Rail strikes discussion

[LNW-GW Joint]

And MerseyRail who receive no government funding are discussing a far better pay increase all because Shapps isn't involved thank goodness

I'm pretty sure Merseytravel (who manage the Merseyrail concession) do receive government funding.
Unlike DfT operations funding is routed in a different way to the local authority (as with Scotrail, TfW and TfL) and the Liverpool City Region.
Merseyrail infrastructure is not devolved, it's still part of Mr Shapps' Network Rail, which is why no trains are running on RMT strike days.

 

[Philip]

What message would that be then?

Suppose, if by some miracle, the RMT negotiators manage to achieve all of their stated aims presumably you would vote to continue the strike unless the government agreed to a similar settlement for all public sector workers if you are striking for the good of all?

I meant in solidarity with other railway colleagues - workers within the same industry. What happens in other industries isn't our business.

 

[Shrop]

So therefore other sectors have to just wait to be p***ed on do they? Other unions being toothless and scared of strike action is hardly the RMTs concern.

Not a good attitude. It sounds like you're saying the strikers are motivated only by their own situations and don't give a damn about anyone else because that's up to them. That will alienate the public, which is not a good move.

 

[Enthusiast]

Probably. To be honest I don't even want to retire particularly, I'd rather have some purpose to my day rather than "pottering" or whatever it is people do.

Most retired people do not "potter." They simply spend their day doing what they want to do instead of having to do something that somebody else demands of them. Many are busier (and have just as much "purpose") after retirement than they ever were before and if you ask them, many will tell you they wonder how they ever found the time to go to work!

 

[startingaparty]

So... what happens now? Does anyone think there will be another 3 day strike called on Monday?

 

[High Dyke]

That is a sweeping generalisation to make, and inaccurate at that. Many workers in my grade are striking in solidarity with colleagues or to make a statement to the government, rather than because they think it will lead to better pay and conditions.

Someone has to open the door of opportunity. It's how many follow that is important. In that narrative, it just happens to be that the RMT have taken the first step. Other trade unions could do exactly the same for the people they represent, if they're in a similar situation.

 

[bramling]

I doubt it. I'm not sure that any strand of the Tory party favours bigger public sector pay rises.

It may well become the case that the party, as opposed to the leadership, realise they can’t keep pee-ing people off, especially as thoughts turn towards the next election which is now in sights. A quick resolution to this could be judged to be worthwhile, especially as many observers seem to be forming a view that this has been provoked by the government - especially with Lynch putting on good solid media performances on a constant basis. I don’t find Shapps come over particularly well at the best of times.

The snag is of course that a decent resolution here opens up the floodgate for other elements of the public sector.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

With the Conservative Party getting weaker and weaker every day, will this make matters easier for the RMT when negotiating a deal for the current dispute?

C4 news did an interview with BoJo tonight didn't want to talk about by elections but happy to go on a rant about rail workers causing chaos and outdated working practices

 

[HL7]

C4 news did an interview with BoJo tonight didn't want to talk about by elections but happy to go on a rant about rail workers causing chaos and outdated working practices

It seems that everyone, even the PM, is obsessed by walking time.

 

[SynthD]

I doubt it. I'm not sure that any strand of the Tory party favours bigger public sector pay rises.

None of them do, but they need to be seen to get the country going again. All of the options for a new leader will continue to cause unions to be more popular so it doesn’t matter which it is in the medium term. The negotiations might get rushed for good PR in the unions favour if someone wants to keep known as a mess firmly in Johnson and Sunak’s camp.

So... what happens now? Does anyone think there will be another 3 day strike called on Monday?

The Birmingham games start in 33 days. That’s more visible.

 

[LOL The Irony]

The Birmingham games start in 33 days. That’s more visible.

To be honest, this waiting until the Commonwealth Games thing requires the rmt to have learned from the whole Southern and Northern DOO fiasco, where they wound up flushing any goodwill they had down the toilet. So excuse me if I'm a little concerned about next week.

 

[Trainfan061193]

The Birmingham games start in 33 days. That’s more visible.

Yes you'd think they'd want to target that.

 

[BrokenSam]

The reality is that most people who strike are only in it for themselves. Now you can't blame them, that's what strikes are for, to improve your own conditions.

But it belies the fact that for all Mick Lynch calls this a fight for the working class, it really isn't. And it certainly isn't to improve the railway!

It is a dispute about pay, conditions and redundancies - no more or less than that. Any repercussions are merely an unfortunate side effect, as far as both sides are concerned.

This is just nonsense and borders on offensive to me. It might be the attitude for yourself but I can assure you that safety matters a great deal to my colleagues and I.

 

[onlinespotting]

Ironically Wedgwood and barlaston are getting a normal service - the Hanley - Stoke - Stone replacement bus is showing on the departure boards at sot

 

[Snow1964]

The Birmingham games start in 33 days. That’s more visible.

A militant would think that would be good idea as high profile

Everyone else would see it as idiotic, because it will lose goodwill with the public. Making the country look stupid is like fielding the England football team in a pink flowery kit. Ridicule would dominate any conversation and RMT would become a laughing stock.

 

[SynthD]

Some people will call them a laughing stock any hour of the year. It’s nothing to do with when the strikes are.

 

[Bantamzen]

Yes and what have the toothless PCS and FDA actually done to try and improve the lot of the civil service?

