Rail staff dont deserve to be abused by Customers like i have seen..

[northernrail2009]

I do not work on the Railways but use them a lot and yesterday Thursday my blood boiled seeing a Northern rail guard being abused by some low life person.

I got onto the 18.21 Macclesfield to Manchester service and there was a guy sat with feet on seat drinking from a can of larger and you could just tell he did not have a ticket he stood out from the crowd big time.

so the train guard and checked tickets just after leaving Macclesfield and he got to this chap and asked for his ticket and at 1st played like he didnt hear the guard so again the guard asked for his ticket and he gave the guard a ticket from Manchester to Congleton dated Wednesday so the guard said no he would like to see the right ticket and if not he would have to buy a ticket and then this is when this person kicked off and abused the guard with his gob telling the guard he was a F---ing fat **** and really being nasty to him to that the guard told him he was going to be kicked of at the next station unless he stopped his mouth and paid for his ticket.

so he kept on and then paid for he ticket but then said he got on a Macclesfield which he did not as i got on there and he was on the train sat down when i got on.

so as he kept mouthing of at the poor guard he told this person he would be met by police at Manchester but not sure if that happened as i got of before then and i tweeted northern about it but they did not seen that bothered which makes me think they dont really give a dam about there staff being abused like i had seen yesterday.

i really hope this guy was met by police at Manchester as no person should put up with the crap that came out of his gob.

The guard i though handled it very well and hope his bosses will see that but fear they wont.

Rant over

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Thanks for the support!

Unfortunately we are faced with this kind of attitude and abuse almost on a daily basis, and i think standards of behaviour has declined sharply within the last 5 years. There is no "typical" individual although some people just cannot help but conform to the stereotype their demographic attracts to themselves and these people can often be spotted a mile off! Usually drink or drugs are involved but still can lead to potentially distressing situations for the frontline staff involved.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Agreed. Such people should be at the very least, sterilised so that their line is not perpetuated. As a society, we are way, way too soft.

 

[yorkie]

.... but they did not seen that bothered which makes me think they dont really give a dam about there staff being abused...

Indeed. I boarded a train at Walsden recently, where a passenger was removed from the train for being abusive. Other passengers told us it was really bad, including racial abuse, but the Guard handled it really well. Apparently the individual is a known regular but nothing is ever done about it. That's not right!

Unfortunately some people enjoy dishing out abuse and they don't care who the target is; they certainly don't respect anyone in any position of authority. That said, some people in a position of authority can be the ones dishing out foul or threatening language too, including some STM contractors who represent Northern.

It's not a railway problem; it's a problem with some people in our society generally and there isn't much that we can do to stop them sadly. I think anyone in a 'customer-facing' role will have experienced at least verbal abuse on at least some occasions.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

... As a society, we are way, way too soft.

We are indeed. And it starts when they're young; assaulting someone at a school is unlikely to be anything more than an exclusion for a week. By the time they're adults they know they're almost untouchable and they know that people in a position of authority can't do much and can get sacked if they swear back in frustration or touch them.

 

[work-traveller]

I was on a tram in Manchester a few years ago on a hot summers day. Mid afternoon heading into Piccadilly from Altrincham. There were delays for some reason that day, but we were all being stoically British about it.

Except for one chap. I'll give a neutral description:

• Shaved head
• Teeth missing
• Shirtless
• Big tattoos
• Open can of lager in hand
• Half eaten kebab in hand

The chap then started shouting (to nobody in particular) how 'f@cking ****e the tram is, always f@cking late...etc'. This went on for a while until he dropped his punchline 'still - not like I bought a ticket'.

 

[Carntyne]

It does get you down some days when you get a lot. Just need to try and deal with it the best you can.

 

[Bodiddly]

I have a solution that would solve two problems at once. Remove this low life scum element who have probably never worked a day in their life and resettle thoroughly decent Syrian refugees who would die for the chance to better their lives. I am sick to the back teeth listening to horrible, nasty individuals moaning about how life owes them a living. I have some real concerns about how public facing staff will have to deal with more and more instances of abuse as the social fabric of this country erodes further and further. This abuse is starting at a very early age as schools have lost their ability to punish bad behaviour with more and more parents making complaints because their little Johnny was given a ticking off for punching someone.
Discipline starts in the home but all to often the parents are incapable or absent. I'm certainly not saying we should go back to the days of discipline with violence, no way but people have to be made accountable for their selfish actions.
Rant over!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have a solution that would solve two problems at once. Remove this low life scum element who have probably never worked a day in their life and resettle thoroughly decent Syrian refugees who would die for the chance to better their lives.

Along those lines, it is very notable how Polish migrants moving into what were classically considered bad areas of some towns and cities have substantially *raised* the tone of those areas.

 

[ComUtoR]

Whilst I don't like being sworn at or verbally abused and neither do I find the watch tappers amusing I do understand their frustrations.

 

[bb21]

Along those lines, it is very notable how Polish migrants moving into what were classically considered bad areas of some towns and cities have substantially *raised* the tone of those areas.

Careful, you lot are going to upset many people.

