Railway photography tips - beginner, but I have a reasonable camera and a rudimentary understanding

[py_megapixel]

As a Christmas present several months ago I recieved a Canon camera (of a "bridge" type, for those unfamiliar it's essentially a small DSLR style body with a built-in zoom lens). My first "proper" camera. In the past I'd been photographing trains on a smartphone for a several years, but I could never get particularly nice results due to the fact that the slow shutter speeds required by such a tiny sensor cause motion blur.

For a while I've been having fun just experimenting with the settings and using my rather rudimentary knowledge of how photography works but I'd now really like to know if you have any tips on how I could improve my railway photography. I figured out very early on that the shutter speed needs to be fast to capture crisp, clear shots of motion - but other than that, I've been "winging it" rather!.

I currently have a single photo uploaded at https://www.flickr.com/photos/186220313@N06/ and it's not brilliant I know, but I can upload some more if anybody would like to critique my work to give me some advice.

I know I'm being very vague here but I'm not sure what additional information to give you - so please feel free to ask!

 

[cactustwirly]

That shot looks a bit underexposed, so I'd recommend opening up the aperture.
Also there's a lot of tree in the shot, so I'd increase the amount of zoom.

 

[Bevan Price]

Many cameras set the exposure time or aperture according to the amount of light reaching the sensor, and in your photo, that is dominated by the patch of bright sky. If the camera permits, select the exposure time & aperture manually rather than let the camera choose settings automatically.
Try some test exposures before the train arrives -- the trees should look a lot brighter than in your photo - and use the optimum settings to photograph the train. To avoid the exposure time becoming too slow, you can adjust the aperture setting and/or increase the ISO setting.

Use a similar technique if there is a bright sun behind the train, but beware to exclude the sun from the photograph. Bright sunlight falling directly onto interiors of most cameras is a bad idea.

 

[DelW]

Depending on the type of camera, you may be able to switch the metering pattern from "average" to "spot" or at least "centre weighted", which will take the light reading from solely or mainly the central area of the image. You'll end up with an over-exposed sky, but that generally doesn't matter unless you want to see pretty cloud shapes as well.

Alternatively you may be able to point the camera at e.g. the trees, with no sky in shot, and part-depress the shutter button (not enough to fire it). Again depending on the type of camera, that often pre-sets the exposure settings and holds those while you re-frame the shot. Then hold the shutter button steady until you press it completely to take the shot. If you do this method, make sure the area you point at initially is at about the same distance away as the final subject, as it will normally fix the autofocus distance as well as the exposure settings.

The great advantage of digital is you can try lots of experiments to see what works! So much easier than years ago when experiments cost expensive film, and you didn't find out what had worked until the prints or slides came back weeks or months later.

 

[bramling]

Depending on the type of camera, you may be able to switch the metering pattern from "average" to "spot" or at least "centre weighted", which will take the light reading from solely or mainly the central area of the image. You'll end up with an over-exposed sky, but that generally doesn't matter unless you want to see pretty cloud shapes as well.

This was something I was wondering about recently. I've never really noticed much of a difference between normal and centre-weighted (obviously spot is different). Does anyone have any thoughts on which of the two is best to use?

 

[py_megapixel]

Thanks all for your helpful responses, there are some very helpful tips in here.

That shot looks a bit underexposed, so I'd recommend opening up the aperture.
Also there's a lot of tree in the shot, so I'd increase the amount of zoom.

Thanks for the feedback

Many cameras set the exposure time or aperture according to the amount of light reaching the sensor, and in your photo, that is dominated by the patch of bright sky. If the camera permits, select the exposure time & aperture manually rather than let the camera choose settings automatically.

Yes, my camera will let me set these things. I've been using shutter speed priority mode for trains and setting the shutter speed low (to avoid motion blur). However there is also a full manual mode so I'm tempted to try configuring everything manually and see if I get better results.

Taking some test shots also sounds like a good idea, so in future I'll try to get to wherever the train is passing a while before it's due; that'll hopefully allow me to properly check the exposure etc.

