Rail strikes discussion

[YorkshireBear]

Exactly this. I don't think anyone is denying there may be a short-term impact, but I very much doubt it'll change travel habits. I have had many, many poor experiences with buses, taxis, planes and trains. I still use all of those travel modes depending on which makes the most sense for any given journey.

Gotta say I think that is the truth. I love travelling round German by rail. Even my wife does as she enjoys the views and seeing new places. This weekend most trains have been delayed it's been chaotic and lots of sardine like experiences and late getting to almost everywhere we have been.

Will we come again and look forward to it. Yes. Do we still love it yes. Will we still use it yes. I include my wife as she doesn't really care about railways so is more of a sample of the outside world.


Most people aren't as emotionally involved in the industry so are unlikely to have the same black and white yes and no attitude we do.

 

[nedchester]

Yep let's do a week of no rest days, overtime or swaps.

The job would stop

And this is why we need more staff to cut down the amount of rest days and include Sundays in the working week. But these staff need to be more flexible.

 

[ComUtoR]

As expected the usual suspects in the MSM are union bashing with talk of archaic Spanish Practices and how unions are opposed to the introduction of "new technology".

MSM? Forum rules required acronyms to be defined please.

 

[142blue]

And this is why we need more staff to cut down the amount of rest days and include Sundays in the working week. But these staff need to be more flexible.

What does that flexibility look like in your view. Remember we have existing weeks where we are given one job one day which could be changed at a days notice.

Do you see that as feasible every week, alternate weeks.

How do you have a life outside of work. Plans? Social events? Family gatherings.

Child care?

 

[ComUtoR]

And this is why we need more staff to cut down the amount of rest days and include Sundays in the working week. But these staff need to be more flexible.

I can only be as flexible as my roster limits

 

[GRALISTAIR]

And this is why we need more staff to cut down the amount of rest days and include Sundays in the working week. But these staff need to be more flexible.

Exactly

 

[43066]

Indeed I am but I am able to look outside of my bubble and see it from the outside rather than the rather self entitled inside.

As are many of us. I’ve done everything from working in a supermarket as a student, to a decade working in professional roles in the City of London. You are not alone in having worked outside the railway!

Change is going to happen on the railways whether you or I like it or not. I actually see some streamlining of train planning with the formation of GBR.

The unions have accepted change in the past and will continue to do so. However that must not be at the expense of staff - especially those at the bottom of the pile doing unpleasant jobs for a salary which many people wouldn’t get out of bed for.

And this is why we need more staff to cut down the amount of rest days and include Sundays in the working week. But these staff need to be more flexible.

That isn’t going to happen because, as we keep being told, cost reduction is the driver here. Therefore hiring enough staff to eliminate RDW and bringing Sundays inside everywhere will be impossible.

MSM? Forum rules required acronyms to be defined please.

Mainstream media I would imagine.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

MSM = Main Stream Media

 

[306024]

Change is going to happen on the railways whether you or I like it or not. I actually see some streamlining of train planning with the formation of GBR.

Maybe the train planners should all go on strike over job loses then

Well in BR days it wasn't necessary to have someone mark your homework, so you could be right, but who knows how train planning, or more precisely timetable planning, is going to work in the brave new world.

 

[ar10642]

How angry must we make the passengers for them not to want to travel ? Is a week of disruption not enough ?

Depends how long it goes on for. Just three days probably fine. All summer long I think people will be royally fed up with it and will start asking why were are all paying tax money for a non existent service.

 

[nedchester]

Maybe the train planners should all go on strike over job loses then

Well in BR days it wasn't necessary to have someone mark your homework, so you could be right, but who knows how train planning, or more precisely timetable planning, is going to work in the brave new world.

The train planning process is extremely inefficient as you imply and yes jobs will go.

I’m of an age where I will just retire or be made redundant.

 

[Facing Back]

Of course that would be illegal, but it would never be written or set up like that.
With contractors and sub contractors its entirely possible for two different groups doing very similar jobs being paid different rates.

Agreed and it is very common across many different industries

 

[nedchester]

What does that flexibility look like in your view. Remember we have existing weeks where we are given one job one day which could be changed at a days notice.

Do you see that as feasible every week, alternate weeks.

How do you have a life outside of work. Plans? Social events? Family gatherings.

Child care?

I’m not talking about going into work on days or hours outside your roster.

