Railcard discounts on Oyster: rounded down on LTFares.com, but not on OysterFares.com—which site is correct?

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lightbulb

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I see that both BRFares and LTFares are using the new method of calculating railcard discounted fares, as a note on the homepage of the former explains:

"As of March 2021, rounding of fares after applying a railcard discount is calculated in accordance with the new Rail Settlement Plan standard published in August 2019, i.e. rounding down to the next 5p. This ensures consistent results with most accredited retail systems currently in use."

However, OysterFares is using the old method of calculation, with fares presumably being rounded up to the next 5p. Can anyone shed any light on what fares are being charged in practice—the rounded down fares on LTFares, or the higher fares on OysterFares?
 
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dtaylor84

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"This ensures consistent results with most accredited retail systems currently in use."

Presumably that means most retail systems are rounding down, but some aren't.
 

MikeWh

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Can anyone shed any light on what fares are being charged in practice—the rounded down fares on LTFares, or the higher fares on OysterFares?
Oysterfares.com takes it's fares direct from the TfL feed and doesn't amend them*. I would expect that that is also the fares being charged in the real world. Happy to be corrected, and will seek assistance if it's not the case.


* I would also expect ltfares.com to do the same.
 

Paul Kelly

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I can confirm that the prices on LTfares.com are taken direct from the TfL feed and not modified. So I presume this is what is actually being charged, and I agree it doesn't seem correct so is probably worth following up if you have a suitable contact, e.g. £1.70 Oyster fare discounted by 34% gives £1.122, so should be rounded to £1.10, but is shown as £1.15.
 

MikeWh

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Cheers Paul, I'll ask the question.
 

lightbulb

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Thanks for the clarification: I have re-checked, and see that of the three sites, only BRfares is rounding down, so the PAP and POP singles are showing as 5p cheaper. Assuming that LTfares and Oysterfares, being taken from the TfL feed, are correct (subject to confirmation) will it be possible to amend the incorrectly rounded down fares on BRfares without affecting all the other correctly rounded down fares?
 

Paul Kelly

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My understanding (disclaimer: which may be flawed or totally wrong) is that a factor in changing the rounding rules to be more generous to the customer, was the consumer protection regulations and the oft-quoted principle that where something was ambiguous, the interpretation more favourable to the customer should be applied. So it that case I would expect the same to apply to the railcard-discounted Oyster prices as to conventional fares.
 

island

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I can confirm that the prices on LTfares.com are taken direct from the TfL feed and not modified. So I presume this is what is actually being charged, and I agree it doesn't seem correct so is probably worth following up if you have a suitable contact, e.g. £1.70 Oyster fare discounted by 34% gives £1.122, so should be rounded to £1.10, but is shown as £1.15.
There was, at one point at least, a rule that when rounding, you rounded up to the next penny and then to the nearest 5p, which has the effect that anything that ends with 2.1 to 2.4 or 7.1 to 7.4 pence goes up rather than down as one might expect.

No clue if this is still in effect.
 

Paul Kelly

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It was superceded in August 2019. I'm not sure why RDG didn't generate more publicity about it; maybe they're waiting until all systems have been converted.
 

MikeWh

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Cheers Paul, I'll ask the question.
Apologies for the delay, I have now asked the question.
Thanks for the clarification: I have re-checked, and see that of the three sites, only BRfares is rounding down, so the PAP and POP singles are showing as 5p cheaper. Assuming that LTfares and Oysterfares, being taken from the TfL feed, are correct (subject to confirmation) will it be possible to amend the incorrectly rounded down fares on BRfares without affecting all the other correctly rounded down fares?
As I've mentioned before, I have serious misgivings about the inclusion of Oyster fares within the NR fares data. Not all fares are shown, some of those that are shown are wrong, and I really don't see the point.
Does the RSP bind TfL in its setting of LU to LU fares?
Probably not. Originally railcard fares were only available for journeys where part of the journey would be made on National Rail. This got quite complicated in some respects and a decision was made to simplify it and offer railcard discounts on all rail journeys. I honestly don't see them making it complicated again, so if they change the NR calculation it will be done across the board.
 

Muzer

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As I've mentioned before, I have serious misgivings about the inclusion of Oyster fares within the NR fares data. Not all fares are shown, some of those that are shown are wrong, and I really don't see the point.

Complete guess, but maybe the intention is that those in NR ticket offices with no obvious access to TfL systems can answer questions like "what's the Oyster fare to Y"? Of course if some of the data is wrong then yeah, probably worse than it being absent entirely...
 
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