Rail tickets up whiles petrol price down

[YorkshireBear]

Petrol might be going down, but councils are having to makes cost savings elsewhere (maybe in important services you value) to pay for fixing roads as they are becoming increasingly damadged by our weather.

So it just adds more cost!

 

[JamesRowden]

Using figures for public transport cost compared to having a car (using Reading to Hastings as an example of a trip one might make every so often):

Pubic Transport

A Reading Buses Reading area anual ticket: £500 (same cost as a plus bus added to a train season ticket [which allows the use of any bus operator])

Reading to Hastings 30 day off-peak return: £47.70 (£31.50 with Railcard)
2h40m each way

Car (data from AA for petrol car that cost up to £14000)

Annual Standing charge: £2400

Aditional price per mile: 21.91p

Additional cost of Trip from Reading to Hastings and back (107.8 miles): £47.23

I do wonder if the cost per mile is smaller when traveling a long way in a car rather than a local journey. Still if a single individual lives in the town that they work in, relying on public transport is a fair bit cheaper than owning a car. If there is not a bus/train to take them where/when they want to travel within the town they can cycle and do some good exercise in the process.

 

[Goatboy]

Longer trips on Motorways are much more fuel efficient than short trips around town so, yes, the per mile cost of using a car does reduce on average the more miles you do.

 

[andykn]

I'm reading these posts with interest: I'm currently considering purchasing a car for my commute to Sheffield. It's slightly more expensive than catching a train, but it's way more convenient. Instead of getting up at 6am for a 9am lecture, I can get up later and arrive at a time which isn't stupidly early (like 8.15). Almost without fail, my train is an old and battered 14x which leaks and is generally pretty rubbish and it takes an hour, not including walking at either end. I know petrol costs a bomb, but so does the train.

Another major cost saving is on my journey to the railway. Total cost by public transport is just shy of £15, but petrol there and back is less than £6.50, ie less than half the cost!

I've worked the cost out over the next four years, and a car (minus the initial cost) is nearly £1000 cheaper for me. And much more convenient.

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If you think the incremental cost of driving is only petrol you have not worked out the cost of the car properly by a long way.

 

[Goatboy]

If you think the incremental cost of driving is only petrol you have not worked out the cost of the car properly by a long way.

Quite - as he doesnt have a car if he's looking to buy one as an alternative to the train he must use the whole cost of aquiring the car and keeping it in his calculations. The marginal cost argument is relevent only for those who already have a car or would have one irrespective of whether they use PT or not.

 

[starrymarkb]

Time of travel also has an effect on the cost of a journey

I'm looking at going to see Mesh perform in Bristol travelling from Exeter with a few friends... Typical gigs end around 11pm

By car - £5 each per person in fuel (based on 4) - returning the same night.. Allow £2 each for parking and possibly £3 each wear and tear so assuming £10 pp

By train - £16 each Adv return but last train is 21:45 so add £30 each for a hotel in the city centre.

Extreme example I know - but if there was a later train we'd probably do that - especially as I hate driving in Bristol...

 

[MattRobinson]

Actually, if you read back, I said that taking everything else into account with a spreadsheet, I would save nearly £1000 over 4 years. I only put the up petrol costs because that was much quicker and easier than working out the insurance, servicing and depreciation costs per mile (however, as stated above, they work out to be cheaper when considered for me on a nearly new Volkswagen Up!)

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[hawaii2468]

Of course buying a car and insurance etc is a huge investment compared to public transport. But as for people who already had a car ( I believe most of those living in the suburbs did) then it's another story. I know many people who travel into London for work yet still keep cars in their garage. In this case what will they use let say when visiting a friend / party / events or going to a lunch /dinner / shopping centre / sightseeing etc etc?

 

[yorksrob]

Turn up and go- it's a journey I undertake on average once every two weeks so season ticket makes no sense.

The maths for university works out as being £8.33 per day by train (£457.90 for a season ticket from 1/10/12 to 14/12/12 divided by the number of days I use it (55)) but by car to Meadowhell and then tram is £4.41 in petrol + £2.17 for the tram (unirider divided by every day at university) = £6.58. I know it's relatively simplistic not to include costs like insurance, tax, servicing, etc but I have for my spreadsheet that I took my original costs from.

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I do think evry commuter route should offer both a season ticket and a carnet.

 

[SS4]

In 1996 a barrel of Brent Spot would set you back about US$30 whereas in 2008 (last available date) it cost US$100 a barrel - that's in real terms
In 1981 it cost you about US$100 (real terms) but in 1986 it was about US$30.
(Source)

The moral of the story is that it's very easy to manipulate figures to get whichever answer supports your viewpoint

 

[hawaii2468]

So it's quite obvious that public transport is much for working / weekend into London or some busy town centres / people who can't drive / welfare for elderly, children / long haul travel etc.

Imagine outside London if you have a meal with your friends or family in a pub about 1 or 2 miles away, will you walk 1 mile to the station, pay £4 for a return tickets for 3 then walk from another station to the pub or just drive which cost about £1 for the whole of 3?

 

[JohnB57]

It's worth considering the marginal effect that often quite big price increases - or reductions - in fuel prices have. If you take an average family diesel doing an average commute of say ten miles each way at around ten miles per litre (44.5 mpg), every 10p in fuel price makes 1p per mile difference to the running cost. Using that example, a twenty mile commute would therefore be 20p more or less expensive. £1 per week to most of us is marginal. On a 100 mile commute, it would still only cost or save a fiver.

