Ran through a level crossing and it is my fault. What now?

[throwaway1211]

Hi all,

first of all I would like to make it clear that I am 100% disappointed in myself for doing what I have done but at the time, I did not fully grasp the dangers of my actions. This morning I ran through a level crossing as it was flashing amber and I am sure it started flashing red once I was crossing it. Even more stupidly, I was driving a marked company vehicle.

I have a few questions:

1. Will NR investigate and report this to my Company/authorities?

2. If so, what are the usual timescales?

Many thanks to all.

 

[deltic08]

Hi all,

first of all I would like to make it clear that I am 100% disappointed in myself for doing what I have done but at the time, I did not fully grasp the dangers of my actions. This morning I ran through a level crossing as it was flashing amber and I am sure it started flashing red once I was crossing it. Even more stupidly, I was driving a marked company vehicle.

I have a few questions:

1. Will NR investigate and report this to my Company/authorities?

2. If so, what are the usual timescales?

Many thanks to all.

If it was a barrier crossing you have probably got away with it as the barrier hadn't lowered yet.

 

[Carntyne]

It will be the police who investigate rather than NR if you have been caught. Dangerous and/or reckless driving, unless there's a specific level crossing charge?

 

[Scottychoo]

Nothing to worry about, Network Rail will contact the Police, show them the camera footage, they will contact your employer.

 

[throwaway1211]

It will be the police who investigate rather than NR if you have been caught. Dangerous and/or reckless driving, unless there's a specific level crossing charge?

There was no camera or anyone else, this was at very early hours in the morning. There is however a CCTV camera.

 

[Darandio]

Don't take it personally. Many people here are staff and will have seen crossing misuse first hand, some may even have hit something fouling the crossing in more extreme cases than yours. Understandably they take a dim view of anyone doing it.

I cannot really recall a previous instance on here where anyone has asked similar advice. It's not like a potential ticketing issue for example where you would be told to sit tight and wait for the letter to arrive. In this case as it was the early hours it may not even be picked up but there is also a chance it will.

 

[throwaway1211]

Don't take it personally. Many people here are staff and will have seen crossing misuse first hand, some may even have hit something fouling the crossing in more extreme cases than yours. Understandably they take a dim view of anyone doing it.

I cannot really recall a previous instance on here where anyone has asked similar advice. It's not like a potential ticketing issue for example where you would be told to sit tight and wait for the letter to arrive. In this case as it was the early hours it may not even be picked up but there is also a chance it will.

I totally understand. I am 100% at fault for this and as you've said, a lot of people here work in the industry and have probably seen incidents due to reckless behaviour. If it is picked up by the signaller, what can he do?

 

[Darandio]

I totally understand. I am 100% at fault for this and as you've said, a lot of people here work in the industry and have probably seen incidents due to reckless behaviour. If it is picked up by the signaller, what can he do?

My gut feeling would be that if they have seen it, it's something they see all too often and would possibly brush it off as it seems you were through before the barriers were lowered. There would be action for incidents once the barriers are down, situations such as drivers swerving around half barriers or even taking out the barrier itself.

But in reality, i'm not sure anyone can say for sure what will happen. I'm not 100% sure whether overnight footage will be inspected at a later time, maybe someone else with more knowledge on this can confirm.

 

[aleggatta]

I would be upfront to your employer about the situation, typically you will only get caught by a marked van patrolling the crossing or a (normally obviously) marked camera looking that would catch you and the red flashing lights in one photo. Are you sure the camera was sited to catch people jumping the crossing lights or was it just a general observation camera?

 

[ajb690]

Purely on a procedural level, if the CCTV caught you, your employer will get a notice of intended prosecution from the BTP, and then name you as the driver. I believe this has to happen in the next 14 days, otherwise you'll be ok. If/when you get a notice, I'd suggest posting on a forum such as www.Pepipoo.com as this is prosecuted as a road traffic offence and they can advise on the process and whether you'll get a course or points on your license.

 

[TheEdge]

I think the very worse that would happen would be that if the camera in question was a crossing camera and you'll be issued a traffic fine. Even when the police are doing stings on crossings that's normally what happens.

What your company will do if their vehicle manager receives an notice of prosecution for one of their vehicles is something only you'll know.

 

[throwaway1211]

I would be upfront to your employer about the situation, typically you will only get caught by a marked van patrolling the crossing or a (normally obviously) marked camera looking that would catch you and the red flashing lights in one photo. Are you sure the camera was sited to catch people jumping the crossing lights or was it just a general observation camera?

The camera looked like your standard surveillance CCTV.

Purely on a procedural level, if the CCTV caught you, your employer will get a notice of intended prosecution from the BTP, and then name you as the driver. I believe this has to happen in the next 14 days, otherwise you'll be ok. If/when you get a notice, I'd suggest posting on a forum such as www.Pepipoo.com as this is prosecuted as a road traffic offence and they can advise on the process and whether you'll get a course or points on your license.

