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Railway books discussion

Calthrop

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@Albaman: I had not before heard of this series; or, indeed, I think, of the firm of Foxline. Could I ask -- are all books in the series to do with north-west England, or do they cover areas further afield also?

The one as described by you, I feel that I'd find to be a "read", and a "look-at", as it were, of considerable interest. However, to be quite honest, I reckon that that would occur if the book came my way by "happenstance" -- one such which dealt with a part of the country where I had spent much time, including "way back", I'd be more likely to actively seek out. Meaning no disrespect to an area which you plainly know well, and love; it's just that I come from elsewhere in England, and have spent little time in the north-west and feel no particular attachment to it. Will however from now on, keep an eye out for works in this series.
 
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S&CLER

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@Albaman: I had not before heard of this series; or, indeed, I think, of the firm of Foxline. Could I ask -- are all books in the series to do with north-west England, or do they cover areas further afield also?

The one as described by you, I feel that I'd find to be a "read", and a "look-at", as it were, of considerable interest. However, to be quite honest, I reckon that that would occur if the book came my way by "happenstance" -- one such which dealt with a part of the country where I had spent much time, including "way back", I'd be more likely to actively seek out. Meaning no disrespect to an area which you plainly know well, and love; it's just that I come from elsewhere in England, and have spent little time in the north-west and feel no particular attachment to it. Will however from now on, keep an eye out for works in this series.
You would, I think, find the 6 volumes in this series by W.G. Rear on the railways of North Wales of great interest. They are from west to east: Anglesey Branch Lines, Bangor, Caernarvon and Afonwen/Llanberis, Conwy Valley, Corwen to Rhyl, and the Denbigh-Mold line. Turning to Mid-Wales, there are 3 other volumes om the Llangollen line, the Cambrian Coast and Bala to Blaenau (the last not by Rear).
The great strength of the series, after the lavish illustration, was the excellent track diagrams. Greg Fox, the publisher, I understand, was a professional draughtsman on the railway. There were also good volumes on the Buxton line (2 volumes), the High Peak, and the Buxton-Ashbourne branch as well as those on the northwest of England mentioned above; and some on the GC line (3 vols on Woodhead, and 2 more on the GC south of Sheffield).
 
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Calthrop

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@S&CLER: thank you ! I would for sure find most interesting: the North Wales, Mid-Wales, and Peak District, books in the series, as per your description. Am seeing as a surprising "gap in my education", my having been until now oblivious to this particular element of the British railway-books scene. I've long been aware of the "Forgotten Railways" and "Lost Railways" bodies of work -- kind-of out of the same stable, I feel, though not with exactly the same remit (and, one would feel, less detailed and scholarly); but the material discussed here over the past few days, had passed me by.
 

Mcr Warrior

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@Albaman: I had not before heard of this series; or, indeed, I think, of the firm of Foxline. Could I ask -- are all books in the series to do with north-west England, or do they cover areas further afield also?
Link below to the various books still in print under the 'Foxline' imprint. When they were first published, their titles did seem to concentrate on railway lines in the Manchester and surrounding area, but in subsequent years, they did then cover areas a little further afield, such as North and mid Wales.

 

Calthrop

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Link below to the various books still in print under the 'Foxline' imprint. When they were first published, their titles did seem to concentrate on railway lines in the Manchester and surrounding area, but in subsequent years, they did then cover areas a little further afield, such as North and mid Wales.


Many thanks !
 

S&CLER

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Link below to the various books still in print under the 'Foxline' imprint. When they were first published, their titles did seem to concentrate on railway lines in the Manchester and surrounding area, but in subsequent years, they did then cover areas a little further afield, such as North and mid Wales.

Are the BookLaw reprints on art paper like the originals were? Some of the Book Law reprints of other titles I've seen seem to be a bit muddy in photo reproduction.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Have over a dozen of the various 'Book Law' / 'Foxline' titles, and the ones published as 'Book Law' all seem to be of a similar standard to the earlier 'Foxline' versions.

The acid test would, of course, be to compare an original with a later reprint, but I try not to do two copies of the same title (although it has been known!) ;)
 

wheeltapper49

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I have just read and thoroughly enjoyed Nigel Kendall's 'last call for steam' published by Amberley books in 2019.
Full of facts and data I found 2 locos 'noted' during his visit to Salisbury on 22nd July 1961 that I believe maybe a mistake. 3206 (at the time shedded at 87J - Fishguard) and 73072 a scottish based loco at the time of his visit. All other entries are feasible. Can anybody throw any light on this mystery? Thanks in advance. Rog.
 

Albaman

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Many thanks to "Calthrop" and " S&CLER " for taking the trouble to comment on my post.

Reading my post again, I was horrified to see that I had omitted the name of the author, Stuart Taylor which was unfortunate.

