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Railcard up to 30 years old, is it only available on a smart phone ?

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Justin Smith

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Did I hear right that this new railcard (for people up to the age of 30) will only be available on a smartphone ? That is to say people without a smartphone will not be able to have one ? If that`s right that`s an absolute disgrace. We must remember we`re effectively talking a semi nationalised service here, arguably a (semi) public service because it`s subsidised by the tax payer, it`s not a private company. The latter can obviously do business how they want, but the former have responsibilities to all residents of this country. I`m worried this really is the start of it, because I do NOT want a smart phone at all, I spend too much time on the soddin` internet / computer at work ! I want to get away from it ! !
Incidentally, can anyone explain to me why the chancellor is presenting this in his budget ? ! ?
 
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yorksrob

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It's a problem if you're discriminating against 1% of those who should be able to benefit.

Also it's never just about that railcard. It's about when everyone else is going to be forced down that route.
 

roversfan2001

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If you use rail travel that much, the cost of a low end smartphone and the railcard would easily be offset by the saving over the year. You don't have to use the smartphone for anything other than the railcard if you didn't wish to.
 

AlterEgo

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Probably less than 1% of that demographic don't have a smart phone - even the most basic one. Not an issue

Agreed entirely, but why let the reality spoil a rant by the hobby horse brigade?

Crack on chaps, can’t wait to read the smartphone ticket/railcard debate again.
 

yorksrob

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If you use rail travel that much, the cost of a low end smartphone and the railcard would easily be offset by the saving over the year. You don't have to use the smartphone for anything other than the railcard if you didn't wish to.

Makes for a very expensive railcard ! Plus I wouldn't trust my smartphone not to run out of juice.
 

yorksrob

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Agreed entirely, but why let the reality spoil a rant by the hobby horse brigade?

Crack on chaps, can’t wait to read the smartphone ticket/railcard debate again.

Or why use a cheap system that's worked for decades when you can ditch it for technological hokum.
 

Clip

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Makes for a very expensive railcard ! Plus I wouldn't trust my smartphone not to run out of juice.


seems very familiar - didn't we already go round the houses with this thing?
 

mallard

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All fun and games until someone gets prosecuted because their phone ran out of juice on a several-hour delayed train with no charging facilities... Smartphones aren't exactly known for their battery life and the chances are if the train's late you'll need to tell the people that you're meeting.

If TOCs want to accept "m-Tickets" or ATOC/RDG want to save a few pennies in printing costs, it should be a basic requirement for all trains to have power sockets at all seats and for a lack of working sockets to be a valid defence against the relevant byelaw offences (and PFs).
 

roversfan2001

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All fun and games until someone gets prosecuted because their phone ran out of juice on a several-hour delayed train with no charging facilities...
I think we all know that will never, ever happen. If there is severe disruption discretion will be shown, that's obvious.
 

Merseysider

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If that`s right that`s an absolute disgrace
Er, no.

That’s life.

Nobody’s forcing you to buy a railcard.

An ”absolute disgrace” would be Virgin West Coast refusing to accept railcards (goodness knows they’d love to!) or the minimum fare being unilaterally increased to £30.

As SWT_USER says above, this is really a non-issue.
 

tbtc

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I thought that the funniest post of the day was the one where someone listed the entire LM fleet to show that it was all in LM livery...

...but now I've read this froth and it takes the award!

It takes a special kind of special to get this angry about something as trivial as worrying about the percentage of people in their 20s who don't have a smartphone. Well done, Sir.
 

mallard

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Well given m-tickets have been around for quite some time now, surely this is already happening. Got any examples?

Northern's FAQ makes it quite clear that they expect passengers to purchase brand new (presumably Anytime-only if on a train) tickets if their battery runs out.

East Midlands Trains says more-or-less the same thing, making it clear that they'll only offer Anytimes ("full-fare") and that PFs will be issued if the passenger doesn't have the funds.

