Rail strikes discussion

[JonathanH]

One on 16 July and then a number in the last week of July would seem to make sense. Too long a gap takes it out of the public eye for too long.

 

[RPI]

Aslef "could" strike at most TOCs from 25th of July onwards (the ballot closes on 10th July and 2 weeks notice is required) so of RMT have any sense (and so far they've been pretty shrewd) they'll time the next strikes to coincide with Aslef, so hopefully from late July or early August. Going ahead of this would in my view be a mistake.

TSSA also being balloted which can have an effect too as quite a few management grades at both NR and the TOC's may well walk out, which has the inevitable effect of disrupting the contingency plans.

 

[Frankfurt]

C4 news did an interview with BoJo tonight didn't want to talk about by elections but happy to go on a rant about rail workers causing chaos and outdated working practices

He just spouted off the same tosh on Skynews. Even mentioned Drivers salaries and walking times

 

[ar10642]

Most retired people do not "potter." They simply spend their day doing what they want to do instead of having to do something that somebody else demands of them. Many are busier (and have just as much "purpose") after retirement than they ever were before and if you ask them, many will tell you they wonder how they ever found the time to go to work!

You have to have money to burn do all of that and I won't have it. You have to be a homeowner and have paid off your mortgage, I won't have that and neither will large amounts of people in the future, mainly because we're stuck paying today's pensioners 4 figures a month in rent to exist, and there's hardly anything left to put aside after paying that out.

I also know people who retired and then just stopped doing everything until they died.

 

[Wyrleybart]

You have to have money to burn do all of that and I won't have it. You have to be a homeowner and have paid off your mortgage, I won't have that and neither will large amounts of people in the future, mainly because we're stuck paying today's pensioners 4 figures a month in rent to exist, and there's hardly anything left to put aside after paying that out.

I also know people who retired and then just stopped doing everything until they died.

You say that like you begrudge the pensioners - people who have generally worked hard all their lives, paid their taxes, raised their families and generally "done their bit".

 

[Goldfish62]

You have to have money to burn do all of that and I won't have it. You have to be a homeowner and have paid off your mortgage, I won't have that and neither will large amounts of people in the future, mainly because we're stuck paying today's pensioners 4 figures a month in rent to exist, and there's hardly anything left to put aside after paying that out.

I also know people who retired and then just stopped doing everything until they died.

I took early retirement a few years ago, am now self-employed and work a few days a week when I choose, with my reduced company pension topping up my income. I'm now far busier with work and leisure than I ever was when working full time. My state pension will kick in when I no longer want to work.

 

[ar10642]

You say that like you begrudge the pensioners - people who have generally worked hard all their lives, paid their taxes, raised their families and generally "done their bit".

I'm not sure buying up all the properties in the area, pushing up all the house prices, charging sky high rent so they can have a fun and busy retirement full of holidays counts as doing their bit to be honest.

Oh and I forgot, resisting any and all building in the area to make sure the price of their assets does not fall.

I took early retirement a few years ago, am now self-employed and work a few days a week when I choose, with my reduced company pension topping up my income. I'm now far busier with work and leisure than I ever was when working full time. My state pension will kick in when I no longer want to work.

Good for you. Zero chance I will be doing that nor will many aged 40 and below.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm not sure buying up all the properties in the area, pushing up all the house prices, charging sky high rent so they can have a fun and busy retirement full of holidays counts as doing their bit to be honest.

What a nasty, blinkered attitude you have. They do not represent the vast majority of pensioners.

How about those who are in care homes having to pay the astronomical fees (normally over £1k per week) from their life savings, then have to sell their houses and other assets to continue paying the fees? Then when there's no money left the council moves them to a cheaper home of the council's choosing?

 

[Ivor]

You say that like you begrudge the pensioners - people who have generally worked hard all their lives, paid their taxes, raised their families and generally "done their bit".

Really don’t bother mate, myself & other pensioners (still working & fully retired members) this week on the thread have put the ‘other side of the fence argument’ for pensioners.

I appreciate that everyone’s circumstances differ, I for one next birthday becoming 70 don’t want to be working still…….oh wait….thanks to the strike I’m not working now.

