Raileasy split ticketing

[tractakid]

Done. You can click on the train details (where it says "London Midland train service to Liverpool", for example) and it will open a new tab at brtimes.com with the service details.

Super.

 

[Muzer]

Please don't recommend people use it to find splits and then book them on TOC web sites, that would be annoying.

I understand your point, but I find great irony in the way you phrased it - I'm sure you're causing a great deal of annoyance to ATOC right now
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We thought long and hard about this and might have to do so if people do as Transportphoto suggests

I would then definitely not use your site. I would not be comfortable with buying things when I don't know what they are. After all, there might well be bugs and I could end up with invalid tickets.

 

[Techniquest]

I would then definitely not use your site. I would not be comfortable with buying things when I don't know what they are. After all, there might well be bugs and I could end up with invalid tickets.

Quite so. People, myself definitely included, don't buy things in shops if they can't get a proper look at it, find out what ingredients are used or what price something is (yes this is the case, I am a retail man!). So I seriously doubt someone would book tickets without having access to the details first, I most definitely wouldn't!
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I should point out as well that I found a slight issue with Trainsplit.com this morning. Hereford to Manchester for £36.30 day returns sounded great, but the Hereford to Shrewsbury leg is on a Hereford to Shrewsbury Online Only CDR, which is only valid on London Midland services therefore not valid on the itineries provided.

 

[Paul Kelly]

the Hereford to Shrewsbury leg is on a Hereford to Shrewsbury Online Only CDR, which is only valid on London Midland services

Do you have a source for that? The fare is routed ANY PERMITTED.

 

[Techniquest]

It's only for sale on www.londonmidland.com on their almost-over 25% off sale, which will only generate the sale fares via a couple of particular links. You cannot buy this fare at the station, obviously with the name of Online Only CDR you wouldn't expect to!

I am well aware the restriction code is CS, however I have looked on various TOC sites as well as RedSpottedHanky.com and I cannot book a Hereford to Shrewsbury Online Only CDR anywhere, as I expected. Believe you me, if I could, my travels this year to the North West would have been significantly cheaper!

Said ticket shouldn't be coming up as an option anywhere for a Hereford to Shrewsbury journey via Ludlow. Evidently a glitch is in the system for it to be appearing on Trainsplit.com, however this does reinforce the point Muzer was making which I wholly agree with, that such glitches could cause someone to be making an invalid journey without knowing it.

I would never assume Any Permitted means much, since it doesn't make an ounce of difference on the vast majority of journeys people make. Sure doesn't on, for example, Hereford to Cardiff journeys!

 

[SickyNicky]

I should point out as well that I found a slight issue with Trainsplit.com this morning. Hereford to Manchester for £36.30 day returns sounded great, but the Hereford to Shrewsbury leg is on a Hereford to Shrewsbury Online Only CDR, which is only valid on London Midland services therefore not valid on the itineries provided.

I can find no evidence that this ticket is restricted to London Midland services only, but I'm open to suggestions. I have used it on Arriva services myself on a number of occasions with no problems. There is no doubt that we are permitted to sell it and that the underlying data does NOT restrict it's validity (there IS a technical means to do this which has not been invoked).

 

[bb21]

I am well aware the restriction code is CS, however I have looked on various TOC sites as well as RedSpottedHanky.com and I cannot book a Hereford to Shrewsbury Online Only CDR anywhere, as I expected. Believe you me, if I could, my travels this year to the North West would have been significantly cheaper!

Of course you cannot. It is only supposed to be sold by LM and no one else.

 

[SickyNicky]

Of course you cannot. It is only supposed to be sold by LM and no one else.

I'm sure you're right, but the data does appear to allow us to sell it. Raileasy also sells it. I haven't checked the other independent booking engines.

 

[bb21]

If Raileasy for one reason or another are allowed to sell it, I see no reason why it should not be shown in the results.

 

[island]

Unless you are the Northampton booking office, LM's "online only" tickets routed "ANY PERMITTED" are valid on any train operating company's service on a permitted route. If there is any doubt, yorkie will be along shortly to point out that any restrictions on the train company you may use needs to be printed on the ticket.

 

[Hadders]

The sale page on LM's website specifically states that sale tickets marked Any Permitted are valid on any train operator.

 

[yorkie]

Any restrictions on the train company you may use needs to be printed on the ticket! (NRCoC Condition 10) :P

... that such glitches could cause someone to be making an invalid journey without knowing it....

While an itinerary isn't necessary to use a ticket, I would point out that any ticket is valid in accordance with any itinerary provided. So if a glitch results in an unusual itinerary being provided, the ticket is still valid for that itinerary. See Routes permitted by booking engines

I would never assume Any Permitted means much, since it doesn't make an ounce of difference on the vast majority of journeys people make. Sure doesn't on, for example, Hereford to Cardiff journeys!