During these holidays in St.Annes in 1966/67, I went on a number of day trips to various locations one of which was Crewe. My observations of the activity at Crewe station left a lasting impression and books by W.G. ( Bill ) Rear and Allan Baker on the railway operations and infrastructure around Crewe are a much valued part of my collection. I have not seen the other publications by Mr Rear but I have no doubt they are worth a look.

At an event at the beginning of 2020 where Book Law had a sales stand, I spoke to a gentleman and asked about the author and if there had been any contact with him. The gentleman replied in the negative though he did mention there was still interest in his books.

Finally, with regard to the post from "Calthrop", whilst I find details of railways operations in the Blackpool area in the early/mid 1960 fascinating, with due respects to the citizens of the Fylde, I can't honestly say that I love the area ,though I have visited it subsequently. Mr Taylor's books provide an excellent impression of that era and, although out of print, are worth the search.
 

Taunton

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I have just read and thoroughly enjoyed Nigel Kendall's 'last call for steam' published by Amberley books in 2019.
Full of facts and data I found 2 locos 'noted' during his visit to Salisbury on 22nd July 1961 that I believe maybe a mistake. 3206 (at the time shedded at 87J - Fishguard)
Didn't 3206 move on to Templecombe, just down the road from Salisbury, during the year? It was one of the regulars on the S&D in the 1960s. Can't find a 1961 photo, but here it is in 1962:


If it was actually in transit between the two sheds, it's far more straightforward to go via Salisbury than dog-legging via Bristol and Bath.
 

Gloster

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Didn't 3206 move on to Templecombe, just down the road from Salisbury, during the year? It was one of the regulars on the S&D in the 1960s. Can't find a 1961 photo, but here it is in 1962:


If it was actually in transit between the two sheds, it's far more straightforward to go via Salisbury than dog-legging via Bristol and Bath.

Shed by Shed, Part 5 has 3206 at Templecombe from 6/62 to 12/63. It was previously at Goodwick.
 

Taunton

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Just when I was riding on the S&D. I don't have records, but some vague memory is that it was 3206 itself that took me from Highbridge to Evercreech and back, just in that time. The line was about 50-50 between 22xx and 412xx.
 

Western Sunset

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Just a question if I may. How many titles were published in the D&C "Forgotten Railways" series? I know a volume was planned covering the West Country, but I don't think it ever appeared.

Regards,
Peter
 

Busaholic

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Just a question if I may. How many titles were published in the D&C "Forgotten Railways" series? I know a volume was planned covering the West Country, but I don't think it ever appeared.

Regards,
Peter
I'm no expert, but I was a bookseller for three decades. I think there were just 12 in the series, with the last published in 1989 being on the Severn Valley and Welsh Border. Unfortunately, David and Charles then sold their business to Readers Digest, who basically had no interest in publishing railway books, and certainly no expertise. David St John Thomas later published books under his own imprint, some written by himself.
 

Western Sunset

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I'm no expert, but I was a bookseller for three decades. I think there were just 12 in the series, with the last published in 1989 being on the Severn Valley and Welsh Border. Unfortunately, David and Charles then sold their business to Readers Digest, who basically had no interest in publishing railway books, and certainly no expertise. David St John Thomas later published books under his own imprint, some written by himself.
Thanks. I thought there were only 11 though - Severn Valley & Welsh Borders being Vol 11.
 

Busaholic

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Thanks. I thought there were only 11 though - Severn Valley & Welsh Borders being Vol 11.
In that case, I've misremembered and it was 11 - said I was no expert, my own transport book collection doesn't contain too many main line railway books other than on stations and architecture.
 

Calthrop

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I have just received as a birthday present from kind relatives -- humouring me in what they regard as my weird railway obsession -- the facsimile edition by Old House Books & Maps, of the 1863 Bradshaw's Descriptive Railway Hand-Book of Great Britain and Ireland; with which great play is made by Michael Portillo in his television programmes about his travels by rail to assorted places. Have as yet done little more than dipping into it here and there; but my immediate reaction has been to find it a delight -- of great interest, and entertaining in various ways, some of them unexpected.

The arrangement of the book will take some getting used to; as regards geography, it appears to be strangely random -- no orderly or logical overall geographical scheme of things, throughout the book. Railways are of course consistently and routinely referred to, as means of getting to the multitude of "places of interest"; but the basic "meat" of the book is those places, and their envisaged attractions -- sometimes, lack thereof -- for the 1860s tourist. Re the book's railway content: with my taking a less-than-intense interest in the finer points of 19th-century railway history -- I found it initially a little surprising, just how much of what would ultimately be Great Britain's rail network as at peak, was already open and in traffic as at 1863; including a fair few of what would strike me as obscure and minor branch lines. There came back to memory, the fact of a definite majority of what is now this island's basic rail network having been built and opened by 1860: some ten thousand miles, i.e. roughly the same total mileage as at the present day. The great additional mileage which came into being over the half-century succeeding 1860, was in the greater part, "twiddly bits" of one kind and another -- this being obviously a generalisation: not the whole story in every particular, but in the main a valid enough generalisation.

