Railways and London Mayoral Election

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thenorthern

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Given that the London Mayoral Election is only around 2 months away and that Public Transport for some reason seems to be the main subject for politics in London what have the candidates said about Rail Travel with their manifestos?
 
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higthomas

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I don't know specifically, but London Reconnections are going to be doing interviews with all the candidates devoted to transport, so they sound like a good place to go if you're prepared to pay a bit of money.
 

Hartington

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Nominations haven't closed yet (1st April?) and I guess that's when the official manifestos will be published.
 

ScotGG

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I'm sure it was said tongue in cheek but transports the main issue as the city is completely reliant on it, and when drawing up the remit of the Mayor, Whitehall crippled power in a few areas that Mayors of big cities internationally would normally have, so transport is one area they can make a big difference.

They all of course want LO to continue its roll out - first to Southeastern Metro in 2018. Almost uniform support from every party and GLA candidate.

Labour's Sadiq Khan wants a fare freeze. Many others say impossible - which is true but if some financial powers were devolved it may be possible. Would Whitehall allow that despite it doing wonders for the city? Very unlikely. And there's the rub when people say London gets this and that. Whitehall grasps power to the detriment of London like many other areas of England. Not as badly, but still enough to hold it back.
 

The Ham

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TheNewNo2

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Just remember that Sadiq Khan will steal your grandmother's jewellery! That was said by a guy called Goldsmith, so he must know!

I will personally be voting Green first choice and Labour second. I hope that whoever comes next plays less politics with the railways - I'm fed up of finding out about new Boris plans for the tube from the media. I work in asset performance for JNP, and no one bothered to consult with us before proclaiming Night Tube. It was a political whim with no consideration of facts on the ground.

I don't hold out much hope for that though.
 

thenorthern

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I reckon that Sadiq Khan will win as I think Zac Goldsmith appears too upper class and too traditional old boy Conservative for a large amount of the London electorate.

I have been looking at the changes to transport in London and I would say that most of the ones that happened under Borris such as CrossRail and the Thameslink Programme are long term projects.

On the other hand things that happened under Ken such as the replacement of the Routemaster have been short term projects.

The biggest change though to transport in London since the office of the Mayor has been established has got to be the introduction of the Oyster Card.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Sadiq Khan has made an unexpected suggestion of CrossRail3 around Bexley:

BexleyTimes said:
What Mr Khan really wants to tackle in Bexley, however, is transport, and has been vocal about introducing a four-year fare freeze on TfL services across London.

With no tube network in the borough, there has long been a suggestion that Bexley is somewhat isolated from the rest of the city, and while Mr Khan hasn’t ruled out the possibility of extending the underground to the south-east, he says there are other ways he wants to help residents in getting around the capital.

He said: “Extending tube services on the Bakerloo line is an option, and something we want to look into, but it’s important to improve on the transport that’s already available.

“If I use the tube, I can change as many times as I want until I get to my destination, but if I have to take two or three buses I get charged each time.

“So I want to introduce The Hopper, which would allow Bexley residents to hop on an unlimited number of buses for a 60 minute period, and provide excellent value for money.

“We’ve heard a lot about Crossrail, which connects the east and west, and Crossrail 2 to connect the north and south but what about a Crossrail 3 to serve suburban areas like Bexley?

“I think that would be beneficial and I have called on the chancellor to recognise this.”

With rail firm Southeastern so often in the line of criticism, Mr Khan is united with his Tory opposite number in wanting Transport for London (TfL) to take over services in the borough.

It's an interesting idea, but very speculative and very little detail, and it's not at all clear to me whether he's thinking of some kind of new NW-SE CrossRail, or something specifically geared at outer boroughs (in which case CrossRail wouldn't be the right name).
 

greatkingrat

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However if you read the Bromley Times he wants it to go to Bromley!

What Mr Khan really wants to tackle in Bromley, however, is transport, and has been vocal about introducing a four-year fare freeze on TfL services across London.

With no tube network in the borough, there has long been a suggestion that Bromley is somewhat isolated from the rest of the city, and while Mr Khan hasn’t ruled out the possibility of extending the underground to the south-east, he says there are other ways he wants to help residents in getting around the capital.

He said: “Extending tube services on the Bakerloo line is an option, and something we want to look into, but it’s important to improve on the transport that’s already available.

“If I use the tube, I can change as many times as I want until I get to my destination, but if I have to take two or three buses I get charged each time.

