Rarely used lines

[RJ]

I was just thinking about why some lines were built but rarely used if ever by passenger services.

Stratford-Limehouse
Forest Gate-Woodgrange Park
Lee Valley Reservoir-Seven Sisters via South Tottenham
Old Oak Common-Greenford
Willesden-Cricklewood
Streatham Hill-Tulse Hill
Bermondsey Spur

Were some of them built with the intention of exclusive freight use? And why do some see only one passenger train a day-if any?

 

[O L Leigh]

Hi Joe,

Don't forget that the shape of passenger and freight services was very different when the railways were built to the way they are today. Most of these lines (together with many that are now lost) would have seen heavy passenger and/or freight use.

Can't comment on the other lines, but the South Tottenham line is very useful and, as an hour at South Tottenham signalbox showed, busier than you might expect. Even though we don't operate a regular passenger service along that line, the Tottenham South Junction provides a link from Stratford (specifically Temple Mills) to the NLL and is heavily used for freight. It is electrified to provide a diversionary route for us betweeen the Lea Valley and Southbury lines and the option of a Stratford service calling at Seven Sisters (as was the case in a previous timetable). South Tottenham station itself is served by Silverlink's NLL GOBLIN service using Cl150's. 'one' don't serve it as the platforms are not long enough for a 4 car EMU.

one TN

 

[Met Driver]

Old Oak Common - Greenford saw regular passenger usage up until the '90s, when services ceased to operate from Paddington to destinations such as Birmingham via the Chiltern Rlys route.

What's the Bermondsey Spur, BTW?

 

[O L Leigh]

I once turned up for the 17:42 Stratford-Seven Sisters which never showed up. According to Simsig, it's used by ECS and the occasional freight.

Then I'm afraid Simsig is wrong.

It can be used for ECS from Seven Sisters/Enfield to Hornsey (HE) or Ilford (IL), but I've never known it ever done. Most ECS starts from LST and goes direct to IL along the GEML or to HE via the Graham Road Curve, the NLL and Finsbury Park. I'm not aware of any ECS to IL that might use the Stratford route actually doing so, and certainly none that come down via Seven Sisters. It really is primarily a freight route that links Temple Mills with the NLL.

one TN

 

[Nick W]

I was just thinking about why some lines were built but rarely used if ever by passenger services.

Stratford-Limehouse
Forest Gate-Woodgrange Park
Lee Valley Reservoir-Seven Sisters via South Tottenham
Old Oak Common-Greenford
Willesden-Cricklewood
Streatham Hill-Tulse Hill
Bermondsey Spur

Were some of them built with the intention of exclusive freight use? And why do some see only one passenger train a day-if any?

I'm guessing that they were build back when poeple thought that railways would rake in cash and recieved extrensive investment. Of course today with record pax numbers they still don't rake in cash.

It's just like recently many companies invested in extensive internet links but don't see much return due to cheapness of internet.

 

[Craig]

And why do some see only one passenger train a day-if any?

In some cases this is because the line used to receive a regular service and it's cheaper for the TOC to run the absolute bare minimum rather than have the line closed. These are known as parliamentary (or parly) trains. The once a week Stockport to Stalybridge train is an example.

 

[Craig]

But Stratford-Limehouse? Nothing goes over it!

Don't C2C run a few trains into Liverpool Street, wouldn't they use that line?

 

[AlexS]

'back in the day' when these lines were built there was one hell of a lot more trip freight and local workings than there is now. It's entirely possible some of these lines were constructed with that purpose in mind, but the freight itself collapsed back in the 50s and 60s.

 

[Craig]

It's entirely possible some of these lines were constructed with that purpose in mind, but the freight itself collapsed back in the 50s and 60s.

Or it's still there but the freight is now on the road :roll:

 

[hexflyer]

Old Oak Common - Greenford saw regular passenger usage up until the '90s, when services ceased to operate from Paddington to destinations such as Birmingham via the Chiltern Rlys route.