What has the PCS done recently to improve the civil service? Nothing, absolutely nothing. But that is a lot to do with the fact that it tried to play politics in the past and bring down governments, which didn't end well and cost me & my fellow members dear. The RMT and co could do well by learning from such lessons. As I have said all along, there is a right time & a wrong time to a pick fight. Talking of which...

The Birmingham games start in 33 days. That’s more visible.

This would be literally idiotic, yet sadly I'm sure the top table of the RMT are eying it up as a target.

 

[JonathanH]

So... what happens now? Does anyone think there will be another 3 day strike called on Monday?

The National Executive will need to meet to make a decision.

There seems to be lots of speculation about the next strikes being at the end of July just because of the Commonwealth Games but you would also imagine that they will want to consider the effectiveness of the strikes which have just happened, whether strike action concentrated in one week or over multiple weeks is the right strategy, whether starting at midnight or part way through the day is better and which day has the most impact. I assume that four days in each pay period is the most members would want to bear but it does seem to limit options.

The prospect of ASLEF and TSSA action is also relevant as it could allow coordinated action to take place - whether each union striking on different days to cause maximum disruption but there still being a limited service would have more impact or all striking on the same day to properly bring the railway to a halt.

Note that the RMT's Annual General Meeting falls between 3 July and 8 July.
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/events/rmt-agm-2022/

 

[dk1]

The prospect of ASLEF and TSSA action is also relevant as it could allow coordinated action to take place - whether each union striking on different days to cause maximum disruption but there still being a limited service would have more impact or all striking on the same day to properly bring the railway to a halt.

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/events/rmt-agm-2022/

ASLEF strike action has already taken place at GA with a further one planned for Saturday 2nd July. I understand many others are currently being balloted.

 

[SynthD]

The reality is that most people who strike are only in it for themselves. But it belies the fact that for all Mick Lynch calls this a fight for the working class, it really isn't.

The collective noun for working class people could be union.

 

[gazzaa2]

A militant would think that would be good idea as high profile

Everyone else would see it as idiotic, because it will lose goodwill with the public. Making the country look stupid is like fielding the England football team in a pink flowery kit. Ridicule would dominate any conversation and RMT would become a laughing stock.

It would be very much within the government's interest to negotiate a compromise if the games were targeted.

 

[Ivor]

The Birmingham games start in 33 days. That’s more visible.

Plus travel to Wimbledon tennis from around the country soon, especially a lot of travel within London/SE if it clashes with next lot of strikes, are there not more LU strikes looming also?

Then 5 weeks time we have the start of the football season across the UK let alone concerts, hospital appointments etc

It’s going to go from serious to very serious to travel for work & social & as I say factor in not just the Railway but LU & in the North there has been bus strikes, will that expand?

 

[JonathanH]

It would be very much within the government's interest to negotiate a compromise if the games were targeted.

The government are very happy to see the strikes continue, and to throw more issues into the dispute. It seems certain there will not be a compromise this side of the Commonwealth Games.

The compromise will come when the rail workers can't afford to strike any more.

Plus travel to Wimbledon tennis from around the country soon, especially a lot of travel within London/SE if it clashes with next lot of strikes, are there not more LU strikes looming also?

Wimbledon is the next two weeks. It can't be affected by RMT strikes now.

 

[Snow1964]

Plus travel to Wimbledon tennis from around the country soon, especially a lot of travel within London/SE if it clashes with next lot of strikes, are there not more LU strikes looming also?

Then 5 weeks time we have the start of the football season across the UK let alone concerts, hospital appointments etc

It’s going to go from serious to very serious to travel for work & social & as I say factor in not just the Railway but LU & in the North there has been bus strikes, will that expand?

To the best of my knowledge, none of these strikes have 100% satisfied the demands of unions. Most have resulted in staff losing pay and not really gaining much over what was originally offered.

 

[JonathanH]

To the best of my knowledge, none of these strikes have 100% satisfied the demands of unions. Most have resulted in staff losing pay and not really gaining much over what was originally offered.

...and they won't because the government is in this for the long haul, but there isn't any other weapon in the staff's armoury.

 

[Philip]

The government are very happy to see the strikes continue, and to throw more issues into the dispute. It seems certain there will not be a compromise this side of the Commonwealth Games.

The compromise will come when the rail workers can't afford to strike any more.


Wimbledon is the next two weeks. It can't be affected by RMT strikes now.

The government will not want strikes disrupting travel for the Commonwealth Games. It would be risky and cynical of the RMT, but it might persuade the government because the alternative would be a farcical situation and not a good look for the government or country.

 

[dk1]

...and they won't because the government is in this for the long haul, but there isn't any other weapon in the staff's armoury.

This government say they are in it for the long haul but their recent track record on speaking the truth leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Ivor]

Wimbledon is the next two weeks. It can't be affected by RMT strikes now.

Fair comment, but the football season goes on some 9-10 months, I’m not sure about rugby, horse racing & other sporting events etc but the business & social sectors may not be suffering greatly as yet but they will.

 

[JonathanH]

The government will not want strikes disrupting travel for the Commonwealth Games

I'm pretty sure they couldn't care less. The VIPs will get transported by road vehicles. The locals will get there somehow. There might be some local picket lines.

 

[irish_rail]

Aslef "could" strike at most TOCs from 25th of July onwards (the ballot closes on 10th July and 2 weeks notice is required) so of RMT have any sense (and so far they've been pretty shrewd) they'll time the next strikes to coincide with Aslef, so hopefully from late July or early August. Going ahead of this would in my view be a mistake.