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Rail industry preparing for national strikes

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muz379

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OK, then I can point to the Southern DOO strikes which trashed our service for months and achieved nothing. That's a clear example of the unions making the railway a worse experience for passengers.
Not really sure what your point is ,these are completely seperate disputes . It sounds like you have not got over the DOO strikes on southern .

You are claiming that the unions are threatening something which currently they are not , no strike dates have been called and a clear message has been communicated that strikes can be avoided .
 
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Snow1964

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I'd be interested to know why you think its the Unions that are driving the passengers away.

That should be obvious :
they talk about strikes, disruption, interrupted services, point out ticket office closures, cut services with gaps

They don’t ever talk publicly about :
Going the extra mile to help passengers, trying to work with management to decrease fares or increase capacity

It all comes over as anti-passenger, almost like don’t care about fare income to pay our members wages.
 

ar10642

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Not really sure what your point is ,these are completely seperate disputes . It sounds like you have not got over the DOO strikes on southern .

You are claiming that the unions are threatening something which currently they are not , no strike dates have been called and a clear message has been communicated that strikes can be avoided .

Pretty clear they're going to do it because 9% rises are flat out not going to happen. Even if they don't, threatening them means nobody can book tickets or make plans with confidence. So yes, the unions, and the unions alone are *absolutely* driving passengers away. Not that they care.
 

Starmill

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This really is just hyperbole at this stage , no strikes have been announced only the ballot result and with the clear option of meaningful talks to avoid strike action .
To be fair there has already been significant industrial action at London Underground and TransPennine Express, and it is overwhelmingly likely that further action via disputes at Aslef and TSSA will be called. In other words, both the scope and scale of action are likely to be very large.
 

43066

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There really isn't. I simply couldn't work in an environment where this rubbish is going on, imagine losing money and trashing your industry in pursuit of a pay deal that's never going to happen and trying to emotionally blackmail your colleagues into doing the same. If you don't like your pay and/or conditions, other jobs are available.

Yes, that little rant shows you’re a case in point of someone who clearly hates the idea of unions. Why is it you’re evidently so triggered by the concept of employees working together collectively and being empowered to stand up to their employers, rather than just taking whatever scraps are thrown? I suspect that level of agency is something you lack in your own workplace.

Perhaps your own Ts and Cs would be better if you had similar where you work? That’s something to consider, rather than just trashing others in an industry you clearly don’t understand.

Pretty clear they're going to do it because 9% rises are flat out not going to happen.

Again, evidently you don’t understand the concept of a negotiation.
 

43096

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You are claiming that the unions are threatening something which currently they are not , no strike dates have been called and a clear message has been communicated that strikes can be avoided .
Not threatening? Are you for real? The whole point of the ballot and getting the vote for strike action is to act as a threat.
 

ar10642

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Yes, that little rant shows you’re a case in point of someone who clearly hates the idea of unions. Why is it you’re evidently so triggered by the concept of employees working together collectively and being empowered to stand up to their employers, rather than just taking whatever scraps are thrown? I suspect that level of agency is something you lack in your own workplace.

Perhaps your own Ts and Cs would be better if you had similar where you work? That’s something to consider, rather than just trashing others in an industry you clearly don’t understand.



Again, evidently you don’t understand the concept of a negotiation.

I understand that I'm facing a summer of doing 200 mile round trips by road to work because railway workers think only their jobs matter.
 

Siggy1980s

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Pretty clear they're going to do it because 9% rises are flat out not going to happen. Even if they don't, threatening them means nobody can book tickets or make plans with confidence. So yes, the unions, and the unions alone are *absolutely* driving passengers away. Not that they care.
Hmmmm. York station car park today says otherwise. Very nearly full. Passengers are not being driven away because of anything railway related. It's just that quite a lot found new ways to work after Covid. You just feel that you have to justify your rant, because you don't want railway staff to be well paid, and that's basically what it boils down to. Because you can't have something, then neither should the rest.
 