Depending on the type of camera, you may be able to switch the metering pattern from "average" to "spot" or at least "centre weighted", which will take the light reading from solely or mainly the central area of the image. You'll end up with an over-exposed sky, but that generally doesn't matter unless you want to see pretty cloud shapes as well.

My camera has the following options for "Light metering" which I assume is what you're talking about:

• Evaluative
• Centre-weighted average
• Spot

Which of these do I want?

Alternatively you may be able to point the camera at e.g. the trees, with no sky in shot, and part-depress the shutter button (not enough to fire it). Again depending on the type of camera, that often pre-sets the exposure settings and holds those while you re-frame the shot.

Yes my camera does this, maybe I'll try that in the future.

The great advantage of digital is you can try lots of experiments to see what works! So much easier than years ago when experiments cost expensive film, and you didn't find out what had worked until the prints or slides came back weeks or months later.

Definitely agree with that

 

[AM9]

Thanks all for your helpful responses, there are some very helpful tips in here.



Thanks for the feedback


Yes, my camera will let me set these things. I've been using shutter speed priority mode for trains and setting the shutter speed low (to avoid motion blur). However there is also a full manual mode so I'm tempted to try configuring everything manually and see if I get better results.

Taking some test shots also sounds like a good idea, so in future I'll try to get to wherever the train is passing a while before it's due; that'll hopefully allow me to properly check the exposure etc.



My camera has the following options for "Light metering" which I assume is what you're talking about:

• Evaluative
• Centre-weighted average
• Spot

Which of these do I want?


Yes my camera does this, maybe I'll try that in the future.


Definitely agree with that

When shooting something where there isn't either good lighting or the time to set each shot up with the best compromise, a good strategy is to save the image as a 'RAW' file format if the camera offers it. That preserves the image as it comes from the sensor, before the camera electronics makes an autonomous decision on what the picture should like and then throws away as much data as possible to squeeze it into a small-ish JPEG file.
The idea then is to pop it into an editor on a PC and adjust the picture to show what you wanted. The types of issue that you are having there is normally easy to fix by altering the picture 'gamma' value where the mid tones can be lifted but the highlights (e.g. the sky in that picture) already high up the brightness range, doesn't alter so stays within the range and doesn't 'burn out'. Almost any of the free editors can do this so no need to spend money just for that.

 

[DelW]

This was something I was wondering about recently. I've never really noticed much of a difference between normal and centre-weighted (obviously spot is different). Does anyone have any thoughts on which of the two is best to use?

My camera has the following options for "Light metering" which I assume is what you're talking about:

• Evaluative
• Centre-weighted average
• Spot

Which of these do I want?

Generally for DSLRs (and probably other cameras too), there are some marks visible in the viewfinder which show the areas or points it will use for metering - certainly my Nikon D3000 has them. Spot metering usually measures a small area in the middle (I think you may be able to vary its position, but I've never tried), centre weighted will take the average of a number of spots in and around the middle area of the frame. I think evaluative probably takes an average of all the metering spots, possibly disregarding any very bright or very dim ones. The camera manual or on-board help system should be able to be more definitive.

Ideally you want the metering area to be concentrated on the principal subject of the shot, and to be clear of any very bright areas (usually sky) or very dark areas (e.g. deep foliage). So comparing the viewfinder pattern with the size and area of the main subject will give an idea which will work better. Of course that's fine and dandy with landscapes, but not so easy with a fast moving train.

For the shot of the Voyager, spot metering might be affected too much by the bright yellow nose, so I'd probably try centre weighted in order to base the exposure on the area around that, but excluding the sky. No guarantee I'd be right though!

 

[py_megapixel]

When shooting something where there isn't either good lighting or the time to set each shot up with the best compromise, a good strategy is to save the image as a 'RAW' file format if the camera offers it. That preserves the image as it comes from the sensor, before the camera electronics makes an autonomous decision on what the picture should like and then throws away as much data as possible to squeeze it into a small-ish JPEG file.
The idea then is to pop it into an editor on a PC and adjust the picture to show what you wanted. The types of issue that you are having there is normally easy to fix by altering the picture 'gamma' value where the mid tones can be lifted but the highlights (e.g. the sky in that picture) already high up the brightness range, doesn't alter so stays within the range and doesn't 'burn out'. Almost any of the free editors can do this so no need to spend money just for that.