I try and stay out of discussions on topics of this nature otherwise I can get myself into lots of trouble.

I will just say that I agree with most of you.

 

[Clip]

Ive no idea how the hell foreign nationals have got brought into this but I must say its never nice to be abused by anyone especially your passengers but apparently 'They pay my wages' so some think anything goes. And normally they get short shrift as well when Im at my mainline terminus

 

[broadgage]

Whilst it is pleasing to dream of sterilising such low lives, or removing them from the country, realistically this is not going to happen.

The best that we can hope for is that public pressure will result in SLIGHTLY more effective police action, and SLIGHTLY less lenient sentences being imposed by the courts.

It would be unrealistic to expect to catch them all, you cant have a police officer on each train/tram/bus, or even within ready travelling distance. A more robust approach by the police and the courts to those that DO get caught would have a deterrent effect.

A growing problem is that those who appear to be ill behaved drunken yobs, suddenly become "vulnerable" once arrested and are not offered sufficient care for "the mental and physical health issues that they face".

Occasionally such persons violently resist arrest and it can take considerable force to subdue and confine them. On very rare occasions they die in police custody. Inquiries into deaths are hugely expensive and damaging to the future prospects of those police officers involved.

 

[Antman]

Ive no idea how the hell foreign nationals have got brought into this but I must say its never nice to be abused by anyone especially your passengers but apparently 'They pay my wages' so some think anything goes. And normally they get short shrift as well when Im at my mainline terminus

No I don't know how foreign nationals were brought into this but some of them can be just as bad, a group of Eastern Europeans at Bromley South recently who were somewhat the worse for alcohol one of whom urinates on the platform despite the fact a toilet was available, police were called (the nick is next door) and he was lead away in handcuffs whilst the rest were warned about their behaviour.

I think it is only a small minority of passengers who are abusive to staff and I think it has to be said that the attitude of a small minority of staff leaves something to be desired

 

[bb21]

No I don't know how foreign nationals were brought into this but some of them can be just as bad, a group of Eastern Europeans at Bromley South recently who were somewhat the worse for alcohol one of whom urinates on the platform despite the fact a toilet was available, police were called (the nick is next door) and he was lead away in handcuffs whilst the rest were warned about their behaviour.

I think it is only a small minority of passengers who are abusive to staff and I think it has to be said that the attitude of a small minority of staff leaves something to be desired

There are always hard-working and conscientious ones and idiots in any group. That cannot be denied. Although I think Neil makes an interesting observation which is probably true in selected cases, for example, where I live.

 

[DarloRich]

Of course staff shouldn't face abuse - but they do and whilst it is very easy simply to blame the more chavvy (aka poorer) sections of society it may shake several posters views to know that the worse abuse i have seen and experienced (in my limited ops experience) is from what appear to be very well off professional individuals.

 

[LowLevel]

My personal and very unofficial opinion is I should be allowed to take one pot shot at burying my t key in the back of their eye socket and doing society a favour.

However unfortunately for some reason they 'have rights'. I'd kill all the slack jawed deadbeats off in a heart beat if it was up to me.

 

[grumblingalong]

Called a jobsworth f*****g b*****d by a suited and booted commuter today trying to load his bike just as we were about to leave.

There is no stereotype, I find older people who should know better are often the worst. Dare ask them for their senior railcard.....

 

[Antman]

My personal and very unofficial opinion is I should be allowed to take one pot shot at burying my t key in the back of their eye socket and doing society a favour.

However unfortunately for some reason they 'have rights'. I'd kill all the slack jawed deadbeats off in a heart beat if it was up to me.

Hmmmm, very diplomatic!

 

[stut]

Am curious - do frontline staff get training and support in how to deal with this kind of abuse?

Never worked on the railways, but have done public-facing roles before, so I do sympathise. However, if we accept that some abuse is inevitable (it shouldn't be, but this is a practical observation, not a judgment) then how do you rise above the low-level stuff (while keeping yourself safe)?

I know that, on the most basic level, you can remind yourself that outbursts, in the most part, are triggered by something else, not you. They don't know you, so they can't verbally attack you personally - they are venting at your role. So you let it drift across you, and get to the core of the message, if there is any. Of course this is all easier said than done.

But I'd be interested in the level of support that railway staff get. It's rather more intensive than many other public-facing roles, with confined spaces, unsociable hours, and many potential things to go wrong.

 

[LowLevel]

I did say it was a totally unofficial opinion When you see the same human wreckage doing the same thing day after day while acting like they own the place it's hard to stay disaffected. I genuinely think we'd be better off without them. If someone starts on me for doing my job I should at the very least have the right to return fire. If someone was ever daft enough to physically assault me I have no idea what would happen.

I'm not talking about ****ed off people when the service has let them down, just the ones who don't want to play by the niceties of civilised society.

In practice I'm sure I'd do what we all do with junk like this - let them get on with it rather than dealing with them because it's easier and it's what I'm paid to do.

It doesn't make the frustration any easier to deal with though.