TransPennine Express says "If you do not produce your ticket or hand over your mobile phone upon a request to do so by the train inspector, the train inspector shall be entitled to consider that you are travelling without a ticket. It is your responsibility to ensure that your mobile phone has sufficient battery life that you are able to show the ticket at any time during your journey."

TfL have made similar statements.

While I admit that a prosecution is unlikely (but certainly possible), simply due to the bad press it could generate, a PF is more than likely. Note that a passenger could be several hours delayed (on a previous connection) and be on an on-time train when their phone runs out of power. Will guards/conductors/RPIs/hired security really take the passenger's word for it that the train was delayed and apply discretion or will they stick rigidly to the rules and stated policies? I know which I believe is more likely...

But the forum hath spoken, "m-tickets" are the future and all dissenting opinions are prohibited.

Basically, if you're foolhardy enough to try to travel on an "m-ticket", take a large power pack with you. Note that even a second device won't help; in at least some ticket apps, you need to "remove" the ticket from the first device (requiring it to be operational) to access it on another.
 
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Darandio

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Well, I was looking for examples of prosecution. Anyway, I don't see that any moderators have spoken but it is the future, along with a cashless society and everything else many people don't like or are afraid of.
 

Bantamzen

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OK, at the risk of being under fire may I offer a technical solution to the smartphone battery issue? Are you sitting comfortably? Then we'll begin...... :D

If you have a travel critical document held on your phone and your battery is on the low side (say under 25%), then turn off apps you are not using, don't constantly spam FB, Twitter, Email etc, and if needs be turn off WiFi / Data. At a push if the delay is likely to be for some time, turn it off!!! Also most smartphones have various battery saving modes that can be triggered or set to start at pre-defined levels. Ta Da!!!! Instant 21st Century 1st World problem resolution!!

OK, so on a slightly more serious note, I've on occasions nursed my S7 Edge through more than a dozen hours on low battery by simply employing these very basic measures, knowing as I do that I may need to make the occasional call and use the occasional application. It really, really isn't rocket science. And if any disruption goes on for more than a few hours, there's a pretty good chance that most TOC staff will be more concerned with getting people home than worrying about if they have got a valid railcard on their phones.
 

mallard

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Well, I was looking for examples of prosecution. Anyway, I don't see that any moderators have spoken but it is the future, along with a cashless society and everything else many people don't like or are afraid of.

In this case, it's a "passenger right-less" society that's the supposed "future", but that's been the way the industry's been going for decades now.
 

mallard

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OK, at the risk of being under fire may I offer a technical solution to the smartphone battery issue? Are you sitting comfortably? Then we'll begin...... :D

If you have a travel critical document held on your phone and your battery is on the low side (say under 25%), then turn off apps you are not using, don't constantly spam FB, Twitter, Email etc, and if needs be turn off WiFi / Data. At a push if the delay is likely to be for some time, turn it off!!! Also most smartphones have various battery saving modes that can be triggered or set to start at pre-defined levels. Ta Da!!!! Instant 21st Century 1st World problem resolution!!

OK, so on a slightly more serious note, I've on occasions nursed my S7 Edge through more than a dozen hours on low battery by simply employing these very basic measures, knowing as I do that I may need to make the occasional call and use the occasional application. It really, really isn't rocket science. And if any disruption goes on for more than a few hours, there's a pretty good chance that most TOC staff will be more concerned with getting people home than worrying about if they have got a valid railcard on their phones.

So basically, only use high-end, expensive smartphones with longer than average battery lives, don't use your phone (or presumably, carry a second one) for its intended purpose while travelling and don't even think about attempting to make amends/arrangements when you're delayed.

At what point does it just become more sensible to insist on a real ticket (where it's actually possible)?
 

Bantamzen

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So basically, only use high-end, expensive smartphones with longer than average battery lives, don't use your phone (or presumably, carry a second one) for it's intended purpose while travelling and don't even think about attempting to make amends/arrangements when you're delayed.

