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Rail services from Brighton in the 'new normal'

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700007

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Rail services from Brighton have been cut as is the case across much of the country, to reflect with on and off travel restrictions and drop in demand for rail travel as home working increases.

Services on the West Coastway have seen the Brighton to West Worthing all stations 313 shuttle suspended. The stops at Aldrington, Fishersgate, Southwick and East Worthing have been added to the London Victoria to Littlehampton service instead, with Brighton passengers told to use the shuttle service that connects at Hove. As I also understand it, everything has converted to 377 operation on this line too?

On the East Coastway, the 387s have taken over many Brighton to Eastbourne / Hastings runs. The Brighton to Lewes all stations shuttle service has been suspended with no replacement (the local B&H buses should suffice and the half hourly Seaford service remains). This leaves, if I am correct, the 313s only to be working Brighton to Seaford and that's it.

On the main line, Gatwick Express has been suspended - potentially permanently the way things are looking? There's 0 demand and it isn't looking to come back for the foreseeable future. Southern's Brighton to Victoria services have been sped up and now omit Clapham Junction (which is a discussion in another thread) using the displaced 387s. Thameslink remains at 4 trains an hour off peak and the Littlehampton trains during the peak have brought this up to 6.

What would a new post-pandemic timetable potentially look like on these lines?

Could this be an early retirement for the 313s?

Could the 8tph London to Brighton service return? Would personally like a 6tph London Bridge to Brighton service for purely selfish reasons - but I imagine it would be used fairly well.
 
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mugam4

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The majority of the Brighton mainline service alterations (GX suspended, etc) are due to the works at Gatwick reducing platform capacity rather than the virus, which happened to turn up at the same time.
 

700007

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The majority of the Brighton mainline service alterations (GX suspended, etc) are due to the works at Gatwick reducing platform capacity rather than the virus, which happened to turn up at the same time.
GX being fully suspended was something brought on the virus. The Gatwick Airport works I am sure were only due to cut GX services from 4 to 2 - but the through services to Brighton were supposed to continue, I believe.
 

mugam4

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GX being fully suspended was something brought on the virus. The Gatwick Airport works I am sure were only due to cut GX services from 4 to 2 - but the through services to Brighton were supposed to continue, I believe.
GTR being GTR, I would say that the GX has indeed been reduced from 4 to 2, with a couple of stops inserted. It is run under the SN brand because it would otherwise leave the southern BML with no route NOT GATWICK EXPRESS services to Victoria, but as you say, it is diagrammed for 387s.
 

I13

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GTR being GTR, I would say that the GX has indeed been reduced from 4 to 2, with a couple of stops inserted. It is run under the SN brand because it would otherwise leave the southern BML with no route NOT GATWICK EXPRESS services to Victoria, but as you say, it is diagrammed for 387s.
The original pre-Covid plan was for it only to be Gatwick Express running Victoria - Brighton. There were originally concerns as you hint at that people would either have to pay the Gatwick Express fare or change to/from Thameslink en route, but it was later announced that tickets would be accepted on Gatwick Express thereby resolving the issue as per the below article extract, so this wasn't the reason (took me a while to find something that confirmed I hadn't made this up!). The GX suspension is Covid related.
Further changes to Southern and Gatwick Express services are also required. There will be no off-peak Southern services between Brighton and London Victoria, but passengers will be able to travel with Gatwick Express, using Southern’s Super Off-Peak and Kids for £2 fares, which will be eligible on these services.
 

jfisher21

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To be honest the Gatwick Express trains seemed to be empty most of the time anyway whenever I saw them going south early in the morning pre covid, there is not enough to differentiate them from the rest of the service. Everyone was on the thameslink or littlehampton / Eastbourne trains and saving a fortune!
 

BRblue

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313's still working Bognor, Barnham, Littlehampton and Portsmouth and Southsea diagram with no signs of change in the December timetable.
 