 

[bb21]

Of course staff shouldn't face abuse - but they do and whilst it is very easy simply to blame the more chavvy (aka poorer) sections of society it may shake several posters views to know that the worse abuse i have seen and experienced (in my limited ops experience) is from what appear to be very well off professional individuals.

Funny that I saw one this morning on the train because the First Class host dared to make the mistake of dropping a piece of bacon on his shiny shoes.

When he started boasting about his salary I couldn't help but tell him exactly what he should do with his £100k a year.

Got a mouthful of abuse as a result but so worth it seeing his face when he realized what an obnoxious twit he is and that some people will not put up with his attitude.

 

[craigybagel]

All just part of a days work. It's sad that we have to be blasé about it but if you took the abuse personally then you wouldn't last 5 minutes. One thing that did surprise me as a guard though is that in general you get much less abuse than you do as platform staff, even though you take a much more active role in revenue protection - or at least that's how things turned out for me.

Tomorrow though Im due to bring the fans of a well known football team both to and from their match, so I might be missing the platforms on that shift.....

 

[Tetchytyke]

A growing problem is that those who appear to be ill behaved drunken yobs, suddenly become "vulnerable" once arrested and are not offered sufficient care for "the mental and physical health issues that they face".

And the problem is that often these people appear as ill-behaved drunken yobs because of mental health issues.

IME- a different sector but just as public-facing- it's usually the suited and booted ones who are the worst. The narcissists and the sociopaths who are "don't you know what I earn/who I am" are some of the absolute worst people to deal with. I much preferred working with the stereotypical council estaters than those self-entitled halfwits.

Generally speaking it is best to be exceptionally nice to people like that, they can't stand it.

 

[DarloRich]

And the problem is that often these people appear as ill-behaved drunken yobs because of mental health issues.

IME- a different sector but just as public-facing- it's usually the suited and booted ones who are the worst. The narcissists and the sociopaths who are "don't you know what I earn/who I am" are some of the absolute worst people to deal with. I much preferred working with the stereotypical council estaters than those self-entitled halfwits.

Generally speaking it is best to be exceptionally nice to people like that, they can't stand it.

I do believe that a lot of them have reached an employment position where they are accustomed to giving orders and having those orders followed (without question for fear of being dismissed) and can not abide the thought that some mere "pleb" working in a station/train would have the gall to insist THEY obey orders!

 

[CharlieSpotted]

And the problem is that often these people appear as ill-behaved drunken yobs because of mental health issues.

IME- a different sector but just as public-facing- it's usually the suited and booted ones who are the worst. The narcissists and the sociopaths who are "don't you know what I earn/who I am" are some of the absolute worst people to deal with. I much preferred working with the stereotypical council estaters than those self-entitled halfwits.

Generally speaking it is best to be exceptionally nice to people like that, they can't stand it.

Absolutely. I've been in customer-facing frontline roles in the past, and I always found that a "yes, sir", "thank you, sir" style, topped off with a cheery American "Have a great day!" as they leave is absolutely the best way to deal with them.


Youthful experience of bar work also taught me that drunks (particularly solo) are generally pretty easy to deal with. You already have an advantage over them in being sober - you just need to outsmart them!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

On 17th August I was on the 16.54 from Waterloo to Epsom; departure was delayed about 5 minutes while staff removed a drunk and disorderly woman who looked to be in her 60s from the rear carriage.

The language she came out with which led to her removal ( and subsequently aimed at the staff and a bloke who I imagine must have been her long suffering husband ) during her removal was strong enough that even some men re-positioned themselves further along the carriage even before the staff arrived to eject her.

 

[grumblingalong]

"Don't you know who I am?" "Yes sir you're a passenger on MY train"

 

[Llanigraham]

And it isn't only "on-train" staff who get abuse. Try running a signalbox that overlooks a level crossing and is the main access to a golf club!! Some people are amazed I have the audacity to drop the barriers for a train.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Just to reiterate my earlier comment, there is no stereotypical abusive individual as it can come from anyone at anytime. 98% of it will be down to a ticketing issue, or delays or behaviour through drink or drugs. I have even been given abuse by staff travelling on their priveledge passes, but at least the threat of the loss of that pass is a very effective weapon to encourage them to back down.

What i must also add is some people cannot help but behave in a manner associated with the stereotype they fit in to, which only reinforces peoples belief in the reputation associated with that stereotype to be correct. As always its a minority few that tarnish the demographic for the majority. And there are stereotypes right across the colourful spectrum of society. We all do it, we are all guilty of pigeon-holeing, but thats how we understand the world around us

 

[Saint66]

Sadly, staff in all jobs which are customer facing, in all industries, get use to this sort of abuse, and I'd wager that railway staff suffer more than most.

Even in my first job at the age of 17, as a member of staff at a supermarket, I was collecting trolley's in the car park, when all of a sudden, a gentleman came up to me and started swearing and screaming at me because someone had parked in a disabled bay without a disabled badge. Sure, that person should not have parked there, but what am I, a 17 year old, in a high vis jacket, pushing trolley's around, meant to do about it?

A small minority always let down the majority.