Rail Travel Vouchers to be replaced by cash refunds/compensation.

[Sleepy]

B Rover err you can use them on trains (Inc. buffets) AFAIK this has always been the case ??

 

[sarahj]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33583904

Is it known yet whether holders of existing rail vouchers can swap them for cash?

I've got about £100's worth, but the act of redeeming them is murder. My nearest station is un-manned, you can't use them on trains or online, and the only way I can redeem them for advance tickets is to travel to Temple Meads and queue up at the advance booking office (which invariably involves a tortuously slow moving queue).

This is why I've had my vouchers for 9 months and still haven't used them, despite regularly travelling by rail.

Are you sure about not being able to use them on trains. Here on Southern land we get them. Someone last week bought a ticket from me and used it as part payment. oh and it was FGW one. Only note, no change can be given, so you dont use a £5 one on a £2.60 fare.

People who have southern issued ones can also exchange them for cash at a Southern ticket office

 

[westv]

I'll be claiming cash for my EC delay on Friday.

 

[30907]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33583904

Is it known yet whether holders of existing rail vouchers can swap them for cash?

I've got about £100's worth, but the act of redeeming them is murder. My nearest station is un-manned, you can't use them on trains or online, and the only way I can redeem them for advance tickets is to travel to Temple Meads and queue up at the advance booking office (which invariably involves a tortuously slow moving queue).

This is why I've had my vouchers for 9 months and still haven't used them, despite regularly travelling by rail.

You can use them on trains from an unstaffed station. I did so on Friday from Rishton with no problem. Ignore the implication of the wording on the back!

 

[Bristol Rover]

Interesting - guards on the FGW trains round here have told me they can't accept them on the train!

 

[Starmill]

Although many guards will, there is no shortage of guards who would prefer not to accept them, for their own reasons, some of which are quite understandable. The good ones will apologise, explain that and then come to a compromise with you that doesn't involve you using a payment method you don't want to when you have offered to pay at the first opportunity using a valid payment method.

 

[Flamingo]

We'll accept RTV's, as will the buffet - just don't ask for change. TBH, I can't remember the last time I had one, and would scratch my head to remember how do do a part-payment with one.

 

[westv]

Does this apply with immediate effect?

 

[bb21]

Yes, but until the Delay Repay scheme is updated, only the minimum level set out in the NRCoC can be guaranteed.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I'll be claiming cash for my EC delay on Friday.

Except the NRCoC only changed on Sunday, so I'd suggest it'll be vouchers only as those were the conditions that applied at the time...

Nothing to stop EC offering cash instead, of course.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'll be claiming cash for my EC delay on Friday.

You can't do this.

The "new" NRCoC applies from 19 July 2015.

(I assume you meant last Friday, and that you're not a fortune-teller!)

 

[westv]

Except the NRCoC only changed on Sunday, so I'd suggest it'll be vouchers only as those were the conditions that applied at the time...

Nothing to stop EC offering cash instead, of course.

You can't do this.

The "new" NRCoC applies from 19 July 2015.

(I assume you meant last Friday, and that you're not a fortune-teller!)

I'll ask anyway.

 

[gray1404]

Any examples of a "good reason" why I guard will not accept a RTV on the train?

I do hope the TOCs are not slow to adopt the new procedures. Although I fear they will be. I brought a ticket yesterday for travel on Thameslink and my train was cancelled and I was delayed 30+minutes. When I came to fill out the delay repay form online today there was a note that compensation will be in the form of rail travel vouchers and that vouher issued from 19/07/15 onwards can be exchanged for cash at any of their ticket offices. This is a new addition on the part of Thameslink.

It doesn't fully comply with the new rules either. It only benefits those customers who are actually able, and can be bothered, to go to one of their ticket offices. No mention of cheque, BACs or credits to the card used to buy the ticket.

Just checked the London Midland delay repay form and no changes to that. i.e. compensation in the form of RTVs and they'll send a cheque for amounts of £30+ upon request.

 

[westv]

Doesn't seem to be an option to add free text on the VTEC delay repay online form so I'll have to send an email.

 

[transmanche]

Any examples of a "good reason" why I guard will not accept a RTV on the train?

One I was given was that, "we can't accept a voucher issued by First Capital Connect".

 

[bnm]

Yes, but until the Delay Repay scheme is updated, only the minimum level set out in the NRCoC can be guaranteed.