Unfortunately I don't think my camera is capable of RAW shooting - it's something I looked for but I could only find it on higher end models and "proper" DSLRs - and colour correction really isn't something I have any clue about!

However it produces JPEGs which appear to be far less compressed than my phone, so I wonder if I could have any luck trying to edit those?

If anyone could recommend some good free (preferably open source) software which would be suitable, that would be great.

 

[AM9]

Unfortunately I don't think my camera is capable of RAW shooting - it's something I looked for but I could only find it on higher end models and "proper" DSLRs - and colour correction really isn't something I have any clue about!

However it produces JPEGs which appear to be far less compressed than my phone, so I wonder if I could have any luck trying to edit those?

If anyone could recommend some good free (preferably open source) software which would be suitable, that would be great.

Yes it does work with JPEGs but if you need to push the levels too much there can be banding or coarse dithering where the compression hasn't left enough 'bits' over which the stretched grading can be expanded. JPEGs normally standardise with 8-bit colour depth (3 x 8bits on each of R,G & B which is 16.07 million colours). Most RAW files saveat 12 bits which depending on noise levels give more room for grading. Well worth trying though. Out of interest, which Canon bridge do you have?

 

[py_megapixel]

Out of interest, which Canon bridge do you have?

It's an SX540-HS.
(If that was a terrible choice, please don't shoot the messenger - as before, it was a gift; the exact choice wasn't up to me )

 

[DelW]

Looking at the manual for that camera, there seems to be a symbol in the centre of the screen looking like [ ] which indicates the spot metering area (not sure if it's always on or if you have to turn it on). For spot metering, you'd ideally want that to be located over a mid-tone area of your main subject (i.e. not especially bright or dark). Both the other modes take values from the whole area, with centre-weighted (naturally) placing more importance on the readings near the centre. I'd be tempted to use spot on stationary subjects where you can see what's within the symbol, and centre weighted for moving trains where you don't have time to assess that.

(Incidentally, it's very rare for mainstream makers to make a poor camera these days, though there were some rather dubious ones even from well known names in early digital days).

(Edit: that symbol should be wider, like [.....] - the forum software seems to take out repeated spaces)

 

[AM9]

It's an SX540-HS.
(If that was a terrible choice, please don't shoot the messenger - as before, it was a gift; the exact choice wasn't up to me )

No it is fine but it does only record in JPEG format. The important thing is to not burn the sky out if you getting the subject in poor light.
As Delw says, manufacturers (especially mainstream ones like Canon), don't sell duff hardware in cameras, but they do maintain market segmentation by limiting what the firmware lets you do.
So the trick when taking shots is to manage the exposure to keep the highlights from burning out and the darkest areas that you want to show detail from too much noise. By altering the gamma curve, (which can be done by differing amounts for each colour) with practice you can make a shot using whichever metering you choose, a lot better in post.
It may sound a bit daunting, but the ability to non-destructively alter the balance in real time can be very rewarding so please try it.
(It's even better with video).

 

[py_megapixel]

No it is fine but it does only record in JPEG format. The important thing is to not burn the sky out if you getting the subject in poor light.
As Delw says, manufacturers (especially mainstream ones like Canon), don't sell duff hardware in cameras, but they do maintain market segmentation by limiting what the firmware lets you do.
So the trick when taking shots is to manage the exposure to keep the highlights from burning out and the darkest areas that you want to show detail from too much noise. By altering the gamma curve, (which can be done by differing amounts for each colour) with practice you can make a shot using whichever metering you choose, a lot better in post.
It may sound a bit daunting, but the ability to non-destructively alter the balance in real time can be very rewarding so please try it.
(It's even better with video).

