Rail staff using whistles

[Urban Gateline]

Evening all, this could well possibly be the weirdest question...!

What are the implications of non-dispatch staff from the same TOC using a whistle to hurry passengers boarding the train? Would you get in trouble for doing this or is it seen as helpful?

 

[scotsman]

Evening all, this could well possibly be the weirdest question...!

What are the implications of non-dispatch staff from the same TOC using a whistle to hurry passengers boarding the train? Would you get in trouble for doing this or is it seen as helpful?

A whistle has no meaning, any staff who took it as a signal to start the despatch sequence are a danger to the railway.

However, despatch staff might get annoyed at someone, in their opinion, trying to do their job or just plain confusing them!

 

[185]

When I was a manager, I was stood next to a guard who had asked me to blow a whistle to hurry passengers up, who were all queueing for one door at Piccadilly . .. A Northern rail platform staff despatcher also stood next to me, reported me, I got hauled in - but subsequently, the Northern Rail contract for despatch was later ripped up, and farmed out to poxy minimum wage paying contractors Carlyle Facilities.

Idiots like that are doing themselves out of a job.

 

[CarterUSM]

As far as my role goes, the whistle signifies that the power operated doors are about to be closed. Indeed, in the unlikely (?) event of hustle alarm failure, the whistle should be used as a replacement for it.

 

[merlodlliw]

In BR days the whistle signified the train was about to leave, and acted as a warning for non passengers to get off the train,or so I presumed, the driver only took notice of the guards green.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

A whistle means nothing in railway terms - it is only a warning that something is about to happen, or something is happening.

 

[Aictos]

There is no need for non safety critical staff to even be using a whistle, indeed if you're referring to on board staff then there's no need to get off at intermediate stations - the only person on a platform who should be using a whistle is the dispatcher who is dispatching the train to warn people that the doors are about to be closed and to give the right away to the guard or if the hustle alarm has failed then for either the driver or the guard to use a whistle instead.

As for DOO services, I agree that drivers ought to have whistles if they want them to use when self dispatching.

I would not consider non safety critical staff using a whistle to hurry up passengers being helpful - it's not in their brief to do so and if something were to happen then it would be the safety critical staff who would be hauled in for questioning not the non safety critical staff.

 

[pemma]

I've seen Northern conductors using them when whatever makes the beeping when the doors close is broken.

 

[175001]

I use it as stations such as Wigan Wallgate and Deansgate where the platform curves which hinders my vision and it warns any stragglers that I'm about to shut the doors

 

[barrykas]

From a Rule Book point of view (Module SS1), the whistle should ONLY be used by the person in charge of the platform or the guard to supplement the READY-TO-START signal.

Given how much whistle blowing you get on the railway these days, if Drivers followed that rule as written, the network would very quickly grind to a halt, with people being taken off the job left, right and centre for "dispatch incidents".

Cheers,

Barry

 

[- Cal -]

From a Rule Book point of view (Module SS1), the whistle should ONLY be used by the person in charge of the platform or the guard to supplement the READY-TO-START signal.

Given how much whistle blowing you get on the railway these days, if Drivers followed that rule as written, the network would very quickly grind to a halt, with people being taken off the job left, right and centre for "dispatch incidents".

Cheers,

Barry

Where does it say that, I couldn't find it :roll:, what page?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

SS1 only says:

You can use a whistle to supplement the READY-TO-START signal.

It doesn't say it is only for use by dispatch staff, or that it has any special meaning.

 

[merlodlliw]

There is no need for non safety critical staff to even be using a whistle, indeed if you're referring to on board staff then there's no need to get off at intermediate stations - the only person on a platform who should be using a whistle is the dispatcher who is dispatching the train to warn people that the doors are about to be closed and to give the right away to the guard or if the hustle alarm has failed then for either the driver or the guard to use a whistle instead.

As for DOO services, I agree that drivers ought to have whistles if they want them to use when self dispatching.

I would not consider non safety critical staff using a whistle to hurry up passengers being helpful - it's not in their brief to do so and if something were to happen then it would be the safety critical staff who would be hauled in for questioning not the non safety critical staff.

Many stations do not have dispatchers, is the job new copied from the USA. Out of interest.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I use it as stations such as Wigan Wallgate and Deansgate where the platform curves which hinders my vision and it warns any stragglers that I'm about to shut the doors

Well put, alerting the customers.

 

[Clip]

WAGN staff used to blow for all their life years ago at the cross - just to get people to hurry up and get on board late at night.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Platform despatch staff can blow their whistle all they want but I don't close any doors until they give me the 'Station Work Complete' signal. Nevertheless, anybody using a whistle on the platforms (except despatch staff) presents a safety risk (albeit negligible) and I would advise against it. It is quite possible that on a busy platform a guard who is in a bit of a rush to get away may take that additional whistle as a signal to close the doors before it is safe to do so.