 

[Goldfish62]

Good for you. Zero chance I will be doing that nor will many aged 40 and below.

So you begrudge others for being lucky enough to have it better than the future you have already predetermined for yourself. Lovely.

 

[ar10642]

What a nasty, blinkered attitude you have. They do not represent the vast majority of pensioners.

How about those who are in care homes having to pay the astronomical fees (normally over £1k per week) from their life savings, then have to sell their houses and other assets to continue paying the fees? Then when there's no money left the council moves them to a cheaper home of the council's choosing?

What about them? Those issues will still be happening later except we won't have properties and will probably just be left to die.

I notice you didn't actually have a point to come back with.

 

[Goldfish62]

I notice you didn't actually have a point to come back with.

Perhaps you didn't read the second sentence of my post.

 

[Philip]

I'm pretty sure they couldn't care less. The VIPs will get transported by road vehicles. The locals will get there somehow. There might be some local picket lines.

They will care if there is a threat of the economy not growing as much as they'd hoped it would following the Games, which is exactly what will happen if strikes coincide.

That said, if the government held firm with the prospect of strikes during the Games, the RMT/TSSA would probably have to postpone the strikes at the 11th hour, or else they'd lose a lot of credibility both with the general public and possibly even with railway workers who would normally be supporting the action.

 

[Ivor]

A lot of us railway agency workers now are without work because of the strike, not complaining as have to accept it is what it is.

Can I ask though the feeling of TOC staff….

Do you see a resolution anytime soon?

Or do you see this going on for the best part of 2022?

Maybe questions that nobody has any real answer to, I wondered what the gut feel is as a lot of us that have worked on the railway over the years (& yes agency work is hit & miss often re getting shifts) we are now trawling job sites but ideally want to stay in the industry & some of us being ‘of an age’ will I know struggle for alternative work.

 

[Moonshot]

A lot of us railway agency workers now are without work because of the strike, not complaining as have to accept it is what it is.

Can I ask though the feeling of TOC staff….

Do you see a resolution anytime soon?

Or do you see this going on for the best part of 2022?

Maybe questions that nobody has any real answer to, I wondered what the gut feel is as a lot of us that have worked on the railway over the years (& yes agency work is hit & miss often re getting shifts) we are now trawling job sites but ideally want to stay in the industry & some of us being ‘of an age’ will I know struggle for alternative work.

Unless there is a dramatic about turn , this sitiis likely to run for a good while. Drivers haven't joined in as yet but they will be doing shortly as ballot papers are being returned as we speak. Out of interest, what is the attraction of agency work?

 

[dk1]

Unless there is a dramatic about turn , this sitiis likely to run for a good while. Drivers haven't joined in as yet but they will be doing shortly as ballot papers are being returned as we speak. Out of interest, what is the attraction of agency work?

Drivers joined in last Thursday at GA.

 

[JonathanH]

Drivers joined in last Thursday at GA.

It really needs the contingent workers to join in to have effect though. The GA service on Thursday doesn't seem much less than the GA service on Tuesday in the grand scheme of things.

 

[dk1]

It really needs the contingent workers to join in to have effect though. The GA service on Thursday doesn't seem much less than the GA service on Tuesday in the grand scheme of things.

It wouldn't because it was the same day as RMT. Next Saturday is ASLEF only.

 

[Moonshot]

Drivers joined in last Thursday at GA.

Northern ballot papers have to be in by 11th July, so realistically the 25th is probably the first day for potential action

 

[Ivor]

Out of interest, what is the attraction of agency work?

For me circumstances, I found myself out of work approaching my mid 60s, a cliche but in reality was now unemployable, whilst looking for work I stumbled across a temporary CSA role & 4.5 years on still at it but some weeks can go without a shift (zero hours) now because of the strike shifts cancelled.

Bottom line something is better than nothing & we can’t survive on my pension especially as my wife’s Government pension was moved from 60 to 66

 

[Yew]

You say that like you begrudge the pensioners - people who have generally worked hard all their lives, paid their taxes, raised their families and generally "done their bit".

Non of which gives them the right to exploit working age people.

