rail union blames fumes after 8 diagnosed with cancer

[Edders23]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-51390241

A union has raised concerns over toxic diesel fumes being emitted by trains at a Leeds rail depot after eight workers there were diagnosed with cancer.

Unite said two had "sadly died from the disease" while four other employees were planning to take legal action.

It has called for better ventilation systems after a video showed "toxic fog spewing" from a train.

Network Rail said it was working with East Midlands Railway (EMR), which runs the depot, to improve conditions.

All eight staff members worked at the Neville Hill site for more than a decade and in the last six years they were diagnosed with various cancers of the throat, lungs, mouth, bowel and kidney, Unite said.

The union said the dangers staff faced from diesel emissions at Leeds and other depots across the country were "the tip of the iceberg".

Regional officer Kevin Hepworth said: "Unite believes that the carcinogenic diesel emissions that our members at Neville Hill have been surrounded by day-in day-out, often for years at a time, could be linked to cancer rates at the depot.

"This is literally life and death.

"Both Network Rail and East Midlands Rail need to protect staff by improving the depot's ventilation system as well as the policies meant to minimise staff exposure and the amount of fumes that are emitted.

"The dangers of diesel emissions have been known about for years and decisive action needs to be taken at Neville Hill immediately."

Rob Miguel, Unite's national officer for health and safety, said the union had set up "a diesel emissions register" where staff could anonymously report incidents of emissions exposure in the workplace.

A Network Rail spokeswoman said work on plans to improve the ventilation system would be carried out next year.

EMR said it had air-quality monitoring equipment at its depots and ensured "our working environments are operated within legal limits and to industry standards".

"The safety, security and well-being of our colleagues is always our absolute priority."

In 2012, experts at The World Health Organisation said exhaust fumes from diesel engines do cause cancer.

 

[Scott M]

From a legal perspective lots of potential confounding factors to take into account here before they can prove a causal link; yes they all worked at Neville Hill, but they all also worked on the railways in general, were they smokers? Etc..

From a human perspective, thoughts to family and friends of those who have passed away and hope those still alive manage to beat the cancer. Also any change to make the workplace safer can only be a good thing.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

If I'm honest, I'm not surprised the depot fills up with fumes - as nice as those Paxman VP185 engines are to listen to, they're not exactly environmentally friendly.

I can imagine how bad it would have been with Paxman Valenta engines and the Deltic's!

 

[Edders23]

Many many years ago I has an uncle who died of leukaemia. He was one of a number of employees at ICI Thornton Cleveleys who had all had the disease the union was trying to bring a case against the company but got nowhere

It is hard to prove causality in these situations and might not be down to the diesel fumes at all but could be a chemical used for coolant water or an additive in engine oil used

I suspect that in the days of the deltics depots were cold Draught places so fumes would have been carried away modern depots are designed to be more hospitable working environments so are probably less well ventilated

 

[Clarence Yard]

Actually it's usually the reverse these days - ventilation is taken far more seriously than it was. Taking Finsbury Park as an example, it was a closed end shed with fairly modern heating and ventilation for it's time, but Deltics off out of service repair or exam were usually dragged outside to be started up. With those locos it was the lub oil carry over that wasn't exactly great for your health but the substances used on them in those days weren't great either - "Genclean" was particularly nasty.

On depot you still have to handle and deal with quite a few substances that can cause issues. Establishing the link to any health "cluster" issue could take time but diesel fumes off fast revving engines is a good place to start.

 

[43096]

If I'm honest, I'm not surprised the depot fills up with fumes - as nice as those Paxman VP185 engines are to listen to, they're not exactly environmentally friendly.

It’s the lack of pre-heat on them that is the biggest issue.

 

[The_Train]

Regional officer Kevin Hepworth said: "Unite believes that the carcinogenic diesel emissions that our members at Neville Hill have been surrounded by day-in day-out, often for years at a time, could be linked to cancer rates at the depot.

I think the bit I have highlighted is the bit that jumped out at me the most. By no means am I suggesting that diesel fumes are good for anyone, but it appears that Unite have created a story here based on this being a possible cause of these unfortunate people getting this vile disease. Hasn't it been reported previously that the UK had reached rates of 1 in 2 people being likely to contract a form of cancer in their lifetime? The improvements in cancer research and the development of treatments has been staggering over the years but it will take generations before it can be completely controlled (if that ever becomes the case) and unfortunately that means we will all be faced with it in one way or the other during our lifetimes - whether that be our own battle or helping others through theirs.

Yes, its horrible and yes we all should do whatever we can to reduce the likelihood of ending up with it, but I can't see how people can lay the blame entirely at the door of one organisation/industry and I definitely can't see it holding up on a legal level.