Indeed. FGW will generally give you less if you opt for cash. For example, on InterCity services you can get 100% compensation in RTVs of the cost of a Single ticket if delayed by an hour or more as per their Passenger's Charter. If you want cash you'll only get 50% of the cost of a single ticket as per National Rail Conditions of Carriage. Return ticket? 50% and 25% respectively.

So, the value the rail industry puts on the inconvenience it causes you is determined by how you want to be compensated. ****ing bonkers.

Isn't that just typical of TOCs and ATOC? Making things more complex and anti-passenger.

 

[unlevel42]

Booked with Arriva for a Belfast to Sheffield single Mon 13th
Delayed by 2hrs at Killwining/Johnstone on ScotRail.
Vouchers arrived for full refund but only cash exchage available from a ScotRail station

Q. Can you only get DelayRepay cash from a station poissibly hundreds of miles away?

 

[gray1404]

It appears that TOCs are trying to get away with paying back in cash (BACs, cheque, card credit) etc by saying that you can exchange an RTV voucher at a booking office run by the same TOC that issued the voucher. This is not only impractical given that many customers do not live near a booking office run by the same TOC that might have issued their voucher, is this against the new NRCoC however? Perhaps not! "Compensation will be paid in rail travel vouchers or, at your request, in money.
This will be by means of a refund to the debit or credit card used to pay for your
ticket or, at the Train Company’s discretion, in notes and coins, a cheque or a bank
transfer payment (usually referred to as a BACS payment)"

This would imply the customer has to be the one to request a "cash refund" and even then you are only entitled to it if you used the a card to pay for the ticket. Perhaps this isn't the best deal for the consumer after all.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Hmm, I guess this is the only place where a change that is undoubtedly for the benefit of passengers gets turned into a rant about how it is worse....

The change gives customers new rights to request their compensation in cash. It has been made clear to TOCs that whilst they can fulfil this in their own way, the onus is on them to reach a satisfactory agreement with the customer - so, for example, if they offer RTVs that can be exchanged at a station, but the customer cannot get to a station, they should agree an alternative (e.g cheque or BACs transfer). For many people, exchanging an RTV for cash at a station they may pass through every day will in practice be a perfectly convenient process.

The amount due in the TOCs Passenger's Charter is the amount that must be offered whether in RTVs or cash. The NRCoC minimum is just that, it represents the national minimum but the TOC Passengers' Charter takes precedence as that is contractually agreed between the TOC and the DfT. Charters are a franchise matter between TOC and DfT and cannot be amended by ATOC, but the DfT is clear that regardless of whether the charter has been updated, the cash option must be offered if requested.

Whether you like it or not, the days of a 'command and control' railway are long gone, and it is inevitable that a change like this will take time to be properly integrated into every process in every TOC, but the key point is that since last Sunday, the right is there in NRCoC for customers, and that is surely a good thing.

 

[AlterEgo]

I really urge everyone to flood Transport Focus with this, if it is being implemented cackhandedly. The Rail Delivery Group are on Twitter too. @RailDeliveryGrp
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hmm, I guess this is the only place where a change that is undoubtedly for the benefit of passengers gets turned into a rant about how it is worse....

The change gives customers new rights to request their compensation in cash. It has been made clear to TOCs that whilst they can fulfil this in their own way, the onus is on them to reach a satisfactory agreement with the customer - so, for example, if they offer RTVs that can be exchanged at a station, but the customer cannot get to a station, they should agree an alternative (e.g cheque or BACs transfer). For many people, exchanging an RTV for cash at a station they may pass through every day will in practice be a perfectly convenient process.

The amount due in the TOCs Passenger's Charter is the amount that must be offered whether in RTVs or cash. The NRCoC minimum is just that, it represents the national minimum but the TOC Passengers' Charter takes precedence as that is contractually agreed between the TOC and the DfT. Charters are a franchise matter between TOC and DfT and cannot be amended by ATOC, but the DfT is clear that regardless of whether the charter has been updated, the cash option must be offered if requested.

Whether you like it or not, the days of a 'command and control' railway are long gone, and it is inevitable that a change like this will take time to be properly integrated into every process in every TOC, but the key point is that since last Sunday, the right is there in NRCoC for customers, and that is surely a good thing.

Thanks for an informative post. As always.

 

[gray1404]

And lets be clear the NRCoC now says: This will be by means of a refund to the debit or credit card used to pay for your ticket. So I think customers should be aware of this and insist on it (assuming they paid for the ticket with such.) Still being sent a RTV and having to go to a station of the same TOC to exchange it for cash is something totally different and is not actually the new provision being made in the NRCoC.

