Railcard not held on outward journey - what are the options?

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daisycatley

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Hi,

I am in a quandary as to what ticket I should buy for tomorrow morning. I wish to make a return trip to London. I own a 16-25 railcard but I will only have the hard-copy for the return journey - I left my railcard in London and the person I have left it with has scanned and sent me a copy of it, so I will be travelling back with it. Therefore I have got a photocopy for the first journey and the hard-copy on my return.

Do you think this will be accepted by the guard if I explain my situation and show him the photocopy?

Many thanks.
 
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Intermodal

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Ultimately, you may be liable to pay for a completely new fare if you do this. The guard may decide to let you off, but in reality he does not have to allow you to travel and I would say there is a large chance of you not getting away with it.
 

daisycatley

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With the railcard it would be £35.70
Without the railcard (return ticket) £54.10
or getting two singles, one with railcard and one without: £53.30

I would be saving almost £20 if I risked it..

I don't like to abuse the system, it's just a frustrating when I do own a railcard!
 

aformeruser

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What's the replacement railcard cost these days? It's probably cheaper to go to the ticket office and obtain one of those opposed to buying a new ticket.

The problem with a photocopy is how do the rail staff know that you don't have a sibling who looks very similar to you and one of you is trying to use the real railcard while the other uses the photocopy?
 

daisycatley

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It's £5 but you've got to have your original stamped receipt which I haven't got with me at the moment. I would have done this otherwise.

Has anyone been successful in showing a photocopied railcard?
 

DaveNewcastle

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Just to make sure you are aware, if you buy a discounted ticket, then it is simply not valid without the Railcard. That doesn't mean that you're not entitled to the 'discount', it means you're not entitled to use the ticket at all.

Unfortunately for you, a photocopy is not acceptable (and you can see why if you think about it for a few momments - people could distribute multiple copies to their friends and it would escalate out of all proportion in no time!).
There is a possibility that you might not be asked to show your Railcard on-board or at a barrier, but at the risk of being charged a full fare, possibly also a Penalty Fare, in addition to what you might pay for the worthless discounted ticket, then I think you might agree with me that the only thing to do is the proper thing: buy a normal, un-discounted ticket for your journey.
 

daisycatley

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Just to make sure you are aware, if you buy a discounted ticket, then it is simply not valid without the Railcard. That doesn't mean that you're not entitled to the 'discount', it means you're not entitled to use the ticket at all.

Unfortunately for you, a photocopy is not acceptable (and you can see why if you think about it for a few momments - people could distribute multiple copies to their friends and it would escalate out of all proportion in no time!).
There is a possibility that you might not be asked to show your Railcard on-board or at a barrier, but at the risk of being charged a full fare, possibly also a Penalty Fare, in addition to what you might pay for the worthless discounted ticket, then I think you might agree with me that the only thing to do is the proper thing: buy a normal, un-discounted ticket for your journey.
Yes, I completely agree with you, and I agree with the way the system is worked. The only thing is, my railcard has a photo of me on it, it also has my DOB which corresponds with my driving license etc. and it was purchased at the station which I am departing from.

I suppose I'm just going to have to cough up and get the full priced ticket..
 

bb21

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I have to agree with DaveNewcastle here. The only way to do it is to buy an undiscounted ticket, or two separate single tickets if cheaper.

You mentioned about taking risks. Please consider whether it is worth all the hassle and embarrassment onboard if you get caught, possibly landing yourself with a very small but very real potential of being prosecuted if the TOC can establish that you were aware that you did not have your railcard with you beforehand, for the sake of £20.

Yes, I completely agree with you, and I agree with the way the system is worked. The only thing is, my railcard has a photo of me on it, it also has my DOB which corresponds with my driving license etc. and it was purchased at the station which I am departing from.

I suppose I'm just going to have to cough up and get the full priced ticket..
There is no reason for us to doubt that you are telling the truth, however if you put yourself in the shoes of an RPI then you should be able to understand that things are not that simple.
 

bb21

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If you don't mind telling us which journey and your preferred travel times, we might be able to see if savings can be made via other legitimate methods.
 

clagmonster

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How long does your railcard have left to run?
A new railcard would cost you £28.00. The saving of having a new railcard for the outward journey would be £53.30-£35.70=£17.60. Therefore, £17.60 of the value of the new railcard could be attributed to this, so you only need to get £10.40 worth out of it to come out on top. Therfore, if your railcard has less then (17.6/28)*365=229 (to nearest whole day) days left to run, then you would be better off buying a new railcard. This of course assumes that you are still eligible to buy a new railcard.

If this is not the case, then you should pay for an undiscounted single for your outward and a discounted single for your return, otherwise you could face prosecution for evading the correct fare.
 

yorkie

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Without knowing the origin it is difficult to give advice that will be best for your needs. I am going to make the assumption that the single tickets are priced not much cheaper than a return, and make the assumption that your origin station has an open ticket office and also make the assumption that you have a Return ticket such as an Off Peak Return. (I was very tempted not to post due to the fact that no information has been provided on ticket type held, origin, and the service you wish to catch!)

Your options are:

1) Pay an excess fare to remove the railcard discount from the new ticket, the amount you paid for your tickets will be deducted, you pay the difference. This option is only available to you before departure.

2) Buy a new Railcard (this may be best if your existing Railcard only has a few weeks until it expires)

3) Ask the guard prior to departure. Depending on your origin station, the train you wish to catch and ticket type, this may or may not be practicable in case the guard says no!

4) Board the train anyway and be liable to pay for a brand new ticket, not an excess (unless the guard is incredibly lenient, which can happen, but is not worth risking it IMO.)

If we are given full information we are more likely to give a relevant and correct answer!
 

clagmonster

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4) Board the train anyway and be liable to pay for a brand new ticket, not an excess (unless the guard is incredibly lenient, which can happen, but is not worth risking it IMO.)
In this case, the passenger could also be liable for prosecution for fare evasion. It is unlikely, but must be considered.
Also, the options depend on whether the origin station has a Compulsory Ticket Area.
 
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