 

[AM9]

I think the bit I have highlighted is the bit that jumped out at me the most. By no means am I suggesting that diesel fumes are good for anyone, but it appears that Unite have created a story here based on this being a possible cause of these unfortunate people getting this vile disease. Hasn't it been reported previously that the UK had reached rates of 1 in 2 people being likely to contract a form of cancer in their lifetime? The improvements in cancer research and the development of treatments has been staggering over the years but it will take generations before it can be completely controlled (if that ever becomes the case) and unfortunately that means we will all be faced with it in one way or the other during our lifetimes - whether that be our own battle or helping others through theirs.

Yes, its horrible and yes we all should do whatever we can to reduce the likelihood of ending up with it, but I can't see how people can lay the blame entirely at the door of one organisation/industry and I definitely can't see it holding up on a legal level.

A cause can of course be laid at the door of one or more sources though. Emissions from diesel engines cover a wide spectrum potentially harmful pollutants, and there is pressure to constrain their use to reduce the impact of those emissions. Those constraints are increasingly applied despite objections from the 'we've always had that pollution' brigade. Currently diesel car emissions, - even the latest Euro VI sources, are facing proposed bans in some areas. The level of pollution from previous generations of rail motive power is an order higher than private cars and the argument that those trains have lower per-passenger mile emissions levels than cars has no relevance to the obligation to protect employees at their workplaces under HASAW law.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Another good reason for rail firms to allow early retirement for those with a diagnosis and just a few years left. Years ago, eligible staff were given a pension or additional allowances by their firms for work-related illnesses, and it might be a good moral and social token from a TOC - however, cancers solely caused by diesel emmissions would have to be proven and liability accepted which I doubt will happen

 

[yorksrob]

It's another reason why we need that rolling electrification programme. The one that Governments keep cancelling.

 

[The_Train]

A cause can of course be laid at the door of one or more sources though. Emissions from diesel engines cover a wide spectrum potentially harmful pollutants, and there is pressure to constrain their use to reduce the impact of those emissions. Those constraints are increasingly applied despite objections from the 'we've always had that pollution' brigade. Currently diesel car emissions, - even the latest Euro VI sources, are facing proposed bans in some areas. The level of pollution from previous generations of rail motive power is an order higher than private cars and the argument that those trains have lower per-passenger mile emissions levels than cars has no relevance to the obligation to protect employees at their workplaces under HASAW law.

Absolutely a cause can be laid at multiple doors and those of us who drive cars that churn out pollutants are part of the problem. I go out running a few times a week as I want to become healthier but part of my route takes me along a busy main road where I get to breathe in fumes from lovely buses and wagons as well as various cars. My run may help reduce my fat etc but I doubt it's helping my respiratory system.

As I said above, the reality is that cancer happens. It's a scourge on our society but going after one source just doesn't sit well with me when there are plenty of other sources churning out the same pollutants.

One thing I'd be interested in, as I don't have the same level of knowledge as most, is how different is Neville Hill compared to other depots that deal with diesel trains/locos?

 

[HSP 2]

It's another reason why we need that rolling electrification programme. The one that Governments keep cancelling.

We should all agree with this.

But more Govs. will build more roads.

 

[smsm1]

It's another reason why we need that rolling electrification programme. The one that Governments keep cancelling.

Scotland does have a rolling programme of electrification.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Scotland does have a rolling programme of electrification.

But this doesn't help the poor workers at Neville Hill...

 

[smsm1]

But this doesn't help the poor workers at Neville Hill...

True. I was trying to highlight that not all governments are cancelling the electrifications programmes.

 

[Llama]

Having raised the issue of fumes on the footbridge at Manchester Victoria internally in the past I have had a senior TOC manager try to fob me off that diesel fumes are not a health hazard. I should've asked him if he would be happy to move his office desk up there.

 

[paul1609]

It's another reason why we need that rolling electrification programme. The one that Governments keep cancelling.

Thanks to Network Rail we do still have a rolling electrification programme its just that every project rolls years beyond its planned completion date and £££s beyond its budget. Until thats resolved no Government with any sense is going to sign up to more projects.

 

[HSP 2]

Having raised the issue of fumes on the footbridge at Manchester Victoria internally in the past I have had a senior TOC manager try to fob me off that diesel fumes are not a health hazard. I should've asked him if he would be happy to move his office desk up there.

Following on to the above, how did "they" get away with building the concrete block that is above 4,5 & 6 at Vic. (4s not too bad as it's part open). It would be OK? if it was only electrics that use the station but it's not. The part that's got more electrics has the most open roof space.
ie. The bit that the trams use.

 

[Llama]

Back in the early 1990s I'd imagine standards were quite different, and if a risk assessment was done as to the effects of train diesel fumes there is no way that the intensive use of Victoria nowadays would have been foreseen back then. The platforms as rebuilt in 1994 weren't bi-directionally signalled and might not even have been signalled for permissive working, that resignalling came later in 1998 by which time the NYNEX Arena as it was had been there for nearly five years. There were far fewer trains using the station back in the 1990s and passenger numbers were significantly lower - I can remember in the mid 1990s even on the busiest peak trains out of Victoria, e.g. 1700ish-1800ish on trains to the Calder Valley which were two car 155s/158s you could still get a seat even if you turned up at the last minute.

