• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Railway Implications of the 2021 Elections

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mordac

Established Member
Joined
5 Mar 2016
Messages
2,314
Location
Birmingham
Thread specifically to discuss the railway implications, rather than the actual politics outwith the railway.

My first guess is that Ben Houchen will get the Darlington station remodelling he's been pushing for!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

jw

Member
Joined
25 Jul 2010
Messages
167
Here in the West of England, most candidates have committed to seeing through the MetroWest rail plans, with the Portishead line reopening and passenger service on the Henbury spur. One or two mentions of Charfield too. We'll see...
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
The Cambridgeshire & Peterborough Mayoral choice will influence whether the Cambridgeshire Autonomous Metro (a tenuous definition of "rail", I know) continues to make any progress. It's the Tory incumbent's pet project, but both the Labour and Lib Dem candidates (rightly) want to review it.

Plus the other stuff that's aspired in the area, such as Cambridge South Station.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,770
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Probably no change in Wales, the Transport minister Ken Skates was re-elected, though he might be reshuffled in a new cabinet (and is well regarded).
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,963

Road and rail building plans under review after Covid

Multi-billion pound plans for roads and railways in the UK are being reviewed, as travel patterns shift in response to the Covid pandemic.
It comes as BBC research suggests 43 of the UK's biggest employers won't bring workers back to the office full-time.
Traffic is expected to be below the long term average.
The BBC has learned that civil servants are studying transport expansion plans to see which are still viable.

I think COVID will have more impact than the 2021 Elections - certainly in England. Scotland comes across as pro railway and wires. Wales probably pro railway, probably.
 

Tobbes

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2012
Messages
1,242
The big difference could come from the "Union Connectivity Review" which could decide that HS2 should be extended to Glasgow/Edinburgh as a priority, which would be presented as part of the rationale for Scotland to stay in the UK.
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,423
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
Good name for a Transport minister.
Unless the meaning of hauling away a defective vehicle at a crawl on flat runners while causing service chaos is used!

My high-level take on it is that, given the fundamental Tory disdain for railways, they will take the results as an excuse to move towards roads. The results appear to follow the old pattern of sitting governments garnering votes during crises (wars, pandemics, etc.), so allowing Johnson's glib and empty promise of a 'green recovery' to vanish as easily as all his others.
 
Last edited:

Aictos

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2009
Messages
10,403
The Cambridgeshire & Peterborough Mayoral choice will influence whether the Cambridgeshire Autonomous Metro (a tenuous definition of "rail", I know) continues to make any progress. It's the Tory incumbent's pet project, but both the Labour and Lib Dem candidates (rightly) want to review it.

Plus the other stuff that's aspired in the area, such as Cambridge South Station.
Personally as a former Cambridgeshire resident, the CAM scheme is a waste of funds when a simple extension of the busway there would suffice or if possible a tram network. Hopefully whoever wins here will cancel the CAM and kills it off.

On the other hand, Cambridge South needs to happen so I hope they crack on with that.
 

A0wen

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,528
Unless the meaning of hauling away a defective vehicle at a crawl on flat runners while causing service chaos is used!

My high-level take on it is that, given the fundamental Tory disdain for railways, they will take the results as an excuse to move towards roads. The results appear to follow the old pattern of sitting governments garnering votes during crises (wars, pandemics, etc.), so allowing Johnson's glib and empty promise of a 'green recovery' to vanish as easily as all his others.

Bib - that is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Perhaps you'd like to tell us about all the rail improvements and investment which took place during Labour's last term of office ? (Hint, there wasn't much. And they deliberately pushed Railtrack into administration which was irresponsible). TFL, one of Labour's pet projects is a financial basket case and has the financial discipline of an incontinent puppy.