Does that happen even if the camera was purely a surveillance one and not for traffic offences?

I think the very worse that would happen would be that if the camera in question was a crossing camera and you'll be issued a traffic fine. Even when the police are doing stings on crossings that's normally what happens.

What your company will do if their vehicle manager receives an notice of prosecution for one of their vehicles is something only you'll know.

£60 and 3 points or the course, correct?

Well I am seriously debating calling my fleet department and giving them a heads up but I am not sure if it would be wise.

 

[Llanigraham]

I totally understand. I am 100% at fault for this and as you've said, a lot of people here work in the industry and have probably seen incidents due to reckless behaviour. If it is picked up by the signaller, what can he do?

Presuming that he saw enough he fills in a statement form with all the details, and probably ensures that the relevant CCTV section is "protected" and sends that the Crossing Misuse people at his Control. They then decide whether it goes to the BTP prosecution people or not. It is NOT dealt with by the Civil Police as suggested earlier, and is NOT a "due care and attention charge" but a specific charge of ignoring the red lights. As I understand it this charge does NOT allow the attendance at a Course.

I completed numerous reports in my time, since I actually overlooked the crossing I controlled and most that were actioned were given the choice of a Fixed Penalty Notice or they could choose to go to Court. In 10 years I only had that once and they decided to settle on the morning of the Hearing. (Still got a day's paid overtime for it!)

By the sound of it this was a full barriered crossing where the Signaller will have been watching the CCTV to ensure that the crossing was clear before lowering the barriers. Evidence from those cameras is monitored at all times the crossing is being activated and they have been used as evidence for prosecution numerous times.

I suggest you speak to your Transport Manager as soon as possible. Honesty is the best policy!

 

[ajb690]

Does that happen even if the camera was purely a surveillance one and not for traffic offences

I don't think anyone can say. Honestly, you'll just have to wait 2 weeks.

 

[Tomnick]

I'm pretty sure that it's already a lesson well learnt and that you know it's a silly thing to do, so I won't labour that point. Beyond giving yourself a good kicking, I wouldn't worry. Unless there was an (automatic?) enforcement camera in addition to the CCTV cameras mounted high up, you probably won't hear anything. Far too many people push their luck, many crossing with the red lights already flashing. I only bothered to report the ones who really pushed it, either just before or whilst the barriers were lowering, and that was enough to keep me (and the Police) busy enough...

 

[Snow1964]

I don't think anyone will be penalised for going through on flashing amber
The amber is a sequence start, not expected to slam on brakes and skid to a halt, potentially more dangerous than continuing.

Did you see a first red flash on the approach lights, or a repeater at the end of the crossing (usually on right at back of lights coming other way), if already crossing have nothing to worry about. If you let it flash red a few times (even if barriers hadn't started to come down) and still crossed, you could be in trouble.

 

[boing_uk]

Considering that the starting amber is 5 seconds long, wtaf were you doing to not see/ignore that?

 

[throwaway1211]

I'm pretty sure that it's already a lesson well learnt and that you know it's a silly thing to do, so I won't labour that point. Beyond giving yourself a good kicking, I wouldn't worry. Unless there was an (automatic?) enforcement camera in addition to the CCTV cameras mounted high up, you probably won't hear anything. Far too many people push their luck, many crossing with the red lights already flashing. I only bothered to report the ones who really pushed it, either just before or whilst the barriers were lowering, and that was enough to keep me (and the Police) busy enough...

I just looked at some videos on how the signalling works and you have about 5s of amber then it starts flashing red. From my fuzzy memory I may have passed it as it turned to red unfortunately. I don’t know why I didn’t stop, maybe I thought I had enough time or something.

I don't think anyone will be penalised for going through on flashing amber
The amber is a sequence start, not expected to slam on brakes and skid to a halt, potentially more dangerous than continuing.

Did you see a first red flash on the approach lights, or a repeater at the end of the crossing (usually on right at back of lights coming other way), if already crossing have nothing to worry about. If you let it flash red a few times (even if barriers hadn't started to come down) and still crossed, you could be in trouble.

It may have flashed red twice as I came to it. I saw the amber for a few seconds admittedly.

Considering that the starting amber is 5 seconds long, wtaf were you doing to not see/ignore that?

I clearly wasn’t thinking straight, I should’ve stopped.

 

[pompeyfan]

As others have said, unless there is a specific Gatso style enforcement camera or a road safety van on site, you’ll be unlikely to hear anything. Depends how much you upset the signaller first then to contact the BTP and try and trawl through the footage.

 

[throwaway1211]

As others have said, unless there is a specific Gatso style enforcement camera or a road safety van on site, you’ll be unlikely to hear anything. Depends how much you upset the signaller first then to contact the BTP and try and trawl through the footage.

Thank you! I will also speak with my fleet department and just give them a heads up about it, I am sure they will appreciate my honesty. Never again.