 

[choochoochoo]

I'd not bank on such a statement being true. People, including myself have returned to EZY and FR after being treated like dirt in the past simply down to the economics of it, the same doesn't apply to the shameful way the paying public are about to be treated by the rail industry because we have other options available. We are innocents in all of this but are paying a high price.

What is different about being treated like dirt by ryanair and being inconvenienced for a week by strikes (especially if as you say you have other options available)

Seeing what I saw out there this afternoon, not one member of the travelling public cared that there was a strike next week. If they were that appalled by their treatment they'd have walked away from using the trains today.

People do what's easiest and most convenient. I hear passengers slagging off the service and their treatment following a major disruption, yet there they are on the platform the very next day !! And that's post COVID and the proliferation of work from home.

 

[HST274]

I have seen a list of picket lines in London, does such a list exist for the larger country?

 

[baz962]

Okay then, what about bus drivers? They work more unsociable hours (especially in London) than train drivers, and have to travel in uniform to their depot, do they expect a fully expensed taxi?

It's different. These are not taxis to get to work , I have to drive or take a bus or train. Taxis are once you have started work and the company requires you somewhere other than the home depot.

 

[FirstMinister]

You sound a tabloid journalist looking for stuff to put in an article. Why would you suddenly join a "railuk" forum when you haven't rode a UK train for 20 years

I'm sure the Daily mail have given you a good pay rise hey?

Nah. Hardly. I don't even live in the UK (been gone for 30 years) and as I type this I'm sat in my house in Dallas, TX (I'm sure the forum Admins can confirm my IP address). I am, however, a nerd when it comes to industrial relations and tech - hence my questions.

As for why joining this forum and asking questions, well, that should be obvious. The usual sources contain little information other than a few quotes and anecdotes which are unsatisfying, lack detail and sound like the usual "unions are dinosaurs" narrative.

Take my explanation for what it is. You can choose to believe it or not.

 

[choochoochoo]

Nah. Hardly. I don't even live in the UK (been gone for 30 years) and as I type this I'm sat in my house in Dallas, TX (I'm sure the forum Admins can confirm my IP address). I am, however, a nerd when it comes to industrial relations and tech - hence my questions.

As for why joining this forum and asking questions, well, that should be obvious. The usual sources contain little information other than a few quotes and anecdotes which are unsatisfying, lack detail and sound like the usual "unions are dinosaurs" narrative.

Take my explanation for what it is. You can choose to believe it or not.

I dunno, you could quite easily be Grant Shapps himself. After all he has had a few alter egos previously !!

 

[FirstMinister]

MSM? Forum rules required acronyms to be defined please.

MSM = Mainstream Media.

 

[jayah]

I recently did twelve days in a row, which was a combination of RDW and annual leave being declined. It was far too much and in all honesty I was probably too tired to be at work by the end of

That in the 21st century a safety critical industry relies on it's staff reading bits of paper in cases, which often aren't accurate, says everything about how it's managed

I don't really care if it is in one case, or someone decides maintaining 200 mobile devices, software updates etc... is easier, but if it is like their other allowances it will involve 5mins to book on 15mins to read notices that in real life involves 1min to book on, 3min to read notices and 16mins of 'me' time which over 4 shifts amounts to 1/35 the contracted week.

 

[Evolution]

Nah. Hardly. I don't even live in the UK (been gone for 30 years) and as I type this I'm sat in my house in Dallas, TX (I'm sure the forum Admins can confirm my IP address). I am, however, a nerd when it comes to industrial relations and tech - hence my questions.

Plenty of journalists work remotely from all over the world, as well. And you could quite easily be using a VPN to mask your IP address. Pull the other one.

Why is your location showing as “Birmingham” ?

 

[FirstMinister]

I dunno, you could quite easily be Grant Shapps himself. After all he has had a few alter egos previously !!

Hahaha. Well played. Nah, I'm not Shapps - I couldn't live with myself if that was the case. I'd be reaching for the brandy and revolver...

 

[jayah]

I congratulate you on being able to read. It’s a skill everyone should have.

It still doesn’t change the fact you’re quoting someone who has made up lots of stuff.
Can you give me one example of any depot that has 17 minutes walking time?
Or these members of staff that are able to walk slowly and claim a longer break? Which grade in which company has that in their t&c’s?

I haven't directly quoted anything. I am inviting you to read it for yourself.