Now and again of course there surface in the book, situations featuring parts of the rail system not yet in existence. Concerning what we now call the Heart of Wales Line: Bradshaw remarks of the "Knighton Railway, Craven Arms to Knighton" -- "This line is only twelve miles long, but it is intended subsequently to extend it in connection with the Central Wales and Llanelly Railways to South Wales Line, thereby bringing Milford Haven and the South Wales Districts in direct communication with the more important manufacturing districts of the North West." [The book tells of this route's southern part ending at the time, at "Lampeter Road" station -- presumably modern Llanwrda.] I was prompted initially to wonder whether Mr. Bradshaw was getting confused here with the Manchester & Milford Railway; which at that very time was doing its thing, or trying to -- but some way to the west of the "Heart of Wales" route. It would seem however -- no confusion on the author's part: just, a considerable focus some century-and-a-half ago, on Milford Haven as a significant general port and traffic-flow goal; the place would seem nowadays not to be seen in that context -- being prominent only in an "oil" one.

One has to feel impressed by Bradshaw's devotion to duty in describing the attractions also, of parts of the British Isles which were as yet railway-less in 1863. These include the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands -- still a few years away from the inauguration of their first railways. (The author seems, though, to do a poor job as regards informing would-be visitors to those islands, as to the "where and how" of, presumably, horse-drawn road transport which they would need for getting around: it would appear that here, the "punters" are thrown upon their own initiative and resources.)

Not wishing to go on at too great length: will just say that the Hand-Book's non-railway-related content is being found entertaining, and full of for this reader, wonderful "period" touches: the author's writing here, varies between lyrical / humorous / coy / and now and then, surprisingly dismissive and "disrecommending". Can recommend this work to anyone with any degree of interest / curiosity about how things were, when railways were essentially a new phenomenon.
 
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S&CLER

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I have just received as a birthday present from kind relatives -- humouring me in what they regard as my weird railway obsession -- the facsimile edition by Old House Books & Maps, of the 1863 Bradshaw's Descriptive Railway Hand-Book of Great Britain and Ireland; with which great play is made by Michael Portillo in his television programmes about his travels by rail to assorted places. Have as yet done little more than dipping into it here and there; but my immediate reaction has been to find it a delight -- of great interest, and entertaining in various ways, some of them unexpected.

The arrangement of the book will take some getting used to; as regards geography, it appears to be strangely random -- no orderly or logical overall geographical scheme of things, throughout the book. Railways are of course consistently and routinely referred to, as means of getting to the multitude of "places of interest"; but the basic "meat" of the book is those places, and their envisaged attractions -- sometimes, lack thereof -- for the 1860s tourist. Re the book's railway content: with my taking a less-than-intense interest in the finer points of 19th-century railway history -- I found it initially a little surprising, just how much of what would ultimately be Great Britain's rail network as at peak, was already open and in traffic as at 1863; including a fair few of what would strike me as obscure and minor branch lines. There came back to memory, the fact of a definite majority of what is now this island's basic rail network having been built and opened by 1860: some ten thousand miles, i.e. roughly the same total mileage as at the present day. The great additional mileage which came into being over the half-century succeeding 1860, was in the greater part, "twiddly bits" of one kind and another -- this being obviously a generalisation: not the whole story in every particular, but in the main a valid enough generalisation.

Now and again of course there surface in the book, situations featuring parts of the rail system not yet in existence. Concerning what we now call the Heart of Wales Line -- Bradshaw remarks of the "Knighton Railway, Craven Arms to Knighton": "This line is only twelve miles long, but it is intended subsequently to extend it in connection with the Central Wales and Llanelly Railways to South Wales Line, thereby bringing Milford Haven and the South Wales Districts in direct communication with the more important manufacturing districts of the North West." [The book tells of this route's southern part ending at the time, at "Lampeter Road" station -- presumably modern Llanwrda.] I was prompted initially to wonder whether Mr. Bradshaw was getting confused here with the Manchester & Milford Railway; which at that very time was doing its thing, or trying to -- but some way to the west of the "Heart of Wales" route. It would seem however -- no confusion on the author's part: just, a considerable focus some century-and-a-half ago, on Milford Haven as a significant general port and traffic-flow goal; the place would seem nowadays not to be seen in that context -- being prominent only in an "oil" one.

One has to feel impressed by Bradshaw's devotion to duty in describing the attractions also, of parts of the British Isles which were as yet railway-less in 1863. These include the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands -- still a few years away from the inauguration of their first railways. (The author seems, though, to do a poor job as regards informing would-be visitors to those islands, as to the "where and how" of, presumably, horse-drawn road transport which they would need for getting around: it would appear that here, the "punters" are thrown upon their own initiative and resources.)