“So I want to introduce The Hopper, which would allow Bromley residents to hop on an unlimited number of buses for a 60 minute period, and provide excellent value for money.

“We’ve heard a lot about Crossrail, which connects the east and west, and Crossrail 2 to connect the north and south but what about a Crossrail 3 to serve suburban areas like Bromley?

“I think that would be beneficial and I have called on the chancellor to recognise this.”

With rail firm Southeastern so often in the line of criticism, Mr Khan is united with his Tory opposite number in wanting Transport for London (TfL) to take over services in the borough.

Sound familiar? No doubt by the election Crossrail 3 will be serving every borough in London!
 

Busaholic

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There are very good reasons why a (short period) time-limited universal bus ticket has not been introduced in London and, at a time when traffic congestion is increasing in all parts of London even in places where half-baked traffic schemes aren't being implemented, now is definitely not the time to experiment with this. I am afraid that so few politicians ever use a bus, except perhaps on rare occasions in central London to travel a short distance, they really have no idea of what is workable and what is not cf Mayor Johnson's 'hop-on, hop-off' New Routemaster, an ambition that got quietly abandoned after a short while and hundreds of millions of pounds later.
 

thenorthern

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There was a debate on LBC this morning but I didn't hear all of it.

The NightTube will be something that will be big whoever is mayor next I reckon.
 

MedwayValiant

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Much as the good people of Bromley will vote for the London Mayor, Bromley doesn't really think it's in London.

It definitely thinks it's in Kent, and Bromley people don't seem to have a problem with the idea of using national rail services to go into town. After all, that's what everyone else in Kent does. They may not all be delighted with Southeastern, but that is not unique to Bromley people.

What's wrong with the idea of a one hour bus ticket? (Or in practice, a tweak to the Oyster system such that a second bus with one hour costs no money.)
 

ScotGG

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Sadiq Khan has made an unexpected suggestion of CrossRail3 around Bexley:



It's an interesting idea, but very speculative and very little detail, and it's not at all clear to me whether he's thinking of some kind of new NW-SE CrossRail, or something specifically geared at outer boroughs (in which case CrossRail wouldn't be the right name).

The one hour bus hopper ticket idea is sadly bollocks for reaching areas of employment. Buses are no solution for places like Bexley. One hour on buses for much of Bexley wont even get them to the nearest tube at north Greenwich. To get to employment at Central London by bus they'd need to factor in 2 hours or more each way on buses. And traffic is ever increasing as 20k homes are planned in north Bexley and greater numbers in Greenwich, lewisham and Southwark boroughs buses would need to pass through. The road networks resilience has already fallen through the floor over the past 2 years.
 
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plcd1

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Given that the London Mayoral Election is only around 2 months away and that Public Transport for some reason seems to be the main subject for politics in London what have the candidates said about Rail Travel with their manifestos?

Very little as only Mr Khan has published his. The Green Party splurged some horrendously expensive and half baked idea about moving to a single fare zone. This would reduce fares for journeys from Zone 1 to Zones 4-6 while screwing over everyone in Zones 1-3 whose fares would rise to give some outrageous flat fare of about £3.80 to go one stop or 100 stops.

I imagine they will all say the following.

1. We love the Overground.

2. We love Crossrail.

3. We will build Crossrail 2 because we love that too.

4. We will upgrade the Tube because we love that too. :lol:

5. We want TfL (i.e me when I'm the Mayor) to take over all suburban rail services in London because that would be brill and the voters will love me.

6. We all pretend to love cycling and walking but really all whizz round in our cars and taxis (hoping no one notices).

7. What's a bus? Are they those funny red things that Boris has turned into greenhouses and saunas?

In reality none of them have a clue about transport. All the fixation is on fares and revenue and the current obsession about flogging off TfL land to build houses. They also all have to fall at the Chancellor's feet and endorse the "we only do transport schemes so houses can be built and rich people can rip off the proles" mantra that is so in vogue.

Can you tell I'm a tad jaundiced about the whole thing? :roll:
 

Busaholic

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Much as the good people of Bromley will vote for the London Mayor, Bromley doesn't really think it's in London.

It definitely thinks it's in Kent, and Bromley people don't seem to have a problem with the idea of using national rail services to go into town. After all, that's what everyone else in Kent does. They may not all be delighted with Southeastern, but that is not unique to Bromley people.

What's wrong with the idea of a one hour bus ticket? (Or in practice, a tweak to the Oyster system such that a second bus with one hour costs no money.)