 

[HH]

In 1996 a barrel of Brent Spot would set you back about US$30 whereas in 2008 (last available date) it cost US$100 a barrel - that's in real terms. In 1981 it cost you about US$100 (real terms) but in 1986 it was about US$30.

The moral of the story is that it's very easy to manipulate figures to get whichever answer supports your viewpoint

There's also the effect of the £ against the $, but all this says that it was expensive, got cheaper and then got expensive again. During this period car ownership went up as the petrol got cheaper (in real terms) and is now allegedly going down as petrol has gotten more expensive.

It seems a simple relationship...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's worth considering the marginal effect that often quite big price increases - or reductions - in fuel prices have. If you take an average family diesel doing an average commute of say ten miles each way at around ten miles per litre (44.5 mpg), every 10p in fuel price makes 1p per mile difference to the running cost. Using that example, a twenty mile commute would therefore be 20p more or less expensive. £1 per week to most of us is marginal. On a 100 mile commute, it would still only cost or save a fiver.

Depends on the commute - mine would be far longer, in fact I drive longer to get to the station. It's also questionable about the mpg you get on a commute - no way would you do 44.5 mpg on a commute into London, or many other large cities for that matter.

 

[SS4]

So it's quite obvious that public transport is much for working / weekend into London or some busy town centres / people who can't drive / welfare for elderly, children / long haul travel etc.

Imagine outside London if you have a meal with your friends or family in a pub about 1 or 2 miles away, will you walk 1 mile to the station, pay £4 for a return tickets for 3 then walk from another station to the pub or just drive which cost about £1 for the whole of 3?

Surely for 1 or 2 miles away you'd walk to the pub.

 

[Metrailway]

The graph is from a Standard Note from the House of Commons Library published in October. Shows how bus and rail fares has risen at a greater rate than motoring expenditure (i.e not just fuel - includes insurance, the purchase of a car etc) between 1987 and 2011.


Graph of Selected Transport Components of RPI 1987 - 2011 by metrailway, on Flickr

 

[radamfi]

Most interestingly, motoring is virtually unchanged in real terms since 1987.

 

[hawaii2468]

Surely for 1 or 2 miles away you'd walk to the pub.

1 mile might be OK, but do you know 2 miles is farther than you thought? Will you walk 40 - 45 minutes to a pub ,especially in rainy or cold night?

 

[andykn]

Actually, if you read back, I said that taking everything else into account with a spreadsheet, I would save nearly £1000 over 4 years. I only put the up petrol costs because that was much quicker and easier than working out the insurance, servicing and depreciation costs per mile (however, as stated above, they work out to be cheaper when considered for me on a nearly new Volkswagen Up!)

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But, according to your figures on just petrol alone you only seem to save just over a grand over 4 years ((8.33-6.57))*55 days *3 terms *4 years). Servicing alone will swallow that up, let alone brakes, tyres and the rest of it.

 

[Clip]

Then do a better job of shopping around. The Moke just off the M25 near St Albans is 128.9 atm IIRC.

http://www.petrolprices.com/

As you can see, the average price in the UK is some 7p lower than the price you think is the best you can find locally.

Brilliant. you are aware that St Albans isnt London.

So you expect me to make a 35 mile 1 hour round trip on average to save 10p at the pump and go at a time where there might be less traffic on the roads, basically when im actually at work.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Petrol is only part of the price of running a car. Insurance costs have increased a lot, for instance. Goatboy is right; the long-term trend is for motoring costs to go up faster than rail fares.

The OP has also omitted the wear and tear of a car also parking charges at the other end

 

[David]

I'll not comment much now, but just say that fuel prices are done on supply and demand, as well as the cost of a barrel of oil (and fuel duty, and VAT). Currently, the supply of fuel is stable, but the demand is falling. I'll post links tomorrow to back this up when I'm a bit more awake I am now

 

[apk55]

One can run a car for quite little money. My car a Citroen C1 cost less than £6K brand new with the current new version available for £7K to £8K. Depreciation is low as they hold value well and if you keep it for 6 to 10 years as I do then it is less than £1k a year.
Fuel consumption is in the upper 50's and may exceed 60MPG. Insurance I pay less than £250, and servicing costs probably average £200PA. I have seen running costs quoted at around 25p/mile which is less than many train fares.
OK you may have to consider parking costs but if you work in none town centre industrial parks as I did in all jobs when working then may be irrelevent or cheap. And these type of places are often not well served by public transport from all directions so changes could be involved posibly with different operators. Do not forget that the vast majority of people do not work in large city centres, rather in industrial estates or satelite town centres.

 

[Goatboy]

Brilliant. you are aware that St Albans isnt London.

So you expect me to make a 35 mile 1 hour round trip on average to save 10p at the pump and go at a time where there might be less traffic on the roads, basically when im actually at work.

Unless you live on Park Lane I somehow doubt that every petrol station within a sensible driving range of Central London is 140p a litre minimum.

Within 5 miles of SW1A for example, which is about as London as it gets, there are petrol stations selling unleaded fuel for 128.9p a litre. Infact there are at least 10 of the things at under 131.9p a litre. And thats right in the dead centre of London. The further out you are, the more common they'll be.

Put simply, on average unleaded fuel does not cost 139.9p in London.

Find out for yourself - put your postcode into http://www.petrolprices.com/.