Any Permitted means any permitted. If you're saying there is only one permitted route between Hereford and Cardiff, then that doesn't diminish the meaning in any way, and such a ticket would still be valid on any TOC. If only three TOCs happen to operate between any of the intermediate stations, and only one of those operating through trains, that also doesn't diminish the meaning in any way.

 

[island]

The sale page on LM's website specifically states that sale tickets marked Any Permitted are valid on any train operator.

I took that to the above-mentioned Northampton ticket office once and was told that the website was out of date and only the leaflets that he had were valid.

 

[Hadders]

I took that to the above-mentioned Northampton ticket office once and was told that the website was out of date and only the leaflets that he had were valid.

That sounds about right for Northampton! (And I'm Northampton born)

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Any restrictions on the train company you may use needs to be printed on the ticket! (NRCoC Condition 10) :P.....

That's an over-simplification of what it says imo, but in this case it doesn't really matter.....

....

Can I travel only on London Midland trains with my 'sale' ticket?

If your ticket is marked 'Any permitted' under the word 'route', then you can use any train operator for your journey. If your ticket is marked 'London Midland only' or similar, then your journey must only be on London Midland trains.

When you plan your journey online, the system will show you the trains on which your chosen ticket can be used.

Examples of routes where you can use any operator are: Birmingham to Shrewsbury, Rugby to Birmingham and Liverpool to Birmingham. Between Milton Keynes and London, the sale includes tickets that can be used only on London Midland trains, as well as slightly more expensive tickets that can be used on any train operator's services.

....

 

[Techniquest]

Fair points been raised, however I'm definitely not taking the chance of using it on an ATW service! It might be valid, but I seriously doubt it really is and that an ATW RPI/guard would recognise or accept the ticket as valid on his/her train.

Regardless, said ticket should be disappearing from the systems soon.

 

[SickyNicky]

Fair points been raised, however I'm definitely not taking the chance of using it on an ATW service! It might be valid, but I seriously doubt it really is and that an ATW RPI/guard would recognise or accept the ticket as valid on his/her train.

I can confirm that I (and my colleagues) have used these tickets along the Marches line on numerous occasions through this and previous LM sales. We have never encountered any problems and I would be shocked if we did.

Regardless, said ticket should be disappearing from the systems soon.

It will. But it will be back later in the year.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Checked a single journey from Euston to Meadowhall any weekday (before the end of the LM sale) via Tamworth. Received many appropriate itineraries on LM to Tamworth, XC to Sheffield, and Northern to Meadowhall.

I was not offered any splits but told to buy a through SSR for £47.85. On itineraries changing at Birmingham rather than Tamworth, I was offered the split: London to Birmingham LM only online SVR £13.85, Birmingham to Derby CDR £10.55, Derby to Meadowhall CDR £7.35. Total price £31.75

I was expecting to be offered the split: London to Sheffield route "LM/XC ONLY" online only SVR for £26.40, and Sheffield to Meadowhall CDR £1.85, total price £28.25. The first ticket, in the electronic routing guide (and possibly the paper one, I haven't checked), is valid via either Nuneaton and Tamworth or Birmingham and Tamworth.
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It will. But it will be back later in the year.

Do you know when?

 

[SickyNicky]

I was expecting to be offered the split: London to Sheffield route "LM/XC ONLY" online only SVR for £26.40, and Sheffield to Meadowhall CDR £1.85, total price £28.25.

A fascinating challenge, this one. I assume you were using a "via" point (Tamworth or Northampton, probably). It's caused by the final check to ensure split ticket validity not accepting a via point and therefore finding direct trains up the midland mainline. This is a "feature" of the journey planner I use.

Anyway, I have put a patch in to try to catch these and it's on our test server at the moment. Expect it to go live soon.

Thanks!

 

[PermitToTravel]

Lovely, thank you very much!

 

[Techniquest]

I can confirm that I (and my colleagues) have used these tickets along the Marches line on numerous occasions through this and previous LM sales. We have never encountered any problems and I would be shocked if we did.

Oh right, fair enough. Armed with plenty of paperwork to prove it's valid if challenged?

 

[bb21]

What paperwork?

If a fare is routed Any Permitted, it means exactly that. The fare type changes nothing.

 

[yorkie]

Oh right, fair enough. Armed with plenty of paperwork to prove it's valid if challenged?

A copy of NRCoC Condition 10 will suffice

10. Tickets valid only in trains of particular Train Companies
The validity of a ticket may:

a) be restricted to; or
b) prohibit
​

travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies. Any such restriction or prohibition will be shown on the ticket.