I'm very open to trying this kind of thing.

Do you know of any good online resources which I could use to learn about this sort of thing? As I said I honestly know nothing about it.

In general I'd prefer to read a website at my own pace than watch a video, but it's not a big deal either way.

 

[etr221]

For software, a quick search for 'best free photo editing software' gave me several 'review sites' listing their top 10/15/20 ... search, read, consider, try (you can at the price!), see which one you like/can get on with. GIMP is commonly regarded as the best - comparable with (Adobe) Photoshop (but free) in terms of of features and capability, but has a considerable learning curve, certainly to get the most out of it.
I have it (and the 400page book), still getting to grips...
As an alternative, the three image viewing programmes I have - Faststone ImageViewer, Irfanview, XNViewMP (all free) - all have basic editing functionality, which you may find enough.

Perhaps the first thing I would say over this whole topic is that you need to think what you are taking pictures for - only you can answer this - and hence what 'good' might mean; also how much effort you're prepared to put in. But in the end, if what you produce is good enough for you, it's good enough. To produce 'good' images - overall - I would suggest has three aspects:
1) master your camera - what all the camera settings/options do, and how they relate to 'photographic' options (aperture, shutter speed, sensitivity ('ISO' - was film speed), focus) - study the manual, and any 'learn photography' course (book, course, or online - Google can be your friend). And as has been said above, you can take lots of test/trial/practice shots. Are you prepared to rely on camera features, or do you want to be able to control everything yourself?
2) composition - getting the 'right' picture with everything in the 'right' place - look at other people's pictures, decide which ones are good/the best (according to you - and think why) and emulate.
3) 'post processing' - otherwise editing the images you have taken. Again, look for books, and on-(or off-)line 'how to' courses. Opinions vary as how much you should do - some people reckon to do very liitle gtting it (almost) right in the camera, others a lot on every picture. But it can be used to improve most images.

In thinking about editing, the first thing to say is that you can take away, but not add quality, so shoot at the highest resolution you. JPG is a lossy format - its compressed, and will loose quality every time you save an image, so again, whenever you have a choice, highest quality.

The more you put in, the more you'll get out...

Just my twopenn'orth...

 

[py_megapixel]

For software, a quick search for 'best free photo editing software' gave me several 'review sites' listing their top 10/15/20 ... search, read, consider, try (you can at the price!), see which one you like/can get on with. GIMP is commonly regarded as the best - comparable with (Adobe) Photoshop (but free) in terms of of features and capability, but has a considerable learning curve, certainly to get the most out of it.
I have it (and the 400page book), still getting to grips...

I already use GIMP for lots of things, but whenever I venture to open the colour correction settings I am completely baffled. All I can really do is fiddle with the numbers and drag the sliders around aimlessly and see what happens. I can't work out what it actually does.

thinking about editing, the first thing to say is that you can take away, but not add quality, so shoot at the highest resolution you. JPG is a lossy format - its compressed, and will loose quality every time you save an image, so again, whenever you have a choice, highest quality.

Yes. I'm already using the setting with the highest resolution and least compression. This can result in some comparatively large file sizes (sometimes 10x what my phone produces for a comparable photo) but there's considerably more detail to work with.

I will have a look at some online tutorials for colour correction in GIMP and see if I can produce some better results.
Also, I do have the option of going back to the same point at the same time as the photo I linked earlier, and using some of the tips I've been given to get a better photo of the same train... that might be interesting.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Lots of good points here so I'll add my tuppence worth...

Read up on exposure and the relationship between exposure, shutter speed, aperture and ISO if you don't know this already.