700007

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To be honest the Gatwick Express trains seemed to be empty most of the time anyway whenever I saw them going south early in the morning pre covid, there is not enough to differentiate them from the rest of the service. Everyone was on the thameslink or littlehampton / Eastbourne trains and saving a fortune!
I noticed the same observations - the demand to Victoria is quite healthy but could easily be satisfied with an 8 or 12 car train every half an hour. I think there is a market to tap into especially during the summer months to provide 6tph London Bridge to Brighton as this is where all the leisure and entertainment centres are in London
313's still working Bognor, Barnham, Littlehampton and Portsmouth and Southsea diagram with no signs of change in the December timetable.

How many diagrams is that? Only another 3 or so I imagine?
 
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Andy1673

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I noticed the same observations - the demand to Victoria is quite healthy but could easily be satisfied with an 8 or 12 car train every half an hour. I think there is a market to tap into especially during the summer months to provide 6tph London Bridge to Brighton as this is where all the leisure and entertainment centres are in London


How many diagrams is that? Only another 3 or so I imagine?
11 or 12 in total including 4 or 5 for Bognor-Barnham-Litlehampton-Portsmouth
 

Bikeman78

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I noticed the same observations - the demand to Victoria is quite healthy but could easily be satisfied with an 8 or 12 car train every half an hour. I think there is a market to tap into especially during the summer months to provide 6tph London Bridge to Brighton as this is where all the leisure and entertainment centres are in London


How many diagrams is that? Only another 3 or so I imagine?
There used to be 16 diagrams.
Three Brighton to Seaford,
one on the Lewes shuttle, not running at the moment,
one on the Hove shuttle,
three to West Worthing, not running at the moment,
three to Portsmouth Harbour, now class 377s,
five on Littlehampton to Bognor Regis or Portmouth and Southsea.

So I reckon there are nine diagrams for 313s at the moment.
 

Andy1673

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There used to be 16 diagrams.
Three Brighton to Seaford,
one on the Lewes shuttle, not running at the moment,
one on the Hove shuttle,
three to West Worthing, not running at the moment,
three to Portsmouth Harbour, now class 377s,
five on Littlehampton to Bognor Regis or Portmouth and Southsea.

So I reckon there are nine diagrams for 313s at the moment.
It must have been so by now
Class 313

701 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5C02F-2C02-2C07-2C08-2C13-2C14-2C19-2C20-2C25-2C26-2C31-2C32-2C37-

2C38-2C43-2C44-2C49-2C50-2C55-2C56-2C61-2C62-2C67-2C68-2C73-2C74-5C74 Lovers Walk TRSMD

702 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5C02R-5C05-2C05-2C06-2C11-2C12-2C17-2C18-2C23-2C24-2C29-2C30-2C35-

2C36-2C41-2C42-2C47-2C48-2C53-2C54-2C59-2C60-2C65-2C66-2C71-2C72-2C77 BTN ->

703 BTN 5C03-2C03-2C04-2C09-2C10-2C15-2C16-2C21-2C22-2C27-2C28-2C33-2C34-2C39-2C40-2C45-

2C46-2C51-2C52-2C57-2C58-2C63-2C64-2C69-2C70-2C75-5C75 Lovers Walk TRSMD

704 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U04F-2N06-2N07-2N08-2N09-2N10-2N11-2N12-2N13-2N14-2N15-2N16-2N17-

2N18-2N19-2N20-2N21-2N22-2N23-2N24-2N25-2N26-2N27-2N28-2N29-2N30-2N31-2N32-2N33-2N34-2N35-

2N36-2N37-2N38-2N39-2N40-2N41-2N42-2N43-2N44-2N45-2N46-2N47-2N48-2N49-2N50-2N51-2N52-2N53-

2N54-2N55-2N56-2N57-2N58-2N59-2N60-2N61-2N62-2N63-2N64-2N65-2N66-2N67-2N68-2N69-2N70-2N71-

2N72-2N73-5N74 Brighton Wall sdgs ->

705 Brighton Wall sdgs 5N02-2N02-2N03-2N04-2N05-2U06-2U05-5U08F Lovers Walk TRSMD

706 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U04R-2U04-2U03-5U08R Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U63-2U63-