You'll need to provide evidence to support your claim of "Tory disdain" for the railways, and I'll give you a tip, before you try repeating quotes attributed to Margaret Thatcher, do your research and find sources which confirm them - somebody else on these forums didn't do that recently, and had to backtrack when asked for evidence.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
25,013
Location
Nottingham
Bib - that is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Perhaps you'd like to tell us about all the rail improvements and investment which took place during Labour's last term of office ? (Hint, there wasn't much. And they deliberately pushed Railtrack into administration which was irresponsible). TFL, one of Labour's pet projects is a financial basket case and has the financial discipline of an incontinent puppy.

You'll need to provide evidence to support your claim of "Tory disdain" for the railways, and I'll give you a tip, before you try repeating quotes attributed to Margaret Thatcher, do your research and find sources which confirm them - somebody else on these forums didn't do that recently, and had to backtrack when asked for evidence.
TfL is a basket case mainly because the previous mayor (now who would that be?) agreed with DfT to end central funding. That had a far greater effect than the fares freeze, and contributed to DfT having TfL over a barrel when the revenues dried up due to Covid.

However you are correct that some Conservatives have pushed forward with rail improvements. HS2 is the most obvious, thought there's also a sizeable faction of the party opposed to it. But there are also the Wolverhampton-Walsall and Camp Hill services to be introduced in the West Midlands with five new stations, and the Northumberland line, plus possibly Darlington as mentioned above. The reform of the GRIP process into PACE/Speed probably has a lot to do with trying to demonstrate some concrete improvements before the next election. Restoring Your Railways may or may not result in any actual improvements, but the fact it is being punted around indicates that the Tory party sees rail improvements as a vote-winner. So while I believe our current government is reprehensible on many counts, including electrification, I don't really fault them on their ambitions for increasing the scope of the rail network.
 

Tomos y Tanc

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2019
Messages
648
I should think Labour taking over the Bristol metro mayor post from the Conservatives, together with the union connectivity review will to increased pressure for better and more frequent services on the Bristol - Cardiff corridor. It's one of those things everyone says should happen but never actually does.
 

Tobbes

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2012
Messages
1,242
I should think Labour taking over the Bristol metro mayor post from the Conservatives, together with the union connectivity review will to increased pressure for better and more frequent services on the Bristol - Cardiff corridor. It's one of those things everyone says should happen but never actually does.
That's really interesting, Tomos
 

squizzler

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2017
Messages
1,906
Location
Jersey, Channel Islands
You'll need to provide evidence to support your claim of "Tory disdain" for the railways, and I'll give you a tip, before you try repeating quotes attributed to Margaret Thatcher, do your research and find sources which confirm them - somebody else on these forums didn't do that recently, and had to backtrack when asked for evidence.
Remember when the Conservative party was the party of road construction and friend of the motorist? To put that in context, they were the pro-European party then too, with the left being that which was sceptical of the open market basis of the European project.
 

Nicholas Lewis

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2019
Messages
6,184
Location
Surrey
The railways have been well supported by Tories for last 10years but they've failed to confront the fault lines that emerged from GW electrification and the West Coast refranchise fiasco and by continuing launching one review after another they've perpetuated and deepened those fault lines. Lets see whether railways get a mention in next weeks Queens Speech to see if we finally get the Shapps version of the Williams review or not as that will indicate future direction of industry.
 

ABB125

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2016
Messages
3,785
Location
University of Birmingham
James Palmer (Con, Cambridgeshire) has been replaced by Nik Johnson (Lab). Interesting times ahead for the Cambridge Autonomous Metro...
 

A0wen

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,528
Remember when the Conservative party was the party of road construction and friend of the motorist? To put that in context, they were the pro-European party then too, with the left being that which was sceptical of the open market basis of the European project.

Assuming you're talking about the 1960s, its worth remembering Labour campaigned in 1964 on stopping the Beeching closures only to press ahead with virtually every closure once in office including high profile ones like the Great Central mainline and the Waverley route.
 

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
11,503
James Palmer (Con, Cambridgeshire) has been replaced by Nik Johnson (Lab). Interesting times ahead for the Cambridge Autonomous Metro...
That's Dr Nik to you!

