Rainham (Kent) to Amersham return journey options and fares

[extendedpaul]

I need to make this journey Friday afternoon returning late evening. Theatre visit.

NRE will only give me an itinerary and fare (£20.05 with railcard) via Marylebone and Chiltern Railways but that route does not work for the return journey. The 22.09 departure from Amersham is too early and the 23.09 all stops departure may leave me stranded in London overnight. However I can catch a Metropolitan line tube train at 22.47 arriving Kings Cross St Pancras at 23.43 which will hopefully allow me to travel from St Pancras Intl on the 23.55 departure or else the 00.10 from Victoria.

Is the £20.05 fare valid to travel on the Metropolitan Line between Kings Cross St Pancras and Amersham or is there a different fare for that routing ? Or could I buy a One Day Travelcard to include travel to Amersham (which is in zone 9 on the London Underground station map) ?

Incidentally does anyone know why NRE does not seem to recognise that Amersham has an underground station? Using Kings Cross as a starting point the journey planner suggests underground to Marylebone and then train rather than direct by tube.

 

[MikeWh]

Usually a cross London tube has to be in the middle of a three leg journey. However, interavailable ticketing applies between Baker Street/Marylebone and Amersham so you will be fine.

 

[yorkie]

I need to make this journey Friday afternoon returning late evening. Theatre visit.

NRE will only give me an itinerary and fare (£20.05 with railcard) via Marylebone and Chiltern Railways but that route does not work for the return journey. The 22.09 departure from Amersham is too early and the 23.09 all stops departure may leave me stranded in London overnight. However I can catch a Metropolitan line tube train at 22.47 arriving Kings Cross St Pancras at 23.43 which will hopefully allow me to travel from St Pancras Intl on the 23.55 departure or else the 00.10 from Victoria.

Is the £20.05 fare valid to travel on the Metropolitan Line between Kings Cross St Pancras and Amersham

Yes the ticket is valid but it's not a valid itinerary onto the last trains from London to Rainham, so if your train is delayed you aren't covered and would have to make your own arrangements.

Or could I buy a One Day Travelcard to include travel to Amersham (which is in zone 9 on the London Underground station map) ?

No; a Rainham Travelcard is cheaper but only covers you as far as Moor Park, as Travelcards from Rainham only include Zones 1-6.

Incidentally does anyone know why NRE does not seem to recognise that Amersham has an underground station?

Amersham is a London Underground station.

Using Kings Cross as a starting point the journey planner suggests underground to Marylebone and then train rather than direct by tube.

LU Metropolitan Line services are not in the NR timetable data feed.

 

[JBuchananGB]

The TFL journey planner shows your planned itinerary on the 2247 from Amersham then the 2355 from St. Pancras, so it should be achievable.

 

[extendedpaul]

The TFL journey planner shows your planned itinerary on the 2247 from Amersham then the 2355 from St. Pancras, so it should be achievable.

Thanks Yorkie for all information and for the above. I will take my chances with the connection on to the 23.55 train from St Pancras. I've missed it once or twice in the past and caught the 00.12 to Ebbsfleeet from where my wife picked me up.

A couple of follow up questions. Is there a one day travelcard that does allow travel on the whole of the Metropolitan line, ie to Amersham, Chesham and Watford ? Presumably if there is I would need to travel to a zone 6 station like Crayford to buy it, does it cost much more than a standard zones 1-6 travelcard ?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks Yorkie for all information and for the above. I will take my chances with the connection on to the 23.55 train from St Pancras. I've missed it once or twice in the past and caught the 00.12 to Ebbsfleeet from where my wife picked me up.

A couple of follow up questions. Is there a one day travelcard that does allow travel on the whole of the Metropolitan line, ie to Amersham, Chesham and Watford ? Presumably if there is I would need to travel to a zone 6 station like Crayford to buy it, does it cost much more than a standard zones 1-6 travelcard ?

To buy a Zones 1-9 Travelcard in the National Rail paper ticket system, you'll need to buy the ticket with a notional origin of a station within the London Zones, but beyond Zone 6 - for example, Watford High Street.

It costs 80p more than a normal Zones 1-6 Off-Peak Day Travelcard.

 

[jumble]

To buy a Zones 1-9 Travelcard in the National Rail paper ticket system, you'll need to buy the ticket with a notional origin of a station within the London Zones, but beyond Zone 6 - for example, Watford High Street.

It costs 80p more than a normal Zones 1-6 Off-Peak Day Travelcard.

Have you had a look at the single fare finder on TFL for oyster contactless as it looks like the fare is £7.00 each way contactless or do you need a travelcard for other journeys?
Does you railcard allow oyster discount ?
Jumble

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Have you had a look at the single fare finder on TFL for oyster contactless as it looks like the fare is £7.00 each way contactless or do you need a travelcard for other journeys?
Does you railcard allow oyster discount ?
Jumble

It's £7.00 each way contactless, but I was referring to the difference between an Off-Peak Day Travelcard for Zones 1-6, and Zones 1-9 (or, technically, Zones 1-6 "AAA Zones 7-9").

You can set a Railcard discount for most types of Railcard on an Oyster card. With the exception of the Disabled Railcard, this then gives a discount on Off-Peak fares and caps

 

[jumble]

It's £7.00 each way contactless, but I was referring to the difference between an Off-Peak Day Travelcard for Zones 1-6, and Zones 1-9 (or, technically, Zones 1-6 "AAA Zones 7-9").