2U76-5K72 Lovers Walk TRSMD

707 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U02-2U02-2U01-2U10-5U10 Lovers Walk TRSMD

708 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5S04-2S00-2S01-2P10-2P67-2P12-2P15-2S12-2S09-2P26-2P75-2P28-2P23-

2S20-2S17-2P42-2P83-2P44-2P31-2S28-2S25-2P58-2P91-2P60-2P39-2P66-2P95-5P95 BOG ->

709 BOG 2P03-2S02-2S03-2P14-2P69-2P16-2P17-2S14-2S11-2P30-2P77-2P32-2P25-2S22-2S19-2P46-2P85-

2P48-2P33-2S30-2S27-2P62-2P93-2P64-2P41-2P68-2P97-2P96-2P45-2P74 BOG ->

710 BOG 5P97-2P98-5P06-2P06-2P65-2P08-2P11-2S08-2S07-2P22-2P73-2P24-2P21-2S18-2S15-2P38-2P81-

2P40-2P29-2S26-2S23-2P54-2P89-2P56-2P37-2S34-2S31-2P70-2P99-5I78 BOG ->

711 BOG 5S94-2S94-5S95-5P10 Littlehampton Shed 5P11 BOG ->

712 BOG 2P07-2S04-2S05-2P18-2P71-2P20-2P19-2S16-2S13-2P34-2P79-2P36-2P27-2S24-2S21-2P50-2P87-

2P52-2P35-2S32-2S29-5S30 Lovers Walk TRSMD

713 spare

714 spare

715 spare

716 spare

717 spare

718 spare

719 spare
 

Bikeman78

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Messages
5,111
It must have been so by now
Class 313

701 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5C02F-2C02-2C07-2C08-2C13-2C14-2C19-2C20-2C25-2C26-2C31-2C32-2C37-

2C38-2C43-2C44-2C49-2C50-2C55-2C56-2C61-2C62-2C67-2C68-2C73-2C74-5C74 Lovers Walk TRSMD

702 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5C02R-5C05-2C05-2C06-2C11-2C12-2C17-2C18-2C23-2C24-2C29-2C30-2C35-

2C36-2C41-2C42-2C47-2C48-2C53-2C54-2C59-2C60-2C65-2C66-2C71-2C72-2C77 BTN ->

703 BTN 5C03-2C03-2C04-2C09-2C10-2C15-2C16-2C21-2C22-2C27-2C28-2C33-2C34-2C39-2C40-2C45-

2C46-2C51-2C52-2C57-2C58-2C63-2C64-2C69-2C70-2C75-5C75 Lovers Walk TRSMD

704 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U04F-2N06-2N07-2N08-2N09-2N10-2N11-2N12-2N13-2N14-2N15-2N16-2N17-

2N18-2N19-2N20-2N21-2N22-2N23-2N24-2N25-2N26-2N27-2N28-2N29-2N30-2N31-2N32-2N33-2N34-2N35-

2N36-2N37-2N38-2N39-2N40-2N41-2N42-2N43-2N44-2N45-2N46-2N47-2N48-2N49-2N50-2N51-2N52-2N53-

2N54-2N55-2N56-2N57-2N58-2N59-2N60-2N61-2N62-2N63-2N64-2N65-2N66-2N67-2N68-2N69-2N70-2N71-

2N72-2N73-5N74 Brighton Wall sdgs ->

705 Brighton Wall sdgs 5N02-2N02-2N03-2N04-2N05-2U06-2U05-5U08F Lovers Walk TRSMD

706 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U04R-2U04-2U03-5U08R Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U63-2U63-