 

[bramling]

C4 news did an interview with BoJo tonight didn't want to talk about by elections but happy to go on a rant about rail workers causing chaos and outdated working practices

How predictable…

Tell that to my mum, infact tell that to every pensioner that I know.
You have the biggest chip on your shoulder that I’ve ever seen!

One way or other, it’s a legitimate discussion to be had. I find it hard to justify giving one group an inflation-matching rise, when another group isn’t being offered anything close, especially when the latter is paying for the former.

We always have to remember that political parties of all colours have an ulterior motive in protecting pensioners, as it’s well known that they tend to be more likely to vote.

There’s also a persuasive argument that younger generations made a pretty huge sacrifice during 2020 and 2021, which in the main was primarily for the benefit of older people. Having already transferred the effective burden of a health pandemic to younger people, it’s not unreasonable to raise the question as to whether it’s time for younger people to be prioritised - especially when there are plenty of fairly well-off pensioners knocking around relative to many working-age people.

 

[JonathanH]

It wouldn't because it was the same day as RMT. Next Saturday is ASLEF only.

Yes. The point I was making was that drivers striking on the same day as the RMT seems to be a waste of time because there are enough contingent drivers to run the service already limited by the RMT strike. Maybe 2 July will have its own effect.

 

[Moonshot]

For me circumstances, I found myself out of work approaching my mid 60s, a cliche but in reality was now unemployable, whilst looking for work I stumbled across a temporary CSA role & 4.5 years on still at it but some weeks can go without a shift (zero hours) now because of the strike shifts cancelled.

Bottom line something is better than nothing & we can’t survive on my pension especially as my wife’s Government pension was moved from 60 to 66

In effect a lifestyle choice which has been semi forced on you. I hope however that you can understand why union members are having to go on strike, because 1 of the reasons is a sly attack on workers pensions. I certainly don't want to be having to actually work part time when I retire because I have to......I want it to be a choice of doing that because I want to.

Yes. The point I was making was that drivers striking on the same day as the RMT seems to be a waste of time because there are enough contingent drivers to run the service already limited by the RMT strike. Maybe 2 July will have its own effect.

I think you mean contingent guards. However an all out ASLEF strike would mean absolutely no trains whatsoever.

 

[exbrel]

We will have to work until we drop.

strictly from my pensioner point of view, in your case i hope you do and that the pension age goes up, so when the strike ends, you work long and hard to pay our pensions... disgusted pensioner.

 

[Wolfie]

The government will not want strikes disrupting travel for the Commonwealth Games. It would be risky and cynical of the RMT, but it might persuade the government because the alternative would be a farcical situation and not a good look for the government or country.

You are being naive. The Government and media would spin it as greedy unions disrupting major events and they would be believed. Most likely they would dig in even more. How the RMT could lose support very easily.....

 

[Ivor]

In effect a lifestyle choice which has been semi forced on you. I hope however that you can understand why union members are having to go on strike, because 1 of the reasons is a sly attack on workers pensions. I certainly don't want to be having to actually work part time when I retire because I have to......I want it to be a choice of doing that because I want to.

Yes semi forced.

I definitely understand & I’ve posted several times that nobody should have their T&Cs eroded & I support the action.

It has unfortunately created some casualties along with it such as agency workers, losses to retail business & their staff etc but that will always be the case in any dispute.

 

[JonathanH]

I think you mean contingent guards. However an all out ASLEF strike would mean absolutely no trains whatsoever.

ASLEF Greater Anglia drivers were on strike on Thursday but there were still trains at Liverpool Street.
Tuesday https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...1/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=LE
Thursday https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...3/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=LE

No one union appears to be able to effect a complete shut down of the railway.

 

[Wolfie]

No, I really couldn't give a toss about you in general.

Well don't be too surprised if too many people say the same about you and hope that your rent goes up.

 

[infobleep]

I haven't got time to read all of the thread so apologies if this has been covered but how do the logistics of pickets work?

On Thursday the picket at the back of Guildford station was around for longer than it was today.

Do people who are picketing move off to another location for other parts of the day or do they just quit and go and do other things?

How does one decide when a picket has served its usefulness and isn't required anymore?