99.9% of us act professionally at all times but we need to mitigate against that small percentage that can sometimes be slapdash.

 

[jon0844]

WAGN staff used to blow for all their life years ago at the cross - just to get people to hurry up and get on board late at night.

FCC still does and it works!

For a while, FCC tried to close doors early even at night (when there may be an hour until the next service, or it IS the last service) to ensure the wheels were rolling at nn:00, but now they're back to whistling like crazy to get people to run.

And, if there's only one train leaving King's Cross every 10-20 minutes, they'll let a train leave a few seconds late (even a minute in extreme cases I've seen) if necessary - perhaps because someone can't run.

The train will probably make up that time by the time it gets to Finsbury Park so it obviously isn't considered a problem. During the day/peak, it clearly would be impossible!

 

[Clip]

FCC still does and it works!

For a while, FCC tried to close doors early even at night (when there may be an hour until the next service, or it IS the last service) to ensure the wheels were rolling at nn:00, but now they're back to whistling like crazy to get people to run.

And, if there's only one train leaving King's Cross every 10-20 minutes, they'll let a train leave a few seconds late (even a minute in extreme cases I've seen) if necessary - perhaps because someone can't run.

The train will probably make up that time by the time it gets to Finsbury Park so it obviously isn't considered a problem. During the day/peak, it clearly would be impossible!

Been a while since i went back to the suburban platforms so wasnt sure if they still done it. Your right though it works well - Chris(is he still there) used to stand on plat 8 by the passageway and blow like mad for the late runners at night used to hold it for a little while too and make sure they got on.

 

[jon0844]

I suppose it may vary depending on who is on duty, but I've not seen a train leave people behind unless the CD had already been given. Once that has happened, there's presumably no easy way to get a driver to re-open the doors as s/he waits for the RA.

I suppose you could wait until the driver looks out to see what's going on, but that would likely mean a big delay. The fact is, a dispatcher will wait until people have boarded (and sometimes shout to say 'get on the nearest set of doors' as someone thinks they'll run to the front!) before giving the CD - but can't wait forever. It's nice when a train is at, say, platform 11a and people don't realise they have to run about 80-90 metres to get to the first set of doors!

 

[Clip]

Ive seen it happen at the cross - they just make the CD flash on and off and the doors open up again but not often and only late at night. Nice to hold it if its the last one out though as we didnt like having to turf them out when the station closed cos you felt dead mean doing so!

 

[merlodlliw]

Platform despatch staff can blow their whistle all they want but I don't close any doors until they give me the 'Station Work Complete' signal. Nevertheless, anybody using a whistle on the platforms (except despatch staff) presents a safety risk (albeit negligible) and I would advise against it. It is quite possible that on a busy platform a guard who is in a bit of a rush to get away may take that additional whistle as a signal to close the doors before it is safe to do so.

99.9% of us act professionally at all times but we need to mitigate against that small percentage that can sometimes be slapdash.

99.9% is an impressive statement to make.

Bob

 

[BestWestern]

South West Trains require their Guards to blow a whistle before closing the doors at every station, regardless of who is or isn't about to board the train. The departure of an FGW HST frequently involves an orgy of whistle blowing, often with a two dispatchers and the Guard all whistling merrily away!

 

[island]

There's a hell of a lot of whistle-blowing goes on on the SET platforms at [stn]LBG[/stn] during the peak.

 

[Mojo]

Many stations do not have dispatchers, is the job new copied from the USA. Out of interest.

As I understand it, in the USA a train dispatcher (or despatcher) is a cross between what we would call a controller and a signaller, and the jobs aren't at all similar.

The job is not a new job either.

 

[Aictos]

Been a while since i went back to the suburban platforms so wasnt sure if they still done it. Your right though it works well - Chris(is he still there) used to stand on plat 8 by the passageway and blow like mad for the late runners at night used to hold it for a little while too and make sure they got on.

Yes, he's still there

 

[317666]

At Liverpool Street, and probably at other locations too, there are bells that ring when a train is ready to leave. At least I think that's what they mean.

 

[Bon Accord]

317666,
There most certainly were 'arrival' bells at Stations to forewarn staff of arriving trains.

 

[rail-britain]

What are the implications of non-dispatch staff from the same TOC using a whistle to hurry passengers boarding the train? Would you get in trouble for doing this or is it seen as helpful?

I've never seen that done before
Such staff would probably be classed as passengers so should not be directly involved

When I worked with InterCity the use of whistles was more common where the platform was not straight and the train was so long that the staff did not have direct line of sight of each other
That way all the members of staff were aware the ready to start procedure had commenced
Typically one member of staff would have the whistle and was either at the centre of the train or closest to the RA button

 

[simonm]

They do it all the time at Reading to get people to hurry up. Then the "usual" sequence of whistles for dispatch starts.