Not wishing to go on at too great length: will just say that the Hand-Book's non-railway-related content is being found entertaining, and full of for this reader, wonderful "period" touches: the author's writing here, varies between lyrical / humorous / coy / and now and then, surprisingly dismissive and "disrecommending". Can recommend this work to anyone with any degree of interest / curiosity about how things were, when railways were essentially a new phenomenon.
If you liked Bradshaw's handbook, you would probably also like Edward Churton's Rail Road Book of England, first published in 1851 and reprinted by Sidgwick and Jackson in 1973. It contains a fascinating map showing lines open and lines under construction, e.g. the GN main line not quite complete. The arrangement is by line of route, starting with London to Edinburgh via Birmingham, then via York, followed by London to Yarmouth via Cambridge, London to Brighton, Dorchester, Dover and Margate, London to Plymouth and then some lesser lines in the southeast e.g. the North Kent line to Rochester. A second volume may have been produced, but the reprint I have is of volume I only. It is not uncommon in second-hand bookshops.
 

Calthrop

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Mr. Churton's book as you describe, does sound most interesting. I've mentioned its being brought home to me via Bradshaw, how very much of Great Britain's "core" rail system as active today, had come into operational being by circa 1860 -- a prodigious amount of work and achievement over, essentially, thirty years. I'd figure -- and you would seem to confirm -- that, however: a round decade earlier, in 1851 (year of the Great Exhibition !) the rail map would have looked noticeably sparser, with assorted vital bits still not in action.

Churton's geographical order would seem rather more systematic and sense-making, than Bradshaw's appeared initially to me. Looking further, though: Bradshaw's approach geography-wise, strikes me as a bit less crazy than it did on first acquaintance. He divides the book into four sections: which are not totally random; but would appear, oddly enough, to correspond very roughly to the areas of the "Big Four" of the Grouping, sixty-some years into the future (Ireland is tacked on to the Great Western-equivalent ). Re far-flung parts mentioned in my previous post: the Isle of Man is included in the LMS-equivalent; and the Channel Islands, in the Southern ditto. The Isle of Wight belongs, of course, in the Southern-equivalent -- rates some seven pages. The book gives an outline of, seemingly quite well-provided, horse-drawn coach services on the Island -- a sort of Proto-Southern Vectis? Railways on Wight were as at 1863, very much in their infancy -- just then, with one line only, Cowes -- Newport: opened the previous year. The Hand-Book mentions it briefly and, I feel, a bit dismissively: "For those who desire to travel quickly from Newport to West Cowes, a railway communication has been opened out. It takes a direct course along the western side of the Medina." The Isle of Wight Railway's first section, Ryde -- Shanklin, was not to open until the following year, 1864.
 

Calthrop

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Not truly a "railway book": but, a book -- and featuring railways and an aspect of them liked by many of us participating on these Forums; and I'm maybe just now at a loose end ...

Have been reading recently, a murder-mystery novel by Peter Lovesey, a prolific author of many such, and a favourite of mine: this one being in his most-acclaimed series, set in Bath and with central character Superintendent Peter Diamond, head of the Police's murder squad for that city. This particular offering -- Another One Goes Tonight, published 2016 (in my opinion, plot-wise getting into grotesquely hard-to-swallow realms; but entertaining) -- prominently features the railway-enthusiast "fancy" and its adherents. There is in this work, a fair amount of good-humoured and non-malicious poking of gentle fun at the enthusiast "community" -- I feel that we have to admit that to those who don't "get" the aspects of the whole subject, that delight us: we sometimes come across as a bit strange.

Also: a bit of rail-related material, in which the author has in a 2014 / 15 time-frame, full-on electrification work proceeding on the ex-GW main line through Bath. Unless one is a super-accuracy-zealot, fair enough: it's fiction, author entitled to mild flights of fancy, especially when necessary to the plot. This aside: assorted railway-enthusiasm-related "comicalities"; the wealthy principal deceased character, his death seen as potentially suspicious, leaving £ two-and-a-half-million to the National Railway Museum; after his funeral, an unseemly scramble among his attending enthusiast friends, for his declared-up-for-grabs railway memorabilia; and a local railway society split a while previously by a schism almost religious in its intensity, between the broader-minded "orthodox", and a breakaway group which wish attention to be confined exclusively to the Great Western.

Considerable humour also, centring on Supt. Diamond and his team -- none of them "into" the railway hobby -- trying to make sense of this particular weirdness. Part of the plot involves a great deal of possibly evidential material on-computer. Trawling through this, gets -- because of her computer skills, far superior to those of the team's "old fogies" -- assigned to a fairly junior member: a very bright, very switched-on young woman of great general "coolth", liable to regard male nerds with more than a little contempt. Quote from her, early on: "My guess is that we're talking arrested development here, eternal schoolboys who like playing trains and belong to some kind of club. Sad; but compared to holding up banks, less harmless". This in italics -- "sic", as in book -- hopefully, a not-picked-up typo for equivalent of "less harmful" ! For most of the book, the poor lass endures the torment of wading through enormous quantities of this stuff on computer: quoting her late in the book, "If I never have to read another sentence about old trains, I won't feel deprived".

