Railcard Minimum Fares Are Confusing - Scrap Them?

[reb0118]

Recent media reports highlight the fact that passengers find railcard minimum fares confusing. This confusion can have serious unintended consequences - including potential court action.

To protect the travelling public is it not about time we scrapped the minimum fare and replaced it with a ban of let's say no railcard use before 09:30 Monday to Friday?

This blanket ban would be easy to implement, easy to understand, & easier to enforce. The penalty could be an excess to the undiscounted fare plus the set administration fee - only if this was refused would a TIR/penalty fare be invoked.

We should be careful what we wish for!

Remember, the minimum fare was introduced to allow "leisure" travellers to make longer distance journeys whilst starting early during the week, whilst at the same time encouraging shorter distance commuters to use season tickets.

In essence the minimum fare was a type of "easement" to the restrictions - if "abuse" of this easement can not be enforced (the level of that enforcement being subjective) then I fear it may be replaced by a simpler, i.e. more expensive, solution.

 

[Ianigsy]

It would make life at the fringes of the network difficult- day trips to London would be pointless if you lived more than two or three hours away, for a start. The up Highland Chieftain would be blocked until Perth.

When I moved across to Leeds and still had a YP railcard, I found that for my regular journey from Horsforth to Leeds it was still cheaper to buy a full fare single in the morning and a railcard reduced one in the evening.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it needed at all? It used to exist to stop people using Railcard tickets for commutes in preference to season tickets, partly to avoid excessive booking office queueing. Now hardly any tickets are bought at booking offices does it matter?

A third off doesn't take most Anytime fares down below a day of a monthly season.

 

[signed]

To protect the travelling public is it not about time we scrapped the minimum fare and replaced it with a ban of let's say no railcard use before 09:30 Monday to Friday?

Everyone eligible would lose big, another poster has a good idea, make it more expensive and scrap validity restrictions.

unless they decide to increase the cost of the railcard to say £40 a year with the spin saying "hey look, no minimum fare now".

A SNCF Avantage Jeune railcard is €49 (~£40) and gets worth it in the first return (mostly because most TGV fares are eyewateringly expensive without a railcard), you could even have periodic promotions (like SNCF where it frequenty comes down to €25 (~£20)) to ensure people buy railcards.

 

[yorksrob]

With a system of peak and off-peak fares, even with a railcard discount you're still paying more to travel in the peak.

Perhaps we should replace the railcard system all together with a "climate ticket". This would mean that the aim would no longer just be increasing off-peak travel, but would now also be increasing climate friendly travel throughout the day.

This would be more fitting with the current railway where business travel and commuting are less "peaky" and longer distance peak trains often carry around fresh air.

 

[dosxuk]

Perhaps we should replace the railcard system all together with a "climate ticket". This would mean that the aim would no longer just be increasing off-peak travel, but would now also be increasing climate friendly travel throughout the day.

The most climate friendly travel is no travel. If we want to improve the climate credentials of the railway, we should be encouraging people to stay local and avoid travelling at the quietest times so that we can reduce the service at those times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The most climate friendly travel is no travel. If we want to improve the climate credentials of the railway, we should be encouraging people to stay local and avoid travelling at the quietest times so that we can reduce the service at those times.

That wouldn't of course result in people not travelling, it would result in more car journeys.

 

[reb0118]

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not personally in favour of a blanket time restriction it's just that I can't see the "powers that be" scrapping the minimum fare without introducing another restriction to redress the balance - the mantra being it must be at least revenue neutral (whatever that means).

 

[JonathanH]

That wouldn't of course result in people not travelling, it would result in more car journeys.

The logical conclusion is that a similar stick is perhaps needed for car journeys then.

Scrapping the minimum fare in favour of a blanket time restriction would be a real shame.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not personally in favour of a blanket time restriction it's just that I can't see the "powers that be" scrapping the minimum fare without introducing another restriction to redress the balance - the mantra being it must be at least revenue neutral (whatever that means).

I suspect what they will actually do is amend the NRCoT and any relevant Regulations e.g. those on Penalty Fares so that in a PF area all ticketing issues including excesses are covered by PFs provided there was a means to obtain before boarding (i.e. in this case an open booking office as TVMs don't do excesses). If you read the NRCoT carefully it seems this may have been the intent anyway, it's just that clumsy wording has made it not actually the case.

 

[quantinghome]

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not personally in favour of a blanket time restriction it's just that I can't see the "powers that be" scrapping the minimum fare without introducing another restriction to redress the balance - the mantra being it must be at least revenue neutral (whatever that means).

Not sure this is the mantra, given other actions (or inaction):

- The 16-17 saver card (50% discount, no time restriction or minimum fare)
- The minimum fare has been left at £12 for 15 years. If it really was that important to protect revenue wouldn't it have been increased with inflation?
- Most young people commuting will be doing so in conurbations with ITAs which will have discount student season tickets.

 

[yorksrob]

The most climate friendly travel is no travel. If we want to improve the climate credentials of the railway, we should be encouraging people to stay local and avoid travelling at the quietest times so that we can reduce the service at those times.

Yeah, but no one wants to live like a medieval peasant, never straying from their village. We tried that in 2020. Once was enough.

 

[HSTEd]

I'd honestly prefer to simply dispense with railcards entirely.
The cost has grown much slower than fares such that (if I were eligible) I could justify it on the basis of one (~100 mile each way) round trip to see my parents in a year.

They are so cheap that they are rapidly turning into a method to hand some groups cheap travel than others without any meaningful commitment to the railway in terms of making trips to justify it.
If you want off peak fares to be cheaper, the proper method to do that is just to reduce off peak fares, not create a token that only some groups are permitted to buy.