2U76-5K72 Lovers Walk TRSMD

707 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U02-2U02-2U01-2U10-5U10 Lovers Walk TRSMD

708 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5S04-2S00-2S01-2P10-2P67-2P12-2P15-2S12-2S09-2P26-2P75-2P28-2P23-

2S20-2S17-2P42-2P83-2P44-2P31-2S28-2S25-2P58-2P91-2P60-2P39-2P66-2P95-5P95 BOG ->

709 BOG 2P03-2S02-2S03-2P14-2P69-2P16-2P17-2S14-2S11-2P30-2P77-2P32-2P25-2S22-2S19-2P46-2P85-

2P48-2P33-2S30-2S27-2P62-2P93-2P64-2P41-2P68-2P97-2P96-2P45-2P74 BOG ->

710 BOG 5P97-2P98-5P06-2P06-2P65-2P08-2P11-2S08-2S07-2P22-2P73-2P24-2P21-2S18-2S15-2P38-2P81-

2P40-2P29-2S26-2S23-2P54-2P89-2P56-2P37-2S34-2S31-2P70-2P99-5I78 BOG ->

711 BOG 5S94-2S94-5S95-5P10 Littlehampton Shed 5P11 BOG ->

712 BOG 2P07-2S04-2S05-2P18-2P71-2P20-2P19-2S16-2S13-2P34-2P79-2P36-2P27-2S24-2S21-2P50-2P87-

2P52-2P35-2S32-2S29-5S30 Lovers Walk TRSMD

713 spare

714 spare

715 spare

716 spare

717 spare

718 spare

719 spare
Thanks for this. I hadn't spotted that some West Worthing stoppers are still running.
 

Andy1673

Member
Joined
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Thanks for this. I hadn't spotted that some West Worthing stoppers are still running.
you`re welcome )
West Worthing has morning "peak" stoppers and one/two late night services to/form Brighton (don`t know why).
 

BRblue

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Location
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you`re welcome )
West Worthing has morning "peak" stoppers and one/two late night services to/form Brighton (don`t know why).
During the Morning peak the Littlehampton to London Vic's follow their normal stopping pattern... hence the need for the West Worthing shuttles, after the peak they become all stops and effectively take over from the West Worthing's.
The late night ones have always run.
 

700007

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I haven't seen any 387s on the East Coastway? Or do you mean 377s?
It's a mixture of both but mostly in favour of 387s. They tend to run alone (only unit) on the Brighton to Hastings run. It shouldn't take long to see one.
It must have been so by now
Class 313

701 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5C02F-2C02-2C07-2C08-2C13-2C14-2C19-2C20-2C25-2C26-2C31-2C32-2C37-

2C38-2C43-2C44-2C49-2C50-2C55-2C56-2C61-2C62-2C67-2C68-2C73-2C74-5C74 Lovers Walk TRSMD

702 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5C02R-5C05-2C05-2C06-2C11-2C12-2C17-2C18-2C23-2C24-2C29-2C30-2C35-

2C36-2C41-2C42-2C47-2C48-2C53-2C54-2C59-2C60-2C65-2C66-2C71-2C72-2C77 BTN ->

703 BTN 5C03-2C03-2C04-2C09-2C10-2C15-2C16-2C21-2C22-2C27-2C28-2C33-2C34-2C39-2C40-2C45-

2C46-2C51-2C52-2C57-2C58-2C63-2C64-2C69-2C70-2C75-5C75 Lovers Walk TRSMD

704 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U04F-2N06-2N07-2N08-2N09-2N10-2N11-2N12-2N13-2N14-2N15-2N16-2N17-