The CAM which wasn't going to happen either way?
 

JamesT

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2015
Messages
2,737
TfL is a basket case mainly because the previous mayor (now who would that be?) agreed with DfT to end central funding. That had a far greater effect than the fares freeze, and contributed to DfT having TfL over a barrel when the revenues dried up due to Covid.

The removal of the block grant was in exchange for London getting a greater share of business rates, which could be put towards TfL funding. Didn’t that happen?
 

Jozhua

Established Member
Joined
6 Jan 2019
Messages
1,860
Hopefully CAM will be reviewed and replaced with something that will actually work!

Burnham wants to bring Manchester's buses under control, which could potentially change how that network interacts with the Metrolink and national rail system. Additionally wishes to extend Metrolink to areas of the city that do not have it.

Bib - that is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Perhaps you'd like to tell us about all the rail improvements and investment which took place during Labour's last term of office ? (Hint, there wasn't much. And they deliberately pushed Railtrack into administration which was irresponsible). TFL, one of Labour's pet projects is a financial basket case and has the financial discipline of an incontinent puppy.

You'll need to provide evidence to support your claim of "Tory disdain" for the railways, and I'll give you a tip, before you try repeating quotes attributed to Margaret Thatcher, do your research and find sources which confirm them - somebody else on these forums didn't do that recently, and had to backtrack when asked for evidence.
I mean most of the parties have pretty bad transport policy. New Labour was basically a continuation of the Conservatives in that area. The only reason the government is currently doing things is in reaction to record passenger growth, which has been hard to ignore.

I don't honestly know how any of the leaders genuinely feel about rail and I don't think they do either! Similar to climate change, bike lanes, NHS, etc... it's a lot of empty promises. A lot of talking, very little action. The Conservatives want to do as little as possible, but speak about how they are doing things to appease people.

TFL has been fully funded by farebox revenue for a number of years, which is very impressive. Unfortunately, as they had little government funding to fall back on during the pandemic, that unwound a lot of things. No public transport service should be "bailed out", or get within days of suspending service. But Westminster & the Treasury drag their heels as usual...
 

Recessio

Member
Joined
4 Aug 2019
Messages
675
From Sadiq Khan's manifesto:
I’ll build on the progress we’ve made in the last five years on rail devolution and I am working with the Department for Transport for the Great Northern services from Moorgate to be transferred to TfL. Where other suburban rail services haven’t performed for commuters, and where there may be benefits in TfL taking them on, I’ll explore this with the Government as it reforms the national rail network.
Could see a renewed push for further devolution of Greater London(ish) commuter services to London Overground control?
 

Doctor Fegg

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2010
Messages
1,853
Interesting times here in Oxfordshire. The Tories have lost nine seats on Oxfordshire County Council and the LibDems gained eight, bringing them to parity (with a little futzing around the edges thanks to a screwed-up declaration in a Banbury division). It's generally assumed that the LibDems will form part of the next administration and the Tories won't.

Couple of rail consequences from that.

First, the LibDems have been very vocal in supporting reopening the Oxford-Witney branch line. Obviously that's a long-term prospect but an interesting one.

Second, the former OCC administration was part of the North Cotswold Line Taskforce which put together an upgrade bid that meant a massive uplift for Hanborough station (from 1tph to 4tph!), while worsening the service for Charlbury and Kingham. OCC's representative on the NCLTF was, funnily enough, the Conservative councillor for Hanborough. He was backed by the Conservative leader, the adjoining councillor for Woodstock - who lost his seat today. The LibDems locally have campaigned against the NCLTF proposals. So it looks very plausible that OCC could withdraw its support unless the proposals are redrawn to also benefit Charlbury and Kingham.
 

Roast Veg

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2016
Messages
2,204
All new West Yorkshire mayor Tracy Brabin initially had nothing about rail in her proposals (although a few things for buses), but subsequently voiced a few schemes in interviews.