 

[Haywain]

Not all tickets are paid for by card though. This is a means of giving the option of paying the compensation in cash without sending cash through the post, which would be stupid. It also gives the option of using the voucher instead if that proves more convenient.

 

[westv]

All a bit of a farce at the moment. Does the ATOC actually communicate with the TOCs? Surely they don't bring in changes like this without some sort of consultation? Or maybe the scrooge like train companies hate giving passengers any sort of benefit even once they''ve agreed to it.

 

[gray1404]

Not all tickets are paid for by card though. This is a means of giving the option of paying the compensation in cash without sending cash through the post, which would be stupid. It also gives the option of using the voucher instead if that proves more convenient.

Exactly, so my advise would be to buy all tickets on a card from now on if you want the "cash" (credit back onto your card) in the event of being able to make a valid delay claim for your journey. That way there is no cop out for the TOCss because you've paid for your ticket by card and this is exactly what the NRCoC has provision for here.

 

[snail]

Exactly, so my advise would be to buy all tickets on a card from now on if you want the "cash" (credit back onto your card) in the event of being able to make a valid delay claim for your journey. That way there is no cop out for the TOCss because you've paid for your ticket by card and this is exactly what the NRCoC has provision for here.

It could open a different can of worms with the card companies though. Retailers will not normally offer cash refunds on credit or debit card purchases. Buying something on a credit card then returning it for cash is effectively getting a loan by a backdoor route.

I also wonder how the card refund will work. I would hope they do not have records of the card used for payment where the passenger has not given them the authority to store it. That means you need to put your card number on the claim form - but what happens if you put the number of a different card? As with the cash refund you are obtaining credit if you send the refund somewhere else.

I see RTVs as simply compensation for delay. The amount may be calculated relative to the cost of the journey but it is not a refund of the fare paid. Being able to convert RTVs to cash is a sensible solution.

 

[westv]

I'd only consider cash exchange for RTV sensible if you could go to any ticket office, not just the ticket office of the TOC you bought the ticket from.

 

[bnm]

The amount due in the TOCs Passenger's Charter is the amount that must be offered whether in RTVs or cash. The NRCoC minimum is just that, it represents the national minimum but the TOC Passengers' Charter takes precedence as that is contractually agreed between the TOC and the DfT. Charters are a franchise matter between TOC and DfT and cannot be amended by ATOC, but the DfT is clear that regardless of whether the charter has been updated, the cash option must be offered if requested.

Really? You ought to tell that to First Great Western then. They have made it clear that if you want cash compensation it'll be at the rate set out in the NRCoC. If their Passenger's Charter is more generous (and it is in most cases) then you will only get that extra generosity if you opt for Rail Travel Vouchers.

Compensation - payment method

As per our Passengers Charter compensation is paid in the form of Rail Travel Vouchers or via an e-voucher, which will show as a credit on your First Great Western online account, we will always ask which you prefer. From the 19th July 2015 passengers can also request to receive compensation in cash and this will be paid, via a cheque at the rate set down in the National Conditions of Carriage.

https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/about-us/customer-services/compensation

Confirmed that you'll get less if you want cash by FGW's social media team. This exchange on Facebook from 22nd July (I used a hypothetical scenario. FGW have different charter compensation arrangements dependent on the journey, be it InterCity, London & Thames Valley, or former Wessex Trains services. Most scenarios will however result in less compensation being paid if you want cash):

Me: A FGW InterCity service is delayed by over an hour. Passenger A requests compensation in Rail Travel Vouchers for his single ticket. He gets 100% of the value of his ticket. Passenger B decides she'd rather have her compensation in 'money'. She gets 50% of the value of her single ticket paid by cheque.
Please tell me FGW how that is fair and equitable. Why is the value placed on the inconvenience you have caused your passengers determined by how they'd like to be compensated?

FGW: The 50% in cash is the minimum requirement as per the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. This is what all train operators have to offer. However, as set out in our Passenger's Charter, we would like to offer more in the form of Rail Travel Vouchers. This is how we go above and beyond. It is then up to the customer how they would like their compensation.

 

[causton]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but a certain green TOC may be looking into using PayPal to refund customers "by cash" instead of giving out RTVs, as a long term thing, think it's very much a work in progress but could happen, you never know!

 

[bnm]

It certainly won't be the anti-passenger, rake in and keep as much money as we can, TOC that will turn green in September...

 

[causton]

It certainly won't be the anti-passenger, rake in and keep as much money as we can, TOC that will turn green in September...

From your post at the top of the page I guess not