Siggy1980s

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I understand that I'm facing a summer of doing 200 mile round trips by road to work because railway workers think only their jobs matter.
It's not the railways fault you choose to live 100 miles from work. Just WFH, apparently it's all the rage these days, people don't need railways looking at some of the posts on here.
 

LowLevel

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And some of us work in industries where the employer-employee relationship tends to be much less adversarial and can see the benefits of that. Without placing blame on either side, and from outside observation only, I think the relationship between employer and employee on the railway is not only adversarial but utterly poisonous. I don't however know how that can be fixed.
I disagree entirely. Maybe in some places but where I am it is pretty cordial in general from the bottom to the top and that includes between union reps and managers.

I'm not going to say it's always perfect but it is far from the state you might imagine.
 

Andyh82

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Did rail firms really make “bumper profits” during COVID as per the RMT quote in the article on the BBC News website?
 

AlterEgo

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I disagree entirely. Maybe in some places but where I am it is pretty cordial in general from the bottom to the top and that includes between union reps and managers.

I'm not going to say it's always perfect but it is far from the state you might imagine.
It does indeed vary from TOC to TOC. I worked at two TOCs, both of whom had good relationships with their staff. I was once balloted at Virgin West Coast for strike action (in an office job) and abstained from the vote. At CrossCountry, during my time the relationship between management and staff was quite good. There were some Sunday working disputes but that was just part of the usual to-ing and fro-ing of industrial relations. A little tension is good, unions are a necessary evil and it is possible for both management and union to abuse the power they have.

Of course there are TOCs where things have gone quite sour, and that is quite regrettable.
 

ComUtoR

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I understand that I'm facing a summer of doing 200 mile round trips by road to work because railway workers think only their jobs matter.

Isn't this a bit pot/kettle ?

You don't care about Railworkers because it affects you. What if it didn't ?
 

Cowley

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Can I suggest everyone calms down a little please.
Keep it civil everyone…

Thanks :)
 

ar10642

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Isn't this a bit pot/kettle ?

You don't care about Railworkers because it affects you. What if it didn't ?

Actually it can quite easily not affect me as I'll just drive. I don't particularly like it but maybe I'll get used to it if the railway is out of action for months on end.
 

Bow Fell

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It does indeed vary from TOC to TOC. I worked at two TOCs, both of whom had good relationships with their staff. I was once balloted at Virgin West Coast for strike action (in an office job) and abstained from the vote. At CrossCountry, during my time the relationship between management and staff was quite good. There were some Sunday working disputes but that was just part of the usual to-ing and fro-ing of industrial relations. A little tension is good, unions are a necessary evil and it is possible for both management and union to abuse the power they have.

Of course there are TOCs where things have gone quite sour, and that is quite regrettable.

Agreed,

As usual the ill-informed think the union/TOC’s are constantly at loggerheads, they aren’t, they can both work together to do some really good work, I know a colleague displaced from a safety-critical position due to illness and the union/HR/line management, worked their arses off to find them a new role. To me that’s what can be achieved and much more what a union is about than just “striking”
 

Bletchleyite

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I disagree entirely. Maybe in some places but where I am it is pretty cordial in general from the bottom to the top and that includes between union reps and managers.

I'm not going to say it's always perfect but it is far from the state you might imagine.

It's certainly worse than my industry. I'm not in a union, but I have never been in a position where I felt I needed to be, and certainly never felt I would want to strike. Whereas it seems industrial action is a key part of pay negotiation, and that's not good.
 

dk1

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Agreed,

As usual the ill-informed think the union/TOC’s are constantly at loggerheads, they aren’t, they can both work together to do some really good work, I know a colleague displaced from a safety-critical position due to illness and the union/HR/line management, worked their arses off to find them a new role. To me that’s what can be achieved and much more what a union is about than just “striking”
Couldn’t agree more. Our union/management relations are good & constructive the majority of the time & where superb throughout the pandemic particularly on training.
 