 

[Llanigraham]

As others have said, unless there is a specific Gatso style enforcement camera or a road safety van on site, you’ll be unlikely to hear anything. Depends how much you upset the signaller first then to contact the BTP and try and trawl through the footage.

Incorrect.
Prosecutions have occurred using the standard CCTV "Crossing view" cameras and even just on the signed statement of the signaller.

 

[pompeyfan]

Incorrect.
Prosecutions have occurred using the standard CCTV "Crossing view" cameras and even just on the signed statement of the signaller.

Ah thanks for correcting me, I assume the 2 methods I mention above are equally a deterrent as well as enforcement.

 

[throwaway1211]

Incorrect.
Prosecutions have occurred using the standard CCTV "Crossing view" cameras and even just on the signed statement of the signaller.

So I take it that it will be entirely up to the signaller whether he decides to report it to the authorities or not?

 

[CyrusWuff]

It should be noted that if the vehicle is leased (which company vehicles tend to be) it could be significantly longer than 14 days before the OP hears anything if an NIP is issued as there could potentially be three or four companies involved in the chain.

 

[throwaway1211]

It should be noted that if the vehicle is leased (which company vehicles tend to be) it could be significantly longer than 14 days before the OP hears anything if an NIP is issued as there could potentially be three or four companies involved in the chain.

The usual procedure for my company is the NIP goes to the lease company, who pays the fine, they will then find who was driving at the time and notify my company to deduct the fine + £25 admin fee from my next payslip and the fleet department is simply notified of this. Usually for minor speeding/bus lane/parking offences our Company will not do anything. Not sure about level crossings.

But seeing that running through a lane crossing comes under "Traffic light offence", they may not even know it was a level crossing. I think.

 

[throwaway1211]

Presuming that he saw enough he fills in a statement form with all the details, and probably ensures that the relevant CCTV section is "protected" and sends that the Crossing Misuse people at his Control. They then decide whether it goes to the BTP prosecution people or not. It is NOT dealt with by the Civil Police as suggested earlier, and is NOT a "due care and attention charge" but a specific charge of ignoring the red lights. As I understand it this charge does NOT allow the attendance at a Course.

I completed numerous reports in my time, since I actually overlooked the crossing I controlled and most that were actioned were given the choice of a Fixed Penalty Notice or they could choose to go to Court. In 10 years I only had that once and they decided to settle on the morning of the Hearing. (Still got a day's paid overtime for it!)

By the sound of it this was a full barriered crossing where the Signaller will have been watching the CCTV to ensure that the crossing was clear before lowering the barriers. Evidence from those cameras is monitored at all times the crossing is being activated and they have been used as evidence for prosecution numerous times.

I suggest you speak to your Transport Manager as soon as possible. Honesty is the best policy!

Thank you for the reponse! I will speak to the fleet department in the morning and give them a heads up, I agree.

From your experience, is it likely that I will just get a fixed penalty + points? Do I need to worry about potential driving ban or substantial fine? Many thanks

 

[Llanigraham]

So I take it that it will be entirely up to the signaller whether he decides to report it to the authorities or not?

If the form isn't filled in by the signaller then how are the authorities going to know about it? I can think of many occasions where I didn't do it, perhaps because I was too busy with other things such as arranging Line Blockages, or wasn't sure of the reg number as it was dirty.

 

[GB]

The usual procedure for my company is the NIP goes to the lease company, who pays the fine, they will then find who was driving at the time and notify my company to deduct the fine + £25 admin fee from my next payslip and the fleet department is simply notified of this. Usually for minor speeding/bus lane/parking offences our Company will not do anything. Not sure about level crossings.

But seeing that running through a lane crossing comes under "Traffic light offence", they may not even know it was a level crossing. I think.

That's how it generally works with standard fines/charges like parking etc, but when it also involves points (which this would) it should go to the hire/lease company who will then bat it back to the employer who will then send it to the actual driver. Gets a bit complicated though when its months later and no one knows (or remembers) who was driving!

 

[throwaway1211]

That's how it generally works with standard fines/charges like parking etc, but when it also involves points (which this would) it should go to the hire/lease company who will then bat it back to the employer who will then send it to the actual driver. Gets a bit complicated though when its months later and no one knows (or remembers) who was driving!

I’m just worried that I will receive a ban or something serious.

 

[throwaway1211]

If the form isn't filled in by the signaller then how are the authorities going to know about it? I can think of many occasions where I didn't do it, perhaps because I was too busy with other things such as arranging Line Blockages, or wasn't sure of the reg number as it was dirty.

Thank you! You are so extremely helpful. Do you reckon I risk being given more than just points + fine? Sorry if I come across as really panicky but this is my first job out of University and it is dependant on me having a driving license.

Also, I have spoken with my Fleet department and in-line manager about this and they have obviously said to be mindful whilst driving a company vehicle but other than that, I should not worry.