It was a long time ago, but I worked for the London Borough of Bromley on two separate occasions, and I can confirm that a lot of the borough's residents did not think they should be in London, and this was reflected in the people they voted in to represent them on the council, culminating in the council taking on the GLC in the law courts over the latter's Fares Fair policy, with Lord Denning doing his usual U.S. Supreme Court type job and giving a wholly partial verdict in favour of Bromley.

When TfL are doing their level best to get everyone using Oyster, a transferrable bus ticket is the last thing they will want to introduce and, on this occasion, I would wholly agree with them. As you say, a tweak to the Oyster system might be possible, but the tweak I'd make is to lower the (already quite low) cap on bus travel only in a 24 hour period.
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The one hour bus hopper ticket idea is sadly bollocks for reaching areas of employment. Buses are no solution for places like Bexley. One hour on buses for much of Bexley wont even get them to the nearest tube at north Greenwich. To get to employment at Central London by bus they'd need to factor in 2 hours or more each way on buses. And traffic is ever increasing as 20k homes are planned in north Bexley and greater numbers in Greenwich, lewisham and Southwark boroughs buses would need to pass through. The road networks resilience has already fallen through the floor over the past 2 years.

The areas which most rely on bus transport (and by TfL's own figures 9 of the 10 most complained-about bus services are in SE London) will, as you say, benefit the least from a one-hour ticket. It would also be the exact opposite of a Delay Repay too, because if you normally manage two journeys in the hour and your second one gets delayed for any reason you would have to pay again! This will create loads of aggro with drivers, who of course will be powerless to do anything about the situation. It has not been thought through, but then Christian Wolmar whose 'original' idea it was has no track record of knowing anything about bus services.
 

TheNewNo2

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The American government has been described in the past as "an insurance company with an army". The LBC is a transport company with a police force...
 

al green

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......

In reality none of them have a clue about transport. "....

What nonsense. Sian Berry - whom I know - worked for the Campaign for Better Transport for many years. To say that she knows nothing about transport is obviously rubbish. You may not agree with her but at least accept that she does have experience as a transport campaigner.
 

Mikey C

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Given that the London Mayoral Election is only around 2 months away and that Public Transport for some reason seems to be the main subject for politics in London what have the candidates said about Rail Travel with their manifestos?

I'm not sure transport is that big an electoral issue in London, as there's a general consensus on most issues, especially on rail. Things like Crossrail, the Overground Network, Crossrail 2 seem to be progressing irrespective on which Mayor is in charge. The proposal for TfL to take control of London commuter trains could have been announced by any party.

The Borismaster was one of the few things where a Mayor could make a difference, and whatever its merits, this was a democratically backed idea.
 

Bald Rick

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What nonsense. Sian Berry - whom I know - worked for the Campaign for Better Transport for many years. To say that she knows nothing about transport is obviously rubbish. You may not agree with her but at least accept that she does have experience as a transport campaigner.

Agreed - I've met two of the candidates from the major parties and they both seemed well up on transport matters.
 

plcd1

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What nonsense. Sian Berry - whom I know - worked for the Campaign for Better Transport for many years. To say that she knows nothing about transport is obviously rubbish. You may not agree with her but at least accept that she does have experience as a transport campaigner.

Err I can only go on what is said publicly and I am underwhelmed by what all of them say. If Ms Berry is, as you say, a former transport campaigner then it doesn't show through in those policies that have emerged so far. It certainly didn't shine through in the single fare zone idea which completely ignored the likely knock on consequences of such a policy. I'd have expected at least an acknowledgement of such and a pointer as to what might be done. Further it was not evident when I have had twitter exchanges with her about pedestrianing Oxford St and the knock on consequences. Note I am not disagreeing with your statement about her experience. I was not aware she had done that work. Surely she needs to say more about it to raise her profile a bit and help voters understand her capabilities?

I will accept Caroline Pidgeon knows about London transport but her policies thus far are not inspiring. I would have expected something a bit more rounded and developed.
 

thenorthern

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Who are the LBC?

The main commercial talk radio station for London which stands for London Broadcasting Company although its nationwide now on DAB and uses the tagline Leading Britain's Conversation.
 
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Clip

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The main commercial talk radio station for London which stands for London Broadcasting Company although its nationwide now on DAB and uses the tagline Leading Britain's Conversation.

indeed but thats not what alluded to in the post quoted, unless nick ferrari has his own police force now?
 