NI 271

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What do you think the railway is for?
I'll tell you what it ISN'T; somewhere employee rights must be ignored at the behest of bitter people outwith it purely because it might inconvenience them for a few days. This is remarkably melodramatic.
 

ar10642

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I'll tell you what it ISN'T; somewhere employee rights must be ignored at the behest of bitter people outwith it purely because it might inconvenience them for a few days. This is remarkably melodramatic.

So it's a few days now and not months on end?
 

the sniper

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There really isn't. I simply couldn't work in an environment where this rubbish is going on, imagine losing money and trashing your industry in pursuit of a pay deal that's never going to happen and trying to emotionally blackmail your colleagues into doing the same. If you don't like your pay and/or conditions, other jobs are available.

Just ensure you don't join an industry that has ever historically advanced its pay and/or conditions as a result of an organised workforce/collective bargaining, as you wouldn't wish to take take advantage of such 'rubbish', not that I recognise veracity of your claim.
 

matacaster

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To be fair there has already been significant industrial action at London Underground and TransPennine Express, and it is overwhelmingly likely that further action via disputes at Aslef and TSSA will be called. In other words, both the scope and scale of action are likely to be very large.
Normally I would use TPE to get to Manchester Airport, the service is fast and really good. However, unless the industrial action ceases, I simply can't rely on it can I?
 

Bow Fell

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Couldn’t agree more. Our union/management relations are good & constructive the majority of the time & where superb throughout the pandemic particularly on training.

At a National/higher level maybe, it would seem that the TOC’s / unions are constantly at each other’s throats. And it would be wrong of me to say I haven’t rolled my eyes at some “disputes”

However at a local level the work with the TOC’s and Union is superb, it’s not perfect by any means, but I think most on here will just see the words “pay” and “strikes” and get completely the wrong end of the stick of what a union does.
 

AlterEgo

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At a National/higher level maybe, it would seem that the TOC’s / unions are constantly at each other’s throats. And it would be wrong of me to say I haven’t rolled my eyes at some “disputes”

However at a local level the work with the TOC’s and Union is superb, it’s not perfect by any means, but I think most on here will just see the words “pay” and “strikes” and get completely the wrong end of the stick of what a union does.
A lot of the anti-union comments are also from people who, in the course of their work, can't be killed or end up killing somebody. It is a vital part of the puzzle in understanding why unions are so heavily embedded in the railway.
 

matacaster

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It's certainly worse than my industry. I'm not in a union, but I have never been in a position where I felt I needed to be, and certainly never felt I would want to strike. Whereas it seems industrial action is a key part of pay negotiation, and that's not good.

It's certainly worse than my industry. I'm not in a union, but I have never been in a position where I felt I needed to be, and certainly never felt I would want to strike. Whereas it seems industrial action is a key part of pay negotiation, and that's not good.
+1
 

43066

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Actually it can quite easily not affect me as I'll just drive. I don't particularly like it but maybe I'll get used to it if the railway is out of action for months on end.

Maybe do that then, or move, or change jobs to one that’s less than 200 miles away?

Still not addressing the questions I asked in post #1,296 I see. I’m sure it suits the chancellor and the rest of the government very well that you’re blaming your work situation on the railway unions…
 

GB

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I understand that I'm facing a summer of doing 200 mile round trips by road to work because railway workers think only their jobs matter.

If you don’t like it why don’t you find another job or move closer. That’s the sort of thing you are suggesting to the railway workers.
 

ar10642

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Maybe do that then, or move, or change jobs to one that’s less than 200 miles away?

Still not addressing the questions I asked in post #1,296 I see. I’m sure it suits the chancellor and the rest of the government very well that you’re blaming your work situation on the railway unions…

I'm getting out of this now, I've seen enough. The railway clearly exists as a club for its workers, damn the people who might want to use it.
 
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