A good book I would recommend:

Langford's Basic Photography: The guide for serious photographers: Amazon.co.uk: Langford, Michael, Fox, Anna, Sawdon Smith, Richard, Fox, Anna, Sawdon Smith, Richard: 9780240520353: Books

Buy Langford's Basic Photography: The guide for serious photographers 8 by Langford, Michael, Fox, Anna, Sawdon Smith, Richard, Fox, Anna, Sawdon Smith, Richard (ISBN: 9780240520353) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

With direct in-camera JPEG capture, there is less latitude for correcting poorly exposed shots once captured; therefore, best to get it right in-camera. The beauty of digital photography is that you can shoot all you like and delete dud ones in-camera

It is very important you take note of the exposure histogram on the viewing screen at the back of the camera. It should (normally) be roughly centred. If the histogram is shifted too far to the left; the picture is underexposed. If the histogram is shifted too far to the right; the picture is overexposed. Of course, this depends on what kind of exposure you are looking for - however, for a novice, I would stick to a centred histogram, or one that is shifted slightly to the right to bring out detail in the highlights (bright colours/pixels). All of this will be explained in Langford's book.

I concur with others (and this is what I do); get to the location early; suss out the environment, weather and take some test shots to check your exposure (histogram). Generally speaking; for fast moving trains coming towards, or away from you; don't use a shutter speed lower than 1/1000sec, unless you actually want to see motion blur. The faster the shutter speed, the more light is needed to hit the sensor and thus, you will need a wider aperture and a higher ISO (film speed).

Read up on the "Sunny 16 rule" for bright sunny days. In the winter however, the sun is lower in the sky and the shadows are longer (and darker). On overcast days, you might need an ISO of at least 8000 to shoot moving trains - or even more. Don't be afraid to experiment however, the higher the ISO, the more noise is generated and the grainier the image.

Feel free to come back here with further questions

 

[AM9]

Lots of good points here so I'll add my tuppence worth...

Read up on exposure and the relationship between exposure, shutter speed, aperture and ISO if you don't know this already.

A good book I would recommend:

Langford's Basic Photography: The guide for serious photographers: Amazon.co.uk: Langford, Michael, Fox, Anna, Sawdon Smith, Richard, Fox, Anna, Sawdon Smith, Richard: 9780240520353: Books

Buy Langford's Basic Photography: The guide for serious photographers 8 by Langford, Michael, Fox, Anna, Sawdon Smith, Richard, Fox, Anna, Sawdon Smith, Richard (ISBN: 9780240520353) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

With direct in-camera JPEG capture, there is less latitude for correcting poorly exposed shots once captured; therefore, best to get it right in-camera. The beauty of digital photography is that you can shoot all you like and delete dud ones in-camera

It is very important you take note of the exposure histogram on the viewing screen at the back of the camera. It should (normally) be roughly centred. If the histogram is shifted too far to the left; the picture is underexposed. If the histogram is shifted too far to the right; the picture is overexposed. Of course, this depends on what kind of exposure you are looking for - however, for a novice, I would stick to a centred histogram, or one that is shifted slightly to the right to bring out detail in the highlights (bright colours/pixels). All of this will be explained in Langford's book.

I concur with others (and this is what I do); get to the location early; suss out the environment, weather and take some test shots to check your exposure (histogram). Generally speaking; for fast moving trains coming towards, or away from you; don't use a shutter speed lower than 1/1000sec, unless you actually want to see motion blur. The faster the shutter speed, the more light is needed to hit the sensor and thus, you will need a wider aperture and a higher ISO (film speed).

Read up on the "Sunny 16 rule" for bright sunny days. In the winter however, the sun is lower in the sky and the shadows are longer (and darker). On overcast days, you might need an ISO of at least 8000 to shoot moving trains - or even more. Don't be afraid to experiment however, the higher the ISO, the more noise is generated and the grainier the image.

Feel free to come back here with further questions

I think that the camera quoted only goes up to 3200 ISO, but that should be good enough for all but the darkest scenes. If the angle can be changed to a more head-on shot and still show what is wanted, then that will reduce the speed that the subject traverses the sensor thereby reducing blur.

 

[py_megapixel]

Thanks all for your helpful responses, and by all means keep them coming if you have anything else to add! Just a quick note - I've updated the thread title to make it sound a little less clunky - I didn't do a great job of wording it last time...

@Islineclear3_1 I'll certainly take a look at the book you mention.