DynamicSpirit

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However if you read the Bromley Times he wants it to go to Bromley!

Sound familiar? No doubt by the election Crossrail 3 will be serving every borough in London!

lol, I have to admit that does rather make this CR3 plan for Bexley or Bromley look more like a vague half-baked idea he's brought out for the purpose of the election :(

There are very good reasons why a (short period) time-limited universal bus ticket has not been introduced in London and, at a time when traffic congestion is increasing in all parts of London even in places where half-baked traffic schemes aren't being implemented, now is definitely not the time to experiment with this. I am afraid that so few politicians ever use a bus, except perhaps on rare occasions in central London to travel a short distance, they really have no idea of what is workable and what is not cf Mayor Johnson's 'hop-on, hop-off' New Routemaster, an ambition that got quietly abandoned after a short while and hundreds of millions of pounds later.

What reasons? Why would the 1-hour bus ticket not be workable? Presumably all it requires is a software change to the algorithm that calculates the fare to charge on an Oyster?

I think it's a brilliant idea. It's currently crazy that if you need to change buses on a journey, you have to pay twice, even if the combined journey is relatively short. My partner's commute involves two bus journeys of around 20 mins each (rising to 30-40 mins if traffic is really bad). That's exactly the kind of journey for which the 1 hour bus pass is so suited (although since she gets a monthly bus pass anyway, I doubt she'll benefit personally). Consider too the relatively huge costs today of making short journeys that require a change of bus must surely be pushing at least a few people into driving instead. Getting those cars off the road will slightly improve reliability of bus journeys.

I get the point that if traffic pushes your first bus journey longer than an hour, then you'll pay more, but if your first bus journey is that long in the first place, then you're probably not in the key target market that this ticket would be aimed at. Besides, paying more if you get delayed is something that can already happen at certain times of day: If a delay to the bus journey means you start a subsequent train journey in the rush hour - so it's not exactly an unknown situation.

The only problem I perceive is that Sadiq hasn't made the next logical step - of questioning why you have to pay twice if your Oyster PAYG journey involves bus + train. Fixing that anomaly would also not be hard to do, and I suspect would have a much bigger impact (as well as getting significantly more cars off the road).

The one hour bus hopper ticket idea is sadly bollocks for reaching areas of employment. Buses are no solution for places like Bexley. One hour on buses for much of Bexley wont even get them to the nearest tube at north Greenwich.

But in most parts of Bexley , one hour on the buses will easily get you to one of the many national rail stations in the borough, from which you can get to central London. And don't forget too that in 3 years time, CrossRail will be running from Abbey Wood. I understand TfL are looking at reworking bus routes in the area because of the expected consequent vast demand for bus travel to Abbey Wood. So you probably will find that in 2019, 1 hour will be more than adequate to get you from most places in Bexley to CrossRail by bus. (Having said that, people heading for a rail station are probably not going to be the main beneficiaries of the 1-hour bus fare).
 

MedwayValiant

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It's currently crazy that if you need to change buses on a journey, you have to pay twice, even if the combined journey is relatively short. My partner's commute involves two bus journeys of around 20 mins each (rising to 30-40 mins if traffic is really bad).

That's certainly the sort of journey I was thinking of when I suggested that the Oyster system could be tweaked such that a second bus journey within one hour would cost no more money.

What's more, if such a system existed then there would be no further need for bus drivers to hand out vouchers - you know, the vouchers whose very existence a driver will occasionally deny - if they turn round short and you need to take two buses to complete your journey on one route.
 

Busaholic

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That's certainly the sort of journey I was thinking of when I suggested that the Oyster system could be tweaked such that a second bus journey within one hour would cost no more money.

What's more, if such a system existed then there would be no further need for bus drivers to hand out vouchers - you know, the vouchers whose very existence a driver will occasionally deny - if they turn round short and you need to take two buses to complete your journey on one route.

Sadiq Khan was not proposing 'tweaking' Oyster, though, he was proposing a new ticket called 'Hopper'- he obviously does not remember all those bread van conversions going round under that moniker (or Hoppa) giving bus travel a bad name after deregulation. Maybe the solution is to make all bus travel on Oyster free for the rest of the day after two journeys have been made, so the person using two buses to travel to work and two back gets the same effect without clockwatching?
 

Mikey C

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1 one hour validity on Oyster makes a lot of sense to me, it's irritating when the same journey costs different amounts depending on whether a direct bus is taken or more than one, especially when sometimes the direct bus is actually slower
 
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