You can set a Railcard discount for most types of Railcard on an Oyster card. With the exception of the Disabled Railcard, this then gives a discount on Off-Peak fares and caps

Sorry meant to quote the OP and not you

Hence me asking if he needed a railcard elsewhere

Actually he pays £4.10 on the return as it is off peak and may well pay that outbound depending on leaving Rainham but TFL Fares will not allow Southeastern high speed services

If the OP uses Oyster and does not do other journeys then he can get travel for about half the cost of buying from National Rail
He could if really wanting to moneysave pay £4.70 or £2.90 each way by Avoiding Zone 1 via West Hampstead (or Finchley Road/Finchley Road & Frognal) and Stratford (or Gospel Oak and Barking)

 

[extendedpaul]

Today I'm going to just buy the off peak day return to Amersham and use Chiltern from Marylebone. and the underground back to Kings Cross St Pancras tonight. Leaving in a few minutes.

I go to the theatre in London regularly and sometimes buy a zones 1-6 travelcard to spend the afternoon and early evening travelling around the outer reaches of the London area before heading to the West End. I will on a future trip start with a day return to Crayford and then buy a zones 1-9 travelcard as suggested by ForTheLoveOf. Visiting exciting destinations like Rickmansworth, Watford and Chesham !

Thanks to everyone who has responded.

 

[Surreytraveller]

You may also find it easier and quicker to change at Farringdon rather than King's Cross / St Pancras. The Metropolitan Line platforms are a lot closer to the Thameslink platforms there, being a quick footbridge change rather than trying to find your way down a load of subterranean tunnels...

 

[JBuchananGB]

It's £7.00 each way contactless, but I was referring to the difference between an Off-Peak Day Travelcard for Zones 1-6, and Zones 1-9 (or, technically, Zones 1-6 "AAA Zones 7-9").

You can set a Railcard discount for most types of Railcard on an Oyster card. With the exception of the Disabled Railcard, this then gives a discount on Off-Peak fares and caps

I think you'll find that may be the Oyster fare from Rainham (London), whereas the OP is travelling from Rainham (Kent), which is outside all Oyster zones.

 

[JBuchananGB]

You may also find it easier and quicker to change at Farringdon rather than King's Cross / St Pancras. The Metropolitan Line platforms are a lot closer to the Thameslink platforms there, being a quick footbridge change rather than trying to find your way down a load of subterranean tunnels...

Not exactly going to help to catch the Javelin from St.Pancras, as is the OP's intention.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Not exactly going to help to catch the Javelin from St.Pancras, as is the OP's intention.

Sorry. Had it in my head they were catching the Thameslink to Rainham

 

[A Challenge]

I go to the theatre in London regularly and sometimes buy a zones 1-6 travelcard to spend the afternoon and early evening travelling around the outer reaches of the London area before heading to the West End. I will on a future trip start with a day return to Crayford and then buy a zones 1-9 travelcard as suggested by ForTheLoveOf. Visiting exciting destinations like Rickmansworth, Watford and Chesham !

Isn't Dartford in Zone 8, and therefore you can use it on a Z1-9 travelcard (though according to brfares you can only get Z1-6 travelcards from Dartford)

 

[extendedpaul]

Isn't Dartford in Zone 8, and therefore you can use it on a Z1-9 travelcard (though according to brfares you can only get Z1-6 travelcards from Dartford)

I'm not sure. I've bought travelcards from Dartford and I think they just have zones 1-6 availability, I'll ask next time I'm there.

No problems with journey to Amersham and all connections worked as planned. Thanks again for all replies.

 

[MikeWh]

Isn't Dartford in Zone 8, and therefore you can use it on a Z1-9 travelcard (though according to brfares you can only get Z1-6 travelcards from Dartford)

Dartford to zones 1-6 is cheaper than zones 1-8/9 so the product does still make sense. If you need zones 7-9 elsewhere then you can always ask for a Chesham travelcard which will be valid at Dartford.

 

[A Challenge]

I take it a Dartford to Z1-6 travelcard is treated as a outboundary travelcard, meaning it is only valid for a return journey from Dartford on the day travelcard?

 

[MikeWh]

I take it a Dartford to Z1-6 travelcard is treated as a outboundary travelcard, meaning it is only valid for a return journey from Dartford on the day travelcard?

Yes, but that's all that will be required for 99% of the people who buy one.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Yes, but that's all that will be required for 99% of the people who buy one.

Was the reason Dartford was put in the Travelcard area for the benefit of Freedom Pass holders ? I seem to remember that was an argument at the time

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I take it a Dartford to Z1-6 travelcard is treated as a outboundary travelcard, meaning it is only valid for a return journey from Dartford on the day travelcard?

Exactly, if you want a Travelcard that covers Zones 7-9 then you will need to buy one that covers exactly that, e.g. a Chesham to London Zones 1-6 Travelcard, for which the only available route is "AAA Zones 7-9".

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Was the reason Dartford was put in the Travelcard area for the benefit of Freedom Pass holders ? I seem to remember that was an argument at the time

Surely the argument is more along the lines of it making it easier (and potentially a little bit cheaper) for people to travel around the area, hence encouraging some people to travel more?

 

[Surreytraveller]

I think the argument for Dartford in particular, was the fact three routes converge there, each of those routes being within the zones and Dartford outside. I recall the concerns at the time were people trying to travel between those three routes being unable to travel via Dartford

 

[A Challenge]

Note that you don't pay via Z8 fares for changing at Dartford.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Note that you don't pay via Z8 fares for changing at Dartford.

So in a way, people travelling via Dartford pay less than people travelling to or from Dartford!