Suspected, that some might feel insulted by this general tone: I personally, found it funny. A matter of what one's "take" happens to be -- groups who will tend, whatever may happen, to be ridiculed and maybe disliked: are apt to self-deprecatingly mock at themselves; getting in before the self-proclaimed others, who will mock anyway !

(In this thriller, it ends up -- satisfyingly -- that despite appearances through most of the narrative, none of the railway-enthusiast characters have committed any of the murders involved. Weird maybe, but free from the Mark of Cain.)
 
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Western Sunset

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I've read a couple of the earlier ones about Supt Diamond and found them entertaining. I can never guess who does it in any of these types of books... Will lookout for this one.

Currently reading the "Vera Stanhope" series by Ann Cleeves. One thing (railwaywise) does bug me with these though. In the first couple of books, Vera lives in her dad's old house alongside the ECML. Later the same house (with Vera still living there) seems to be transported into the middle of nowhere, high up in the moors, accessed down a long narrow track.
 

Calthrop

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I'm a great fan of Lovesey's work (the guy is aged 85, but still writing away, his "marbles" looking to be gratifyingly intact) -- the Diamond series most of all (there are now pushing-twenty of them -- I've read the lot); but have enjoyed other stuff by him too: including some set in the 19th century -- bizarre, but great fun; one with the marvellous title of Wobble To Death: someone commented, "sounds like an apocalyptic tale of invasion by zombie alien jellyfish" -- in fact it's about a murder on the walking-race sporting scene, which was apparently "big" in Victorian times.

Haven't myself encountered Ann Cleeves / Vera Stanhope -- should maybe investigate. Re the inconsistency which you mention: call me sexist, but I tend to find that fiction (historical, or present-day) by female writers, tends -- when railway detail is involved -- toward errors therein; part of the, no doubt male-chauvinist, "meme" of "girls think trains are boring, and aren't interested in them and can't understand why we are". An admirable exception thereto, for me, is Carola Dunn's "Daisy Dalrymple" whodunnit series -- of which I have in the past written admiringly on these Forums, in "Railway History and Nostalgia": in this series, set in the 1920s, Ms. Dunn usually gets the railway material (the characters do a lot of travelling by rail) pretty well spot-on -- one or two tiny glitches, but on the whole, full marks.
 

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I agree with you about Peter Lovesey, although I prefer the older Sergeant Cribb books. I also agree that Carola Dunn does get her historical details (almost always) correct: I have only found a couple of small errors. Although US based, I think she is English born and bred. One other female author, who I will not mention, has several enormous railway errors in the first couple of pages that are so elementary that I haven’t been able to get any further as I keep thinking that if these errors are typical of her research, what else is she going to get wrong.

One error I have found in a number of books, by both male and female authors, is getting the number of years since something further back occurred wrong. If a book set in 1920 was written in 2000, but some incident refers back to something in 1850, a character mentioning it would say it was ‘seventy years ago’. However, on a number of occasions the author has counted back from the time of writing and written ‘a hundred and fifty years ago’.
 

Calthrop

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Carola is indeed English-born; though she has lived in Oregon for the past three decades or so. (I find Lovesey's Cribb, good fun -- also the few in which the author has the future Edward VII as a very-unlikely sleuth -- but I'm pretty much wedded to the Diamond series.)

Lady authors messing it up: a classic example thereof for me (I've mentioned it elsewhere on this sub-forum -- in the Gavin and Stacey Episode 2 sub-thread, though my post had nothing to do with those two worthies) -- Catherine Alliott's The Secret Life of Evie Hamilton (which I'd reckon basically a good yarn, if one has any use for chick-lit); but at one point therein, the heroine is -- around the turn of the 20th / 21st centuries -- travelling by rail from Sheffield to Oxford. Somewhere south of Sheffield, she finds a convenient change of train at -- of all venues -- Gosport; whence she travels to London (Paddington); whence a prompt connection to Oxford. From wherever-on-earth the author got, in this context, Gosport? -- seems so mad, as to be almost inspired ...

The "numbers" thing -- figurably, maybe a blind spot for many authors; but, for me, no excuse: I'm not being a numeracy-snob -- there's a yard-wide strain of innumeracy in my family -- but, if one is aware that that's a problem for one (as I feel, one should) -- then, take extra care ! -- get outside help / advice / proof-reading !
 
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Gloster

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It is not just the girls who get it wrong: even the most reputable of the boys can. I am fairly sure that in one of Robert Goddard’s books one of the characters is returning from the West Country (Exeter, I think) and, in a fairly important plot point, sees two other characters on the platform at Westbury. Unfortunately, this book is set in the nineteenth century, well before the cut-offs were built and when the GWR was still the Great Way Round.
 