 

[yorksrob]

Thanks to Network Rail we do still have a rolling electrification programme its just that every project rolls years beyond its planned completion date and £££s beyond its budget. Until thats resolved no Government with any sense is going to sign up to more projects.

The only way you're going to get economies of scale, knowledge base of how to do it, efficiencies of not reinventing the wheel etc, is to do more of it.

If gmts had carried on doing it in the 1990's, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

 

[HSP 2]

I did have a similar problem in a place that I worked, in that it had open asbestos clad pipes. After a H & S assessment by both sides (union and management) it was agreed to get all of pipes encapsulated. God knows how much of the stuff was in the rest of the building. The building was built in the 1930s.
In the 15 years that I worked there, there were at least 5 lung related deaths with a number shortly after leaving work.

PS. about 120 people worked in the building.

 

[Geeves]

Both the improved ventilation and "green wall" at Man Vic seem to have vanished into the ether or should that be vanished into a haze of toxic smog. Those 68s are REALLY nasty for fumes.

Twice at Victoria we have been refused access to see the result of the air tests. I cannot think why, mostly because it would mean no one could spend more than 10 mins working down there never mind 9hours a day.

 

[30A4EVER]

Electrification is all very well, but what about the, also currently unknown health effects of working under high voltage power lines for 8/10/12 hours a day/night.

 

[Geeves]

Everyone at Victoria had better be writing a will then

 

[yorksrob]

Electrification is all very well, but what about the, also currently unknown health effects of working under high voltage power lines for 8/10/12 hours a day/night.

I remember seeing a programme about people living under electricity pylons suffering headaches etc, however these didn't suggest fatal effects.

I suppose the pertinent thing to remember is that the Government is thinking of banning the purchase of even hybrid road vehicles by 2030, so its unlikely that conventional diesel will be able to use the mainlines into cities. (Hopefully heritage services will be saved though given their scarcity !)

 

[AM9]

Another good reason for rail firms to allow early retirement for those with a diagnosis and just a few years left. Years ago, eligible staff were given a pension or additional allowances by their firms for work-related illnesses, and it might be a good moral and social token from a TOC - however, cancers solely caused by diesel emmissions would have to be proven and liability accepted which I doubt will happen

Neville Hill, (and other similar diesel MPDs) are likely to have a local concentration of NOx and particulates that even busy junction in cities might not endure, thus if a cluster of related illness (and deaths) was encountered, there might be a case for action against the industry in general. This would involve the DfT as the ultimate purseholder whose policies and actions might be regarded as contributory to any illegal levels of emissions.
Of course, that doesn't excuse the much larger burden of responsibility on the Government for permitting the general level of transport related emissions, even those produced by private motoring.

 

[Raul_Duke]

I must say, climbing down if a particularly smoky HST seems like something that shouldn’t be allowed nowadays with what we know about diesel fumes.

Whilst I don’t notice myself, my wife can always tell when I come home from work after being on HST’s rather than more modern traction, because I stink of diesel fumes.

Today I’ve spent four hours driving, 45mins prepping and two hours just sat on HST sets.

Prepping involves going in the engine room, and walking round a set parked in between two other HST sets.

The leading powercar on the way back was a little on the sickly slide and would certainly have been a sight for the clag enthusiasts on here.

My work shirt reeks of diesel fumes this evening to the point that even I noticed, it was decidedly grimier in the areas not covered by my jacket and I sneezed up a load of black stuff earlier like I’d been at a bonfire.

Having said all that, I used to regularly have to walk between rows of idling 222’s and those fumes used to give me a headache and nausea much more quickly and just seem more unpleasant than HST exhaust and know I’m not alone in that.

 

[broadgage]

Electrification is all very well, but what about the, also currently unknown health effects of working under high voltage power lines for 8/10/12 hours a day/night.

If on a train, no effect whatsoever. Google the "faraday cage effect" for details.
If out in the open, almost certainly no effect, though it is hard to prove a negative.

 

[30A4EVER]

If on a train, no effect whatsoever. Google the "faraday cage effect" for details.
If out in the open, almost certainly no effect, though it is hard to prove a negative.

Sorry, was talking working within an emu depot/running shed.

 

[30A4EVER]

I remember seeing a programme about people living under electricity pylons suffering headaches etc, however these didn't suggest fatal effects.

I suppose the pertinent thing to remember is that the Government is thinking of banning the purchase of even hybrid road vehicles by 2030, so its unlikely that conventional diesel will be able to use the mainlines into cities. (Hopefully heritage services will be saved though given their scarcity !)

There have been far too many of my ex colleagues over the past 30 years that we have been informed of as passing away due to various types of cancer and everytime the question is always raised regarding working under 25kv wires for x amount of years within the confines of an emu depot.