Railways to use white diesel?

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Elecman

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It virtually permanently stains the fuel filters so is detectable that way. During the last fuel drivers strike the railway company I worked for was given dispensation to use Red Diesel from the depot tanks for liveried company vehicles provided the exact quantity used was recorded and the duty duly paid. AFAIK the vehicle registration numbers were recorded and DVLA advised and had to carry a copy of the exemption letter permanently thereafter
 
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alangla

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I know there is a big push to get lorries and ships to switch to LNG as a fuel but this is not particularly popular as it is an inferior fuel to diesel for big engines and it might be that the government feels the need to get railway freight operators to move in this direction
Just don’t mention the MV Glen Sannox debacle... That ferry and its un-named sister ship are currently costing every person in Scotland about £35-40 each
 

Tony43

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just for information I work as a fuel tanker driver there is no difference between red and white diesel, in the terminal the dye is in a separate tank and is injected into the diesel via the loading arms in the same way as additive is injected for forecourts.
 

Edders23

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just for information I work as a fuel tanker driver there is no difference between red and white diesel, in the terminal the dye is in a separate tank and is injected into the diesel via the loading arms in the same way as additive is injected for forecourts.

I mentioned that further up the thread I don't think they are taking much notice
 

Maltazer

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What happens in other countries? Do their farmers get cheaper fuel, or is this just a typically British muddle?
 

DelW

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Never mind all the nonsense with batteries, trains have big areas under the floor for lots of CNG storage space and I'm surprised gas powered trains aren't being developed. For freight you can easily imagine an LNG or CNG waggon couple to the loco with a gas line plumbed in.
A US company called CNGMotive has developed just such a CNG tender, based on a standard freight wagon with a body containing 28 gas cylinders, a pressure reduction system, and a control unit. It's due to be tested this spring on Norfolk Southern, coupled between a pair of gas-converted SD70ACe locos borrowed from BNSF, which had previously been used for LNG tests. (From a piece in "Trains" magazine January issue).
GE and EMD have developed LNG locos in the US but the gas oil price is always to low for it to make senses 95% of the time.
The same article states that Florida East Coast is the only current US main line user of natural gas.
 

yorksrob

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It depends what gas. Bearing in mind we're going to be phasing out natural gas (methane) from domestic heating in the next couple of decades, I can't see us adopting it for transport.
 

TheSeeker

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What happens in other countries? Do their farmers get cheaper fuel, or is this just a typically British muddle?
My father in law buys tax free diesel for his tractor in Portugal. He has an official card and a little book where the amounts are noted. He buys a 55 gallon / 208L drum full each time and then pumps it by hand to fill up when required. You used to be able to get away with a lot of things in Portugal but since the IMF bailout they're cracking down on everything.
 

Goofle

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It "stains" for a very long time. Far longer than that.
I looked at buying a Land Rover recently which had legitimately been run on red diesel due to it not being used on the road but purely on private farmland. Were I to buy it, MOT, tax and insure it but immediately start using white fuel would I be in danger of problems? As mentioned upthread we get dipped often here in diesel vehicles (Powys). Would a carefully maintained log of fuel bought and miles driven (backed up by receipts) be a valid defence when I inevitably get dipped?
 

furnessvale

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I looked at buying a Land Rover recently which had legitimately been run on red diesel due to it not being used on the road but purely on private farmland. Were I to buy it, MOT, tax and insure it but immediately start using white fuel would I be in danger of problems? As mentioned upthread we get dipped often here in diesel vehicles (Powys). Would a carefully maintained log of fuel bought and miles driven (backed up by receipts) be a valid defence when I inevitably get dipped?
I would look at the history of this vehicle first.

It is not legal to run a road going vehicle on red even off road UNLESS the vehicle has effectively been permanently taken off road. It is a grey area to bring one back onto the road and if I were you I would do a bit of research.
 

Goofle

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I would look at the history of this vehicle first.

It is not legal to run a road going vehicle on red even off road UNLESS the vehicle has effectively been permanently taken off road. It is a grey area to bring one back onto the road and if I were you I would do a bit of research.
As I understood it it was under the exemption for agriculture - exempt MOT, used within so many kms of the land and traveling between farms / fields. It was also exempt VED. I think the V5 classified it as such, so technically it wasn't (primarily?) a road vehicle. It doesn't matter anyhow massively, it was just a (seemingly bad!) idea I looked at briefly.
I'm fearing I may be derailing the thread here however....
 

theageofthetra

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A US company called CNGMotive has developed just such a CNG tender, based on a standard freight wagon with a body containing 28 gas cylinders, a pressure reduction system, and a control unit. It's due to be tested this spring on Norfolk Southern, coupled between a pair of gas-converted SD70ACe locos borrowed from BNSF, which had previously been used for LNG tests. (From a piece in "Trains" magazine January issue).

The same article states that Florida East Coast is the only current US main line user of natural gas.
Could such a locomotive be used in Manhattan - where I understand all diesel locomotives are banned (not sure about maintenance vehicles)
 

hwl

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A US company called CNGMotive has developed just such a CNG tender, based on a standard freight wagon with a body containing 28 gas cylinders, a pressure reduction system, and a control unit. It's due to be tested this spring on Norfolk Southern, coupled between a pair of gas-converted SD70ACe locos borrowed from BNSF, which had previously been used for LNG tests. (From a piece in "Trains" magazine January issue).

The same article states that Florida East Coast is the only current US main line user of natural gas.
FEC have an LNG import terminal next to one of their yards hence lower cost for refuel infrastructure and no storage or transport costs as it comes through a pipe in the fence!
Most US LNG import is Atlantic or eastern Gulf coast.

UP or BNSF would be looking to liquify from local production sources within their western home regions hence CNG becomes interesting for costs if you have gas production away from pipelines.
 

DelW

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Could such a locomotive be used in Manhattan - where I understand all diesel locomotives are banned (not sure about maintenance vehicles)
I think that the diesel ban applies only to the Hudson, East River, and Park Avenue tunnels, which are owned by Amtrak and also have such intensive passenger usage that freight services couldn't be accommodated anyway. Elsewhere in New York city diesels are allowed, or at least were when I went spotting at Sunnyside Yard in 2006 - I have photos of Amtrak P42s and an Amtrak diesel switcher there. (Sunnyside is in Queens not Manhattan though).
All the above open to correction if anyone knows better.
 

Mojo

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The Chancellor has just announced in the budget that "red diesel" will be kept for agriculture and rail.
 
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