It's not impossible that a Leeds rapid transit might finally materialize.
 

NorthOxonian

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
5 Jul 2018
Messages
1,490
Location
Oxford/Newcastle
The Conservatives made some impressive gains in Northumberland - virtually all of which were along the proposed rail line to Ashington. In particular, they achieved large swings in Kitty Brewster (Bebside) and Seaton Delaval, which will probably put to rest any lingering questions about whether they'd remain in scope of the project (if the county council administration have anything to do with it, at least).
 

Carlisle

Established Member
Joined
26 Aug 2012
Messages
4,150
The big difference could come from the "Union Connectivity Review" which could decide that HS2 should be extended to Glasgow/Edinburgh as a priority, which would be presented as part of the rationale for Scotland to stay in the UK.
Alongside Larne Tunnel that’ll be a humongous construction boom
 

irish_rail

Established Member
Joined
30 Oct 2013
Messages
3,922
Location
Plymouth
I'd say the Tories may be emboldened enough now to push DOO and other nasties through without too much fear of the consequences.
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
17,882
Location
Reston City Centre
Did any candidates get elected who were promising rather "outlandish" re-openings? (Ballater etc)

Will we have to set up yet another feasibility study to tell just act a railway from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth would be a waste of money (since someone was elected with that promise)?
 

Snow1964

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2019
Messages
6,426
Location
West Wiltshire
The removal of the block grant was in exchange for London getting a greater share of business rates, which could be put towards TfL funding. Didn’t that happen?

Didn’t TfL get a 7 week extension of their Covid grant to just after elections. It expires 18th May (was £260m with upto another £225m depending on fares income)

So got a week to decide on a financial strategy for TfL going forward.
 

Purple Orange

On Moderation
Joined
26 Dec 2019
Messages
3,456
Location
The North
Bib - that is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Perhaps you'd like to tell us about all the rail improvements and investment which took place during Labour's last term of office ? (Hint, there wasn't much. And they deliberately pushed Railtrack into administration which was irresponsible). TFL, one of Labour's pet projects is a financial basket case and has the financial discipline of an incontinent puppy.

You'll need to provide evidence to support your claim of "Tory disdain" for the railways, and I'll give you a tip, before you try repeating quotes attributed to Margaret Thatcher, do your research and find sources which confirm them - somebody else on these forums didn't do that recently, and had to backtrack when asked for evidence.

I think the answer to this question will partly be answered by the Integrated Rail Plan (IPR). HS2 was a Labour government scheme that carried on in to the Tory era and managed to survive the purge of austerity. Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR) is an Osbourne brand name for the line that was pushed by the northern cities - it is fair to say that the concept of a trans pennine HS3 was not Osbourne’s, or at least his alone.

So if the government publish an IPR document that scales back HS2, significantly reduces the scope of NPR and doesn’t even pay lip service to Midlands Engine Rail (MER), then the claim that this government is not backing rail investment is a very valid one.
 

quantinghome

Established Member
Joined
1 Jun 2013
Messages
2,265
Perhaps you'd like to tell us about all the rail improvements and investment which took place during Labour's last term of office ?
1620638703631.png
"So apart from HS1 (rescued from collapse, and opened on time and budget), WCML (rescued from Railtrack bungling), Leeds station upgrade, removing commuting slam-door stock, restarting Crossrail (after being canned by the Tories), massive investment in London Underground, getting HST replacement underway, rebuilding Reading station, the London Overground, restarting large-scale electrification, and starting HS2, WHAT DID LABOUR EVER DO FOR THE RAILWAYS?"

(Hint, there wasn't much. And they deliberately pushed Railtrack into administration which was irresponsible).
Can't help but admire this bold attempt at exonerating Railtrack. What next, the Star Wars prequels?

TFL, one of Labour's pet projects is a financial basket case and has the financial discipline of an incontinent puppy.
Refer back to @edwin_m's reply.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top