Scotland tomorrow Sat . The Tees Dock to Scotland does not normally run on a Sat morning but is booked tomorrow . It seems to spend some time at Millerhill before proceeding to Mossend mid morning . Strangely there then seems to be a portion from Millerhill for Eldersle near Paisley
, which has handled intermodal traffic from Grangemouth in the past . No sign of any return working over the following days or even a return light engine movement .
 

furnessvale

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Something odd in Scotland tomorrow Sat . The Tees Dock to Scotland does not normally run on a Sat morning but is booked tomorrow . It seems to spend some time at Millerhill before proceeding to Mossend mid morning . Strangely there then seems to be a portion from Millerhill for Eldersle near Paisley
, which has handled intermodal traffic from Grangemouth in the past . No sign of any return working over the following days or even a return light engine movement .
I understand it is initially a one off customer request with the possibility of more in future.
 

Freightmaster

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Something odd in Scotland tomorrow Sat . The Tees Dock to Scotland does not normally run on a Sat morning but is booked tomorrow . It seems to spend some time at Millerhill before proceeding to Mossend mid morning . Strangely there then seems to be a portion from Millerhill for Eldersle near Paisley
For clarification, there are all sorts of spurious / speculative freight paths like this one listed on RTT which never run;
but are still automatically given 'VAR' paths when engineering work takes place, which to to the casual observer can
sometimes make it look like they are booked to run that day.




MARK
 

Donny_m

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For clarification, there are all sorts of spurious / speculative freight paths like this one listed on RTT which never run;
but are still automatically given 'VAR' paths when engineering work takes place, which to to the casual observer can
sometimes make it look like they are booked to run that day.




MARK

why do these paths remain on RTT for many years after they cease? Avonmouth coal silo hasn’t been used by DBC for over 3 years and still shows up with flows.
 

800002

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why do these paths remain on RTT for many years after they cease? Avonmouth coal silo hasn’t been used by DBC for over 3 years and still shows up with flows.
They stay in the timetable as they are strategic paths - if they were to be taken out, other services (in particular passenger services) would be bid into those slots and before long would never again be available for freight use.

By retaining the paths, they are preserved within the timetable planning process to enable other, future, flows to be introduced.

Also, one (not very often used) path can allow other freight services to utilise key parts of it, enabling it to run.
Eg, getting into / out of Avonmouth to /from the main line and over key junctions, which would be in all likelyhood lost if the path were to be removed permanently.

As an aside, the A4C freight planners at Milton Keynes have to have something to play with in order to plan additional / heavily amended A4C train path requests.
They are a valuable source of pathing ability which otherwise wouldn't be there.
 

markymark2000

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They stay in the timetable as they are strategic paths - if they were to be taken out, other services (in particular passenger services) would be bid into those slots and before long would never again be available for freight use.

By retaining the paths, they are preserved within the timetable planning process to enable other, future, flows to be introduced.

Also, one (not very often used) path can allow other freight services to utilise key parts of it, enabling it to run.
Eg, getting into / out of Avonmouth to /from the main line and over key junctions, which would be in all likelyhood lost if the path were to be removed permanently.

As an aside, the A4C freight planners at Milton Keynes have to have something to play with in order to plan additional / heavily amended A4C train path requests.
They are a valuable source of pathing ability which otherwise wouldn't be there.
And if no trains use the slot, it might help catch up some delays on other trains.
 

800002

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And if no trains use the slot, it might help catch up some delays on other trains.
From an operational point of view, yes. Definitely.

If more and more passenger services get put into the plan, it gets harder and harder to recover any delay... Running buffer to buffer, as it were, leaves little room to claw back time.
 

Romsey

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They stay in the timetable as they are strategic paths - if they were to be taken out, other services (in particular passenger services) would be bid into those slots and before long would never again be available for freight use.

By retaining the paths, they are preserved within the timetable planning process to enable other, future, flows to be introduced.

Also, one (not very often used) path can allow other freight services to utilise key parts of it, enabling it to run.
Eg, getting into / out of Avonmouth to /from the main line and over key junctions, which would be in all likelyhood lost if the path were to be removed permanently.

As an aside, the A4C freight planners at Milton Keynes have to have something to play with in order to plan additional / heavily amended A4C train path requests.
They are a valuable source of pathing ability which otherwise wouldn't be there.