At what point does it just become more sensible to insist on a real ticket (where it's actually possible)?

No, just be aware of the need to preserve battery power if you have travel critical documents loaded onto it. If you had to make a call at the end of the journey for say a pick-up, would you blow the juice away using other functionality? No, of course you wouldn't. The same principle applies here, regardless of the cost of the device.
 

Darandio

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So basically, only use high-end, expensive smartphones with longer than average battery lives

Not at all, this is getting silly now. I use a very basic low end smartphone which will last over a week without intensive use, reduce that to 3-4 days if i'm regularly checking emails and making calls. That said, I don't feel the need to spend 98% of the time using it for t'internet.

I'm in no way 'technic savvy' when it comes to phones, but what I often read it seems to be the higher end devices are the ones struggling with battery life. Jon might be able to enlighten us on that.
 

mallard

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If a train was delayed by hours after a fatality/wires going down etc. I'm 100% sure no one would be penalised for their phone battery running out with a mobile railcard.

Even a few hours later when they're on an on-time connecting service? Or when they've arrived at their destination and are faced with a RPI (or hired security that have minimal training and no way to check the veracity of your delay claims) blockade?

Not at all, this is getting silly now. I use a very basic low end smartphone which will last over a week without intensive use, reduce that to 3-4 days if i'm regularly checking emails and making calls.

I have a high-end (but nearly 2 years old now) phone that will last 2 days if I'm very careful and barely use it. If I'm on a delayed train, I'm highly likely to use it more than I would otherwise, simply because there's no other way to get up-to-date, accurate information about the status of delays, ticket acceptance, etc. I do carry a large power pack most of the time, but if I've been away for a couple of days, that could easily have been used up by the time I'm returning home. Even in 2017, not all hotel/hostel rooms have accessible power sockets and I sometimes even go camping...

I'm a software developer, I appreciate technology, but I'm not going to rely on consumer-level tech when failure could lead to a large hole in my bank account and/or a criminal record.
 

Bantamzen

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I have a high-end (but nearly 2 years old now) phone that will last 2 days if I'm very careful and barely use it. If I'm on a delayed train, I'm highly likely to use it more than I would otherwise, simply because there's no other way to get up-to-date, accurate information about the status of delays, ticket acceptance, etc. I do carry a large power pack most of the time, but if I've been away for a couple of days, that could easily have been used up by the time I'm returning home. Even in 2017, not all hotel/hostel rooms have accessible power sockets and I sometimes even go camping...

I'm a software developer, I appreciate technology, but I'm not going to rely on consumer-level tech when failure could lead to a large hole in my bank account and/or a criminal record.

But the point is as a smartphone user you would be aware of the need to preserve power if you had a travel critical document loaded onto it, much in the same way that you would restrict its use if you needed to make urgent calls to continue / complete your journey. And whilst smartphones are great for checking the status of your delay, possible connections etc, if we are honest about it if you are stuck on a train that's going nowhere with no ETA for a resolution, all you are really doing is checking what might be possible. In reality the train crew would be in the best position to advise on the status, and hopefully they would be regularly communicating this to all passengers. So you could switch off most functionality until you had an ETA for completing the delayed part of your journey, thus saving battery power and thus avoiding any possible problems.

I do know where you are coming from, I often like to use my smartphone when services are delayed to see what might be causing it, if there are other connections that might be possible. But I often find that the delay is simply unpredictable, especially if it involves equipment directly associated with the service I am on I eventually leave myself in the hands of the TOC / NR until such time as I can start to plan again.
 

Clip

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Basically, if you're foolhardy enough to try to travel on an "m-ticket", take a large power pack with you.

And this is where you argument falls down properly because they are anything but 'large' nowadays.

Also all the other T&Cs, as discussed many times previously, also occur if you forget or lose your railcard so why people keep on about this being a bad thing I will never ever know.
 
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