I'm already familiar with aperture/shutter speed/ISO in theory, and indeed that's why I decided I wanted to make the jump from a phone to an actual camera - almost all of my train photos were coming out either motion blurred or underexposed, and I figured I needed to have more control over the shutter speed and aperture - I just need to get better at gauging the right settings when I'm actually trying to take a photo!

The other thing I will do is get into the habit of arriving early and taking test shots. This seems like it would be very worthwhile.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The other factor to consider is accurate focus. How much of the image do you want to be in focus - or how much "in-focus" is important to you? Focus is one factor that determines sharpness which can be very subjective. Most cameras can have the focus set at a predetermined point in the frame or continue to focus as the train is moving.

You will probably know the basics of depth of field: a large depth of field yields more front-to-back sharpness whilst a small, or shallow depth of field yields less front to back sharpness. You will probably want most of the train to be in acceptable focus which would mean a larger "f" number (e.g. f8 down to f16) but the cost of this is a slower shutter speed. Fine if the train is stationary. An aperture of f8 seems to be the "sweet spot" for many cameras

Always check out the environment and the light upon arrival at any particular location. Also, be ready to adjust the settings quickly should the light change suddenly as your train approaches (e.g. you've set up for a sunny shot only for a large cloud to block the sun at the moment of capture!).

 

[etr221]

Another thought: without knowing whereabouts you are, if you have a busy railway nearby, maybe spend half a day photting everything coming along (in a sense the more boring the better), playing around with settings, to see what they do and how they change your photographs. If you haven't a nearby railway, make do with something else - these are photos to be discarded! (And if you haven't already found it, look at the EXIF data on your pictures, where the camera settings used will be be recorded).

 

[bspahh]

I already use GIMP for lots of things, but whenever I venture to open the colour correction settings I am completely baffled. All I can really do is fiddle with the numbers and drag the sliders around aimlessly and see what happens. I can't work out what it actually does.

I will have a look at some online tutorials for colour correction in GIMP and see if I can produce some better results.
Also, I do have the option of going back to the same point at the same time as the photo I linked earlier, and using some of the tips I've been given to get a better photo of the same train... that might be interesting.

Glimpse https://glimpse-editor.github.io/ is an image editor which is based on GIMP, but with some changes to make it easier to use.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/13821...nu-image-manipulation-program-more-accessible says:

This free, open-source image editing software is building upon the legacy of the GNU Image Manipulation Program to make free image editing software more user-friendly and accessible. If you're unfamiliar with GNU Image Manipulation Program, it is a free alternative to Adobe Photoshop, offering much of the same core functionality.
...
Secondly, the dedicated user interface design team for GNU Image Manipulation Program hasn't met since 2012, resulting in fewer usability improvements and slower development of updates. Glimpse also includes useful third-party plug-ins pre-bundled.

 

[etr221]

Regarding Langford's Basic Photography (mentioned above by Islineclear3_1) - link given is for the 8th edition, current edition is the 10th, currently (this week) the publishers have it at 20% off - see here (but still ~£35), pp free in UK. And note the subtitle 'The Guide for Serious Photographers' - they mean it, it's by people who run Art College photography courses (and is doubtless recommended to their students). While it will tell you everything you need to know (and more), unless you put yourself in that category, I'm sure there are cheaper (and lighter) alternatives.

 

[Bevan Price]

1. If your software has that facility, I suggest that the first editing option should be to use the "Levels" control. There should a histogram, and sliders that can be adjusted until you get the best available quality from the image. "Levels" also usually gives you better control of editing than features such as "brightness", "contrast", "curves", "colour balance", etc.

2. Always keep an unedited copy of the original image. After editing, save the image with a different filename. Each edit tends to lose information from the file, so if you make a mistake, you can always go back to the "original" and try again.

3. Avoid editing features such as "sharpen" - it is all too easy to make images worse.

4. Much photo editing software contains options that you will never need - unless you like arty-farty pictures that have little resemblance to reality.

5. As with your camera, with software -- practice, practice, practice until you find techniques that are best for you.