 

[43066]

I’m of an age where I will just retire or be made redundant.

That’s alright then!

Keep in mind that many of the staff going out next week may have many years left, and may be unable to afford to retire.

I dunno, you could quite easily be Grant Shapps himself. After all he has had a few alter egos previously !!

Shapps really is an odious individual isn’t he.

I don't really care if it is in one case, or someone decides maintaining 200 mobile devices, software updates etc... is easier, but if it is like their other allowances it will involve 5mins to book on 15mins to read notices that in real life involves 1min to book on, 3min to read notices and 16mins of 'me' time which over 4 shifts amounts to 1/35 the contracted week.

Still regurgitating the claptrap you’ve read in your favour newspaper I see…

 

[jayah]

You won’t use Wikipedia as a reliable source, yet you are prepared to believe a very one sided story in a very biased rag! That story is utter rubbish. Would love to know which ‘manager’ they spoke to if indeed they did!!

Not going to enter into a pointless debate with you as you have obviously made your mind up & are going to be right whatever is said in response.

Which bit of the 'story' exactly don't you believe and why?

There are different examples cited from both TOCs and NR in different parts of the country.

 

[43066]

Hahaha. Well played. Nah, I'm not Shapps - I couldn't live with myself if that was the case. I'd be reaching for the brandy and revolver...

 

[FirstMinister]

Plenty of journalists work remotely from all over the world, as well. And you could quite easily be using a VPN to mask your IP address. Pull the other one.

My only journalistic credentials extend to 8 weeks of work experience (remember those days?) back in 1986 at the Express & Star in their (now gone) sub-office in Oldbury. No rail stories as I recall - just the usual Smethwick house fires, coroner inquests, Sandwell Council meetings, magistrate court cases (some of which involved my classmates from school - that was interesting seeing Jonesy from Metalwork class in the dock) and burglaries.

Feel free to have your conspiracy theories - good luck to you. It's a shame, however, that they obstruct the exchange of info. and allowing those on the outside to learn more about the issues at stake.

 

[jayah]

Even if that's the case, you don't have to be a supporter of the strikes to see that "railway management" has a vested interest in briefing to the media in such a way that the strike is seen in negative terms.

This was my point - they are doing a very good job of it however much people hate the DM, or Sun who produced the much the same tailored for a lower reading age.

At least you haven't resorted to trying to pretend the whole thing was a pack of lies, which is as far as many people got.

It plainly isn't and if the unions have some dirty washing to air, they need to start playing the game instead of banging about their 'class war' like Mick Lynch was doing earlier today.

 

[TheEdge]

I don't really care if it is in one case, or someone decides maintaining 200 mobile devices, software updates etc... is easier, but if it is like their other allowances it will involve 5mins to book on 15mins to read notices that in real life involves 1min to book on, 3min to read notices and 16mins of 'me' time which over 4 shifts amounts to 1/35 the contracted week.

Trying to respond to you is like screaming into the void but damn my mental state and here we go.

My depot signing on time is 13m. That's 13m from me signing on to wheels rolling on my first train. So, 1m to sign on, pick up my schedule card. Another to read the SPAD notices (if there is anything new) and the Traincrew Information Display (live updates with things like emergency speed restrictions, heat restrictions, whatever), once that's scrolled round that's another couple of minutes, then a check of the main notice case. Once that's done it's time to walk to the cab, 8-10m remain. Leave my messroom, walk across the car park, into the station, check my departure platform, walk to my train, 2 or 3 minutes, 5-7m left. Confirm stops with my conductor, walk down the length of my train, 5m left, set up the cab, check my schedule for anything odd about this train, register the radio, sign into the train management system, set up the PIS, ready to go.

Normally I'm ready to go with about 2/3m to spare.

So where is the 16 minutes of me time I'm missing?

 

[Mintona]

This was my point - they are doing a very good job of it however much people hate the DM, or Sun who produced the much the same tailored for a lower reading age.

At least you haven't resorted to trying to pretend the whole thing was a pack of lies, which is as far as many people got.

It plainly isn't and if the unions have some dirty washing to air, they need to start playing the game instead of banging about their 'class war' like Mick Lynch was doing earlier today.

I’ve read the article and don’t recognise anything in there that couldn’t be classed as a pack of lies. Maybe it happened one day but it just doesn’t anymore.