Rail Staging site not showing freight or charter services

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tsr

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Ah, never realised that Tom's website is called that... :oops:

Has he given way to the same pressure that got Peter Hicks of Open Train Times?

1. It isn't - it's Timetables 2, which is in beta - thus hosted in a "Staging" (i.e. testing/temporary/experimental) directory.

2. It seems like it, but hopefully not!
 

Poggs

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The only 'pressure' I was under for freight schedules was my own sense of doing-the-right-thing. Charters were another matter.

I have no clear answer from Network Rail yet - understandably, they are a big organisation and therefore don't move as quickly as I'd like.

Tom and I discussed freight times last night, and we've decided to keep them off both Tom's site and OpenTrainTimes for the time being - although both of us have the data from Network Rail. I am in the process of contacting numerous people to get the 'official' line.

Whilst this may be inconvenient, we both firmly believe it's the right thing to do.
 

lyndhurst25

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"Pressure" over charter timings? From who? Do tell ....;)

Hope that the freight and charter data can be fixed soon. I'm not sure what the objections are to the timings being in the public domain (nuclear/MoD/Royal trains excepted) - just look at all the ship AIS and aircraft location sites out there. Why should trains be any different?

Doubly gutted as my task for the day was to download the daily WTT schedules from Trainetimes2 for the line that passes my work window.:(

Contacting numerous people might not be the way to go. The more people you ask, the more chance one of them will say no!
 

Poggs

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"Pressure" over charter timings? From who? Do tell ....;)

I agreed not to discuss it, but some people immediately noticed which TOCs timings stopped appearing on the site.

Hope that the freight and charter data can be fixed soon. I'm not sure what the objections are to the timings being in the public domain (nuclear/MoD/Royal trains excepted) - just look at all the ship AIS and aircraft location sites out there. Why should trains be any different?

Ships and aircraft broadcast their location for any recipient - it's a different situation to rail.

It's not that there are objections to schedules being out in the open (public domain is a different thing), more that there are no clear guidelines on what to show and what not to show.

Contacting numerous people might not be the way to go. The more people you ask, the more chance one of them will say no!

Given the way I've managed to get visibility of open rail data right up to DfT level - some of it networking, some of it luck, and some just plain hard work - I think my plan of action is the right one. 18 months ago, I didn't even think *I* could get legitimate access to Network Rail's real-time systems, and now - as a result of challenging the status quo - they're going to be opened up for everyone.
 

tsr

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Open Train Times primary purpose isn't.

It's very useful when it does though - seeing freight workings, standard passenger services and charter workings all in that format together is a useful tool, and I really hope you get a clear answer and don't have to wait too long for a decision about non-passenger/ECS services.
 

tcm1106

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Hopefully they'll be back on both soon and we'll all know the official answer on freight schedules.
Just out of interest, who is your contact at NR mate? I work in Network Rail Information Management (IT basically) and a number of my colleagues are involved with data transparency and information governance. I'd be interested to know who you've been speaking with and if I can help...


 

nedchester

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Is there a way of accessing the data that all the websites have used and installing it and setting up your own site or application?

I assume that open data means just that, open data.
 

Tomnick

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The aforementioned sites showed freight paths, or at least did (and hopefully will again soon). They won't tell you whether a train is likely to run in a given path though - there are no end of unused freight paths each day. That's where Freightmaster comes in! I'm not a subscriber, as I've got no use for the information - but I gather it's a useful resource if that is what you're after, and will give you a good idea of what will actually run on a given day. Too expensive? Don't pay for it then - I don't think you'll find such a comprehensive source of information anywhere else!
 

Tomnick

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It is - but I'd imagine the amount of effort required to work out what actually runs when is quite large. You get what you pay for!
 

ralphchadkirk

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Is there a way of accessing the data that all the websites have used and installing it and setting up your own site or application?

I assume that open data means just that, open data.

Passenger timetables are available at http://data.atoc.org. I know Poggs has access to quite a few NR systems that aren't currently open to all, but I don't know where Tom gets his data from.
 

ANDYS

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For what it is worth, I hope both OTT and the Staging site get the freight/charter details back on ASAP. They are both excellent sites and their creators must be congratulated on the hard work they have put in. Freightmaster is excellent for what it is and I have often bought the books over the years. However, I have never bought the online version of Freightmaster as I often have too much of other things to keep me busy (family/friends/work) to make it worthwhile.

This is where the two websites really come in useful. If I suddenly find I am free on a Tuesday and have time to get away I can quickly look at these sites, print off what I need and have a full list of everything which may appear. I know the freight paths are not often used and I account for this. I have no more leaving two minutes before the best working of the day comes around the corner and equally no more hanging on for five minutes just in case.

It does seem strange that in these days of open info, I can identify any ship or plane that I see within seconds but I cannot do this with trains.

Hoping for a swift and positive outcome to this lack of openess, Andy S
 

Freightmaster

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But £80 for the year is Quite Expensive though
Not much more than a tank of petrol these days!! :)

However, I realise that an £80 annual charge would put potential subscribers off,
which is why I provide the option to subscribe for Summer/Winter periods of
six months at a time as a more affordable option, which around 60% of new
subscribers go for...


For info, current prices are as follows:

- access through to the end of September 2012 = £44

- access through to the end of March 2013 = £69


Cheap as chips!! :lol:


MARK
 

Poggs

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For what it is worth, I hope both OTT and the Staging site get the freight/charter details back on ASAP. They are both excellent sites and their creators must be congratulated on the hard work they have put in.

Thank you :) OTT is a vehicle for creating change - for showing it can be done, for inspiring others.

It does seem strange that in these days of open info, I can identify any ship or plane that I see within seconds but I cannot do this with trains.

That's because ships and planes broadcast their location - trains don't. You're not comparing apples with apples - but I understand what you're saying.
 
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