What's the Bermondsey Spur, BTW?

still used now by chiltern couple of services a day and more at weekends

 

[Julian G]

joe , you have forgotten to mention Newhaven Marine

 

[ikar]

joe , you have forgotten to mention Newhaven Marine

For those who don't know Newhaven Marine has a serivce... only it isn't in the public TT:

5F32 18+31 Lewes-Newhaven Marine and
2F32 18 52 Newhaven Marine-Lewes

operated Mon-Fri with a 3 car 377.


Nothing in the TT about Weekends Chiltern to Paddington.

 

[theblackwatch]

Don't C2C run a few trains into Liverpool Street, wouldn't they use that line?

No - this line enables trains to/from Stratford to run into Fenchurch St. I would assume that years back it was regularly used by passenger services. About 3 years ago it was used for some Sunday diversions, with c2c services running from Fenchurch St-Barking via Stratford - I presume the engineering work was somewhere around West Ham. Travelling down to London especially to do it, I found the journey over this rare bit of track took less than 1 minute!

 

[Julian G]

For those who don't know Newhaven Marine has a serivce... only it isn't in the public TT:

5F32 18+31 Lewes-Newhaven Marine and
2F32 18 52 Newhaven Marine-Lewes

operated Mon-Fri with a 3 car 377.


Nothing in the TT about Weekends Chiltern to Paddington.

they go to paddington when there are engineering works in marylebone/etc..

 

[Coxster]

they go to paddington when there are engineering works in marylebone/etc..

I'm sure when I saw this on 1st October last year it was on a 'proper' service rather than a dirverted service, although that would've been the old TT.

 

[Southern]

http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/intro.htm
I find this site quite useful.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Willesden-Cricklewood sees no nomal passenger services, but it does see the odd railtour. It also has quite a bit of freight traffic. It provides a useful link between the SR, WR, WCML, Chiltern line and MML. It was built as a passenger line with stations at Dudding Hill and Harlesden, which both closed in 1902, at which time the line became freight only. Another freight only line leaves the MML further south at Carlton Road Junction, between Belsize tunnel and Kentish Town, and links to the GOBLIN. This again provides a useful freight link to the ECML, GEML and LTS, and sees fairly good use. Again, it has no normal passenger workings. One interesting use it has had in the past is the transfer of 317s from Hornsey to Bedford when Thameslink have hired them from WAGN.

 

[Sprinter]

Forest Gate- Barking Flyover via Woodgrange Park is very useful for freight from Dagenham and Tilbury to reach the rest of the network (as c2c is effectively enclosed), and is the only way for electric locos to reach Tilbury (as the NLL GOBLIN is unelectrified).

Another use for this line is at weekends if Fenchurch Street-Barking has to be closed for engineering, c2c trains can then run via Woodgrange Park to terminate at Liverpool Street, hence why the two late evening c2c trains to/from Liv St are retained over this route primarily for driver route knowlege.

Stratford- Limehouse, although it appears to be disused, is indeed still used on occasions. I remember a time a few years ago when there was a large warehouse type fire near West Ham, closing the c2c route for several hours, thus some trains ran from Fenchurch Street via Stratford and Woodgrange Park to regain thier normal route at Barking.

 

[andel]

you whittle on about London - Heart of Wales (Mid Wales) sees about 8 trains a day.... or 4 on Sunday.

 

[Tomnick]

you whittle on about London - Heart of Wales (Mid Wales) sees about 8 trains a day.... or 4 on Sunday.

If that's bad, how about my local line (Wrawby Jn. - Gainsborough Trent) with its three weekly trains in each direction, or maybe the famous single Stockport - Stalybridge train every week, with no return working?

 

[Julian G]

Felixstowe Harbour gets 2 trains a week

Newhaven Marine gets 1 train a day

 

[Oracle]

Excuse me for my ignorance but is this the line that runs parallel to the DLR down from Stratford towards Bow Church...coming off at Bow Junction?

 

[Oracle]

Cheers! It rather reminded me of the freight lines adjacent to the Tyne & Wear Metro.

Regrettably our local timewarp line, Totton Junction - