Rare service from Meadowhall Platform 4 to Sheffield

[Intercity 225]

Hi,

It goes without saying that there are loads of services from Meadowhall to Sheffield but they almost always use Platforms 1 & 3 for obvious reasons.

However about a decade ago there was one service daily (leaving approx 1900-2000 from memory) that used Platform 4 instead, it would then proceed down a little used stretch of track and park up next to the MML behind one of the disused platforms of the former Brightside station. After a couple of minutes waiting there it would go on to join the MML, but travel the “wrong way” down the track for a short distance. It would then finally use a set of points slightly to the south of the former Brightside station to return to the normal route to Sheffield for the remainder of the journey.

Does anyone know whether this service still runs? And also does anybody know why it exists/existed in the first place?

Many Thanks

 

[clagmonster]

Nothing currently booked to do it.

 

[_toommm_]

The closest would be this ECS on Sundays, which forms from a service that terminates at Meadowhall from Retford:

Realtime Trains - 5B85 1014 Meadowhall to Sheffield

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It’s booked on the slow over Wincobank Junction so I’d guess it uses the line behind the platforms at the former Brightside station.

Services have and do occasionally use it in service, although I’m not sure anything is booked over it in service without looking. The track was replaced a few years ago so it’s definitely rated for passenger services.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I seem to recall that in the fairly early years of Meadowhall station, it was common for trains from Barnsley (and beyond) to Sheffield to work over the described route. I couldn't say exactly when the practice ceased as a routine thing but was certainly some years ago.

 

[Ianno87]

The closest would be this ECS on Sundays, which forms from a service that terminates at Meadowhall from Retford:

Realtime Trains - 5B85 1014 Meadowhall to Sheffield

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It’s booked on the slow over Wincobank Junction so I’d guess it uses the line behind the platforms at the former Brightside station.

Yes, that is the only route available from the signal on P4; there's no crossover to get straight onto the Sheffield-bound main line, and the Doncaster-bound main line is not signalled in the 'wrong' direction.

See: https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/spc5

 

[Adam0984]

Hi,

It goes without saying that there are loads of services from Meadowhall to Sheffield but they almost always use Platforms 1 & 3 for obvious reasons.

However about a decade ago there was one service daily (leaving approx 1900-2000 from memory) that used Platform 4 instead, it would then proceed down a little used stretch of track and park up next to the MML behind one of the disused platforms of the former Brightside station. After a couple of minutes waiting there it would go on to join the MML, but travel the “wrong way” down the track for a short distance. It would then finally use a set of points slightly to the south of the former Brightside station to return to the normal route to Sheffield for the remainder of the journey.

Does anyone know whether this service still runs? And also does anybody know why it exists/existed in the first place?

Many Thanks

Worked it a couple of times i seem to remember it was 1740ish Leeds to Sheffield express.

 

[eastwestdivide]

For a while, the first Sunday morning South Trans Pennine service to Manchester started from Meadowhall platform 4. Not sure of the dates, last 10 years or so I think, possibly when TP had the 170s. I've a photo somewhere, but not accessible at the moment.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It used to run early evening back in day as I used to regularly get it from chapeltown.

 

[Intercity 225]

Thank you for all the replies, been an interesting read.

It’s particularly enlightening to discover that Sheffield services using platform 4 were more frequent historically.

The question remains, why was platform 4 used instead of 3 for these services though? Anybody have any ideas?

 

[Ianno87]

Thank you for all the replies, been an interesting read.

It’s particularly enlightening to discover that Sheffield services using platform 4 were more frequent historically.

The question remains, why was platform 4 used instead of 3 for these services though? Anybody have any ideas?

It's the only platform signalled for turnback moves (in either direction)


For through trains, it may avoid a conflict at Wincobank Jn (crossing closer to Sheffield instead)

 

[yorkie]

A few months ago, on a Sunday morning, I was on an EMR HST (diverted via Normanton & Barnsley) which paused in platform 4 before continuing towards Sheffield.

 

[Intercity 225]

It's the only platform signalled for turnback moves (in either direction)


For through trains, it may avoid a conflict at Wincobank Jn (crossing closer to Sheffield instead)

Ah yes, I should’ve specified through trains - makes perfect sense for turnbacks, as few and far between as they are currently.

The original service I started the thread about was a through train, I caught it a fair few times and enjoyed the novelty aspect hence me starting this thread.

A few months ago, on a Sunday morning, I was on an EMR HST (diverted via Normanton & Barnsley) which paused in platform 4 before continuing towards Sheffield.

That’s interesting, a good amount of unusual track covered that day for an HST by the sounds of it!

For route knowledge retention do drivers need to actually be in control of a train over sections of track that are rarely used even if they’re adjacent to regularly used lines? If so could services sometimes be sent via Meadowhall platform 4 + around the back of the disused Brightside station in order to fulfil this purpose?

 

[Harpers Tate]

There was an "incident" here a couple of years back, on a Sunday morning.
The first working from Retford (I think) towards Sheffield on a Sunday operated as a through service to Meadowhall where it was booked to terminate in P4 before reversing and returning to Sheffield, empty, to pick up further Lincoln diagrams,
And so that's what happened. Except that the line back towards Sheffield - the only one apparently that can be used for such a move; at the north side of the formation and behind the former Brightside station platform - was under posession and partly dismantled. Thus the train was unable to return directly to Sheffield.
By the time it did, it was ~1 hour late; apparently (according to the conductor) it had had to go empty all the way to Barnsley in order to switch tracks and return to Sheffield. There is, I gather, another crossover in the Barnsley line somewhere closer to Meadowhall but this was clamped out of use.

It's a shame that this wasn't pre-planned properly and the service either curtailed at Sheffield in the first place, or signalled to a different platform and reversed somewhere nearer (eg Holmes).

 

[Class 170101]

What I find odd its that whilst Platform 4 is bi-directional and accept moves towards Sheffield, Platform 2 which could perform the same sceneraio is only covered by a Ground Position Light rather than a full signal, why is this?

 

[Broken70]

The loop is used occasionally to avoid congestion at Meadowhall when services are delayed ex Sheffield. I've known it a few 'pre covid' times the xx:18 Leeds departure using it when the 2Nxx service is late causing knock on delays to the Transpennine Cleethorpes service and then allowing the Cross Country less delays.

Very rare these days however was commonly used.

 

[Adam0984]

The loop is used occasionally to avoid congestion at Meadowhall when services are delayed ex Sheffield. I've known it a few 'pre covid' times the xx:18 Leeds departure using it when the 2Nxx service is late causing knock on delays to the Transpennine Cleethorpes service and then allowing the Cross Country less delays.

Very rare these days however was commonly used.

Problem is it requires a manual intervention from the signaller who have to be watching it

 

[eastwestdivide]

For a while, the first Sunday morning South Trans Pennine service to Manchester started from Meadowhall platform 4. Not sure of the dates, last 10 years or so I think, possibly when TP had the 170s. I've a photo somewhere, but not accessible at the moment.

...Found them at last.
August 2010, First Transpennine 170301 with the 0900 Sundays Meadowhall-Manchester Airport. 3 photos, one alongside the derelict Brightside platforms, one the other side of the footbridge, and one crossing over to the main up line:

 

[lammergeier]

Ah yes, I should’ve specified through trains - makes perfect sense for turnbacks, as few and far between as they are currently.

The original service I started the thread about was a through train, I caught it a fair few times and enjoyed the novelty aspect hence me starting this thread.



That’s interesting, a good amount of unusual track covered that day for an HST by the sounds of it!

For route knowledge retention do drivers need to actually be in control of a train over sections of track that are rarely used even if they’re adjacent to regularly used lines? If so could services sometimes be sent via Meadowhall platform 4 + around the back of the disused Brightside station in order to fulfil this purpose?

For such a short stretch of track such as this, no. Not in my experience anyway. There are loads of unusual moves along the routes that I sign that I've never been over, but would be expected (and happy) to use if signalled.

 

[Tomnick]

What I find odd its that whilst Platform 4 is bi-directional and accept moves towards Sheffield, Platform 2 which could perform the same sceneraio is only covered by a Ground Position Light rather than a full signal, why is this?

The signalled move from platform 4 takes you via the Down Slow, which isn't physically accessible from platform 2. There's also a signalled move into platform 4 (through the facing crossover) from Barnsley. I suppose you could have a main aspect to take you back out from platform 2 straight out onto the Up - but why? There's no physical route into platform 2 from the east so it wouldn't be bi-di either.

 

[Ianno87]

The signalled move from platform 4 takes you via the Down Slow, which isn't physically accessible from platform 2. There's also a signalled move into platform 4 (through the facing crossover) from Barnsley. I suppose you could have a main aspect to take you back out from platform 2 straight out onto the Up - but why? There's no physical route into platform 2 from the east so it wouldn't be bi-di either.

Perhaps the logic is there is much less likely to be capacity to turn back on Platform 2 than Platform 4, so little point in providing the capability.

 

[Intercity 225]

...Found them at last.
August 2010, First Transpennine 170301 with the 0900 Sundays Meadowhall-Manchester Airport. 3 photos, one alongside the derelict Brightside platforms, one the other side of the footbridge, and one crossing over to the main up line:
View attachment 86727
View attachment 86725
View attachment 86726

Good photos!

And look at the state of the track - very obvious to the naked eye how little it's utilised compared to the main lines.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Good photos!

And look at the state of the track - very obvious to the naked eye how little it's utilised compared to the main lines.

There has been some re-laying work in more recent years.