AndrewE

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I really enjoyed "Nine Elms Engineman" by A E "Bert" Hooker, pub. Bradford Barton ISBN 0 85153 454 6
Having had a couple of days as a guest of the fireman on a major preserved railway, and also having passed out to run a 5" gauge steam loco for public haulage I found it fascinating.
He talks about all aspects of footplate work from the '30s to the end of steam, including working a steam loco "full out" - 100% cutoff and full regulator.
Although a driver by then he went as fireman on the Southern locos on the Locomotive exchanges and has some pretty caustic comments on Crewe men's firing techniques ("fill it right up and leave it!") Which casts some light on their objections to working the Duke of Gloucester... I have read another comment that - fired "correctly" - it was a wonderful engine and never let the footplatemen down.
 

Calthrop

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It is not just the girls who get it wrong: even the most reputable of the boys can. I am fairly sure that in one of Robert Goddard’s books one of the characters is returning from the West Country (Exeter, I think) and, in a fairly important plot point, sees two other characters on the platform at Westbury. Unfortunately, this book is set in the nineteenth century, well before the cut-offs were built and when the GWR was still the Great Way Round.

I can be fairly dim on these matters: haven't read anything by Robert Goddard -- had the impression that the milieu about which he wrote, was "Eurocracy": nothing political on my part, just the feeling that the subject seemed to me, anaesthetically boring. Maybe I have the guy totally wrong -- had no idea that he set any of his books, in times past.

Re the Westbury "howler": a thing discovered by me via devotees of the speculative-fiction author S.M. Stirling, with whom I've had a love / hate relationship -- the concept of a time in the past which was mostly, as per real history / "our time-line", but just a little bit different in a few aspects -- whence endless small jiggerings possible -- this called by the aficionados, a bit rudely, "fanwanking". Maybe per Goddard's novel: in its time-line, there might have come to be in the 19th century, a third main-line railway between London and the south-west -- the London & West Country Railway, maybe -- running say from its London terminus: through Wokingham, Mortimer, Ludgershall, Westbury, Wells, Glastonbury, Ilminster, Cullompton, Crediton (junction for branch to Exeter); then taking it like a man over the top of Dartmoor to Princetown, Yelverton and Plymouth ... Goddard's character could have taken the L&WC from Exeter, because of its offering a significantly cheaper fare than its GW and LSW rivals, offsetting the annoying change at Crediton ...
 

Gloster

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With Goddard, and I am fairly sure it was him, I think it was a simple mistake: assuming the main line via Westbury was built in the same era as other mainlines. He is normally a fairly thorough researcher, but even Homer nods. His books to cover a variety of areas: some are purely historical, some mix past and present (*), some are purely modern or at least recent. Locations vary from purely or substantially home-based to Europe and elsewhere.

He has a far wider range than many authors and usually a new protagonist in each book: there are a couple of trilogies. I prefer the historical or mixed historical/modern books and have generally been more satisfied by his earlier works, although some of the recent ones are reasonable.

* - In the sense of past events affecting modern ones, not time-travel. False landscapes are not his style.

I
 

Calthrop

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With Goddard, and I am fairly sure it was him, I think it was a simple mistake: assuming the main line via Westbury was built in the same era as other mainlines. He is normally a fairly thorough researcher, but even Homer nods. His books to cover a variety of areas: some are purely historical, some mix past and present (*), some are purely modern or at least recent. Locations vary from purely or substantially home-based to Europe and elsewhere.

He has a far wider range than many authors and usually a new protagonist in each book: there are a couple of trilogies. I prefer the historical or mixed historical/modern books and have generally been more satisfied by his earlier works, although some of the recent ones are reasonable.

* - In the sense of past events affecting modern ones, not time-travel. False landscapes are not his style.

I

Having Googled Goddard: I'm now thinking "mistaken identity" -- am suspecting that the author whose stock-in-trade is EU politics / bureaucracy, is a different Robert; I've been avoiding Goddard thanks to confusing him with the other chap ! Visiting my local library, later today -- hope to investigate further.

With the subject of fictional foul-ups concerning London -- West Country rail journeys in past times, having come up: I can't resist citing one encountered earlier this year, which amused me. My regrettable quasi-misogynistic tendency comes up again, I'm afraid -- the feeling that most female authors who "tangle with" railway detail: can't properly get their heads round it, and get stuff wrong, no matter how hard they try. A couple of months ago, I made a post largely re this particular instance, in a topic-drift in the Gavin and Stacey Episode 2 thread on this sub-forum -- can't restrain self from telling of it here too !