2N18-2N19-2N20-2N21-2N22-2N23-2N24-2N25-2N26-2N27-2N28-2N29-2N30-2N31-2N32-2N33-2N34-2N35-

2N36-2N37-2N38-2N39-2N40-2N41-2N42-2N43-2N44-2N45-2N46-2N47-2N48-2N49-2N50-2N51-2N52-2N53-

2N54-2N55-2N56-2N57-2N58-2N59-2N60-2N61-2N62-2N63-2N64-2N65-2N66-2N67-2N68-2N69-2N70-2N71-

2N72-2N73-5N74 Brighton Wall sdgs ->

705 Brighton Wall sdgs 5N02-2N02-2N03-2N04-2N05-2U06-2U05-5U08F Lovers Walk TRSMD

706 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U04R-2U04-2U03-5U08R Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U63-2U63-

2U76-5K72 Lovers Walk TRSMD

707 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5U02-2U02-2U01-2U10-5U10 Lovers Walk TRSMD

708 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5S04-2S00-2S01-2P10-2P67-2P12-2P15-2S12-2S09-2P26-2P75-2P28-2P23-

2S20-2S17-2P42-2P83-2P44-2P31-2S28-2S25-2P58-2P91-2P60-2P39-2P66-2P95-5P95 BOG ->

709 BOG 2P03-2S02-2S03-2P14-2P69-2P16-2P17-2S14-2S11-2P30-2P77-2P32-2P25-2S22-2S19-2P46-2P85-

2P48-2P33-2S30-2S27-2P62-2P93-2P64-2P41-2P68-2P97-2P96-2P45-2P74 BOG ->

710 BOG 5P97-2P98-5P06-2P06-2P65-2P08-2P11-2S08-2S07-2P22-2P73-2P24-2P21-2S18-2S15-2P38-2P81-

2P40-2P29-2S26-2S23-2P54-2P89-2P56-2P37-2S34-2S31-2P70-2P99-5I78 BOG ->

711 BOG 5S94-2S94-5S95-5P10 Littlehampton Shed 5P11 BOG ->

712 BOG 2P07-2S04-2S05-2P18-2P71-2P20-2P19-2S16-2S13-2P34-2P79-2P36-2P27-2S24-2S21-2P50-2P87-

2P52-2P35-2S32-2S29-5S30 Lovers Walk TRSMD

713 spare

714 spare

715 spare

716 spare

717 spare

718 spare

719 spare
I didn't realise the West Coastway still had quite a number of diagrams operated by 313s. I haven't been down that way (past Worthing) since pre lockdown to be fair but they have almost been eradicated from Brighton bar the Seaford services.
 

Andy1673

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I haven't seen any 387s on the East Coastway? Or do you mean 377s?
Three single 387s operate the half East Coastway Brighton-Hastings-Ore services as below

060 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5G05-2G10-1G13-2G22-1G25-2G34-1G37-2G46-1G49-2G58-1G61-2G70-2G75 BTN ->
061 BTN 2G00-5G07-2G07-1G16-2G19-1G28-2G31-1G40-2G43-1G52-2G55-1G64-2G67-1G76-5G67 Eastbourne sdgs ->
062 Eastbourne sdgs 5G06-2G06-1G09-2G18-1G21-2G30-1G33-2G42-1G45-2G54-1G57-2G66-2G71-5G72 Lovers Walk TRSMD

Other three diagrams are 377s
 

ValleyLines142

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Location
Gloucester
Three single 387s operate the half East Coastway Brighton-Hastings-Ore services as below

060 Lovers Walk TRSMD 5G05-2G10-1G13-2G22-1G25-2G34-1G37-2G46-1G49-2G58-1G61-2G70-2G75 BTN ->
061 BTN 2G00-5G07-2G07-1G16-2G19-1G28-2G31-1G40-2G43-1G52-2G55-1G64-2G67-1G76-5G67 Eastbourne sdgs ->
062 Eastbourne sdgs 5G06-2G06-1G09-2G18-1G21-2G30-1G33-2G42-1G45-2G54-1G57-2G66-2G71-5G72 Lovers Walk TRSMD

Other three diagrams are 377s

Well bugger me, I never knew that. I'm actually going to Brighton for a few days once England lockdown is over. I'll have to look out for one!
 
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