20+ years ago at a regional level, there was a considerable trade in exchanging paths to move special traffic. As long as Red / Green / Blue companies felt they were getting what they needed there was no problem.
Most phone calls/e-mails started with "Will you need 6--- from A to B of date xx? It's for special traffic for a new flow of rock treacle from Frant to Llandarcy." Apparently Anglia, Southern and Scotland drove the hardest bargains.....

PS How do you think certain charter operators get facilities and timings others don't??
 

800002

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20+ years ago at a regional level, there was a considerable trade in exchanging paths to move special traffic. As long as Red / Green / Blue companies felt they were getting what they needed there was no problem.
Most phone calls/e-mails started with "Will you need 6--- from A to B of date xx? It's for special traffic for a new flow of rock treacle from Frant to Llandarcy." Apparently Anglia, Southern and Scotland drove the hardest bargains.....

PS How do you think certain charter operators get facilities and timings others don't??
The good old days, eh?
I think these days it's down to the NR planner to get the phone calls in to work out if another operator is intending on using their path. Or simply have 'the know'.... There are still some there who have it.

As for charters... I'm sure it helps when certain operators actually bid an entire set of paths rather than start / end timings and routing information (or should that be the other way around).... But it does depend on what you're putting into the timetable.
Also, one or two operators have many more schedules in the system to piggyback on to start with, in the knowledge of what isn't going to be running (with relative certainty).
 

The Planner

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They stay in the timetable as they are strategic paths - if they were to be taken out, other services (in particular passenger services) would be bid into those slots and before long would never again be available for freight use.

By retaining the paths, they are preserved within the timetable planning process to enable other, future, flows to be introduced.

Also, one (not very often used) path can allow other freight services to utilise key parts of it, enabling it to run.
Eg, getting into / out of Avonmouth to /from the main line and over key junctions, which would be in all likelyhood lost if the path were to be removed permanently.

As an aside, the A4C freight planners at Milton Keynes have to have something to play with in order to plan additional / heavily amended A4C train path requests.
They are a valuable source of pathing ability which otherwise wouldn't be there.
I doubt all the ones that hang around and not removed by the Part J process are QJ paths? There was a bit of a cleansing a few years back to get rid of some stuff but there are clearly some standard paths which aren't used. The issue with utilising part of a QJ path is that the rest becomes useless. The difficult bit is finding new/extra ones.
 

800002

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I doubt all the ones that hang around and not removed by the Part J process are QJ paths? There was a bit of a cleansing a few years back to get rid of some stuff but there are clearly some standard paths which aren't used. The issue with utilising part of a QJ path is that the rest becomes useless. The difficult bit is finding new/extra ones.
Indeed, yes there was.
I believe in anticipation of various operator fleet enhancements allowing timetable enhancements, with the freeing up and creation / augmentation of 'white space' on the graph(s). But don't quote me on that.

'QJ' paths still are respected at timetable creation / Long Term Planning stages however, aren't they?

QJ paths are useful for the RSB team (rolling spot bids) as they provide a good starting point, if they happen to be in the right area that is.

Once the disused freight paths are removed completely, I don't think they'll ever be accommodated again to be honest. Which is why they are designated 'strategic' QJ paths and stay in the WTT.
 

BRX

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There is quite a large number of paths between Dollands Moor (for the Channel Tunnel) and Wembley, which hardly ever get used, but as I understand it are in there as "strategic" paths in case tunnel traffic ever picks up again.
 

palmersears

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A new flow of paper slurry from Aberdeen to Spalding, where it is transferred to road transport onwards to King's Lynn, has started, operated by Colas.
What would be the reason for not taking it all the way to King's Lynn by rail out of interest?
Return empties:

 

Geeves

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Couple of reasons I would imagine, no access to unload to lorries at Kings Lynn and sidings needed to be cleared so that trains can access the branch.
 

Oxfordblues

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Please can anyone help?
I am wondering what car trains still run. I'm aware of Halewood running car trains down to JLR but are there any others? Wikipedia refers to BMW using them but I can't find anything on RTT.
Good news: 4S01 16:44 Morris Cowley - Purfleet Deep Water Wharf is running today with 10 WIAs.
 

Murray J

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a new rail freight flow from Dove Holes Quarry to Crawley aggregates, operated by GB Railfreight. according to the article, the train will operate once a week once normal service has resumed, the first train ran on 18th April 2020.
 

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