The novel is Night Shall Overtake Us by Kate Saunders, another favourite author of mine: set in the fifteen-odd years before / during / after World War I -- for me mostly (with a couple of reservations) an enjoyable and moving read, if one likes that kind of thing. At one point -- in summer 1914, just before the erupting of you-know-what -- a couple of the characters undertake a hasty day's journey from London to Barnstaple and return, to track down and confront in their rural retreat, other characters re a personal crisis then taking place. The journey as recounted, has one feeling that Kate has tried to do her homework concerning such a rail journey at that particular date; but made a not-very-good job of same, ending up with a "worst of both worlds" deal. They travel by GWR express from Paddington to Exeter; where they "change to a little lurching branch-line train, full of farmers' wives, which took them as far as Barnstaple" (one wonders why this seeming snobbish disdain for farmers' wives -- would those ladies not be found, on the whole, to be thoroughly worthy and admirable citizens?). Their remote ultimate destination has to be reached by road from Barnstaple -- the narrow-gauge L & B unfortunately does not get a part in the drama. And clearly from the context, they go back the same way: LSWR from Barnstaple to Exeter, then GWR express Exeter -- London.

One would think that in 1914, a person desirous of making such a journey would do so either using the GWR throughout: express Paddington -- Taunton, then Taunton -- Dulverton -- Barnstaple; or all-LSWR: Waterloo -- Exeter, whence at least some kind of semi-fast (maybe through) working to Barnstaple -- presumably fairly free of the farmers'-wife menace which seems to bother the characters; and similarly in the London-bound direction. The novel's characters are pretty intelligent and on-the-ball; and presumably there was in pre-Grouping times, ample advice available to the public concerning the most expeditious ways of travelling by rail between A and B.

Further reprehensible prejudice on my part, concerning "lady authors and railways" -- have lately been re-reading The Far Pavilions by M.M. Kaye -- a sort of Indian equivalent of Gone With The Wind: again, in my opinion terrific stuff "if one likes"... At one point in the complicated and eventful narrative, there is a bit of railway detail which I think the author -- though born in India and having spent much of her life there, and in the main very knowledgeable about "things Indian" -- has got wrong. It's 1878: the hero -- an officer in Britain's army in India -- is being transferred from a posting in what is nowadays Gujarat, to the North-West Frontier. He wishes to take with him, his favourite and valuable horse (as you do...); thus, is conferring with the stationmaster at Ahmadabad about horse-boxes for the purpose. Paraphrasing -- the helpful stationmaster warns him of the difficulties and the much advance-planning which will be involved: "... there are too many trains, all of different gauges ... I obtain a horse-box for you on the Bombay and Baroda line ... but that is only a small part of your journey ... what will occur when you arrive at Bombay Central and find that none is available on the Great Indian Peninsula Railway, to which you will transfer there? Or when you must change at Aligarh onto the East Indian Railway line, which is again different gauge, and there is likewise no horse-box?" ("[sic]" applies definitely, I think, to several things in this last sentence).

I much suspect, from what I, a bit vaguely, know (don't have available full chapter-and-verse to quote, if challenged); that as well as the railway geography of the northern end of the described putative journey, seeming decidedly dodgy -- the author's attempt at providing "local colour" re the suggested gauge-related chaos, gets into realms of considerable error. The implication is, of India's being as Australia was in former days, with a very inconvenient wild mish-mash of different gauges. This was in fact never the case: main lines there were either 5ft. 6in. gauge (the entire putative journey as above, would have been on 5ft. 6in.); or metre gauge -- used essentially for main lines of secondary importance, in certain parts of India only. Furthermore -- in 1878 when this part of the story's action takes place: by my understanding, use of metre gauge in India was then in an initial, minimal stage -- basically, the metre-gauge secondary network grew up only in the last couple of decades of the 19th century, and thence in the 20th.

By all ideas of sensible behaviour: this kind of nitpicking by eccentric folk such as us, of factual-or-not railway minutiae in fiction which is essentially about other subjects anyway -- is, putting it as politely as possible, a strange way to carry on; but we're apt to enjoy it, and it doesn't harm anyone -- certainly not the authors, in the shape of lost income because of people boycotting their books ! A thing which not only railway enthusiasts do: many people find that, concerning their job or profession re which they are of course very well-informed -- fiction writing / films / TV drama, touching tangentially on whatever the subject may be, are frequently riddled with smallish errors about it. There has been plentiful correspondence on these Forums, particularly about such howlers in films: on railway, and other, issues.
 
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S&CLER

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Having Googled Goddard: I'm now thinking "mistaken identity" -- am suspecting that the author whose stock-in-trade is EU politics / bureaucracy, is a different Robert; I've been avoiding Goddard thanks to confusing him with the other chap ! Visiting my local library, later today -- hope to investigate further.

With the subject of fictional foul-ups concerning London -- West Country rail journeys in past times, having come up: I can't resist citing one encountered earlier this year, which amused me. My regrettable quasi-misogynistic tendency comes up again, I'm afraid -- the feeling that most female authors who "tangle with" railway detail: can't properly get their heads round it, and get stuff wrong, no matter how hard they try. A couple of months ago, I made a post largely re this particular instance, in a topic-drift in the Gavin and Stacey Episode 2 thread on this sub-forum -- can't restrain self from telling of it here too !

The novel is Night Shall Overtake Us by Kate Saunders, another favourite author of mine: set in the fifteen-odd years before / during / after World War I -- for me mostly (with a couple of reservations) an enjoyable and moving read, if one likes that kind of thing. At one point -- in summer 1914, just before the erupting of you-know-what -- a couple of the characters undertake a hasty day's journey from London to Barnstaple and return, to track down and confront in their rural retreat, other characters re a personal crisis then taking place. The journey as recounted, has one feeling that Kate has tried to do her homework concerning such a rail journey at that particular date; but made a not-very-good job of same, ending up with a "worst of both worlds" deal. They travel by GWR express from Paddington to Exeter; where they "change to a little lurching branch-line train, full of farmers' wives, which took them as far as Barnstaple" (one wonders why this seeming snobbish disdain for farmers' wives -- would those ladies not be found, on the whole, to be thoroughly worthy and admirable citizens?). Their remote ultimate destination has to be reached by road from Barnstaple -- the narrow-gauge L & B unfortunately does not get a part in the drama. And clearly from the context, they go back the same way: LSWR from Barnstaple to Exeter, then GWR express Exeter -- London.

One would think that in 1914, a person desirous of making such a journey would do so either using the GWR throughout: express Paddington -- Taunton, then Taunton -- Dulverton -- Barnstaple; or all-LSWR: Waterloo -- Exeter, whence at least some kind of semi-fast (maybe through) working to Barnstaple -- presumably fairly free of the farmers'-wife menace which seems to bother the characters; and similarly in the London-bound direction. The novel's characters are pretty intelligent and on-the-ball; and presumably there was in pre-Grouping times, ample advice available to the public concerning the most expeditious ways of travelling by rail between A and B.

Further reprehensible prejudice on my part, concerning "lady authors and railways" -- have lately been re-reading The Far Pavilions by M.M. Kaye -- a sort of Indian equivalent of Gone With The Wind: again, in my opinion terrific stuff "if one likes"... At one point in the complicated and eventful narrative, there is a bit of railway detail which I think the author -- though born in India and having spent much of her life there, and in the main very knowledgeable about "things Indian" -- has got wrong. It's 1878: the hero -- an officer in Britain's army in India -- is being transferred from a posting in what is nowadays Gujarat, to the North-West Frontier. He wishes to take with him, his favourite and valuable horse (as you do...); thus, is conferring with the stationmaster at Ahmadabad about horse-boxes for the purpose. Paraphrasing -- the helpful stationmaster warns him of the difficulties and the much advance-planning which will be involved: "... there are too many trains, all of different gauges ... I obtain a horse-box for you on the Bombay and Baroda line ... but that is only a small part of your journey ... what will occur when you arrive at Bombay Central and find that none is available on the Great Indian Peninsula Railway, to which you will transfer there? Or when you must change at Aligarh onto the East Indian Railway line, which is again different gauge, and there is likewise no horse-box? ("[sic]" applies definitely, I think, to several things in this last sentence).

I much suspect, from what I, a bit vaguely, know (don't have available full chapter-and-verse to quote, if challenged); that as well as the railway geography of the northern end of the described putative journey, seeming decidedly dodgy -- the author's attempt at providing "local colour" re the suggested gauge-related chaos, gets into realms of considerable error. The implication is, of India's being as Australia was in former days, with a very inconvenient wild mish-mash of different gauges. This was in fact never the case: main lines there were either 5ft. 6in. gauge (the entire putative journey as above, would have been on 5ft. 6in.); or metre gauge -- used essentially for main lines of secondary importance, in certain parts of India only. Furthermore -- in 1878 when this part of the story's action takes place: by my understanding, use of metre gauge in India was then in an initial, minimal stage -- basically, the metre-gauge secondary network grew up only in the last couple of decades of the 19th century, and thence in the 20th.

By all ideas of sensible behaviour: this kind of nitpicking by eccentric folk such as us, of factual-or-not railway minutiae in fiction which is essentially about other subjects anyway -- is, putting it as politely as possible, a strange way to carry on; but we're apt to enjoy it, and it doesn't harm anyone -- certainly not the authors, in the shape of lost income because of people boycotting their books ! A thing which not only railway enthusiasts do: many people find that, concerning their job or profession re which they are of course very well-informed -- fiction writing / films / TV drama, touching tangentially on whatever the subject may be, are frequently riddled with smallish errors about it. There has been plentiful correspondence on these Forums, particularly about such howlers in films: on railway, and other, issues.
There is a notorious case of faulty geography in R.B Cunninghame Graham's short story "Beattock for Moffat". The hero is on an overnight LNWR train for Scotland, which is said to stop an instant at Shap "to let a goods train pass", which sounds peculiar. They then stop at Penrith, and then "Little Salkeld and Armathwaite, Cotehill and Scotby all rushed past". The problem is that those 4 places are stations on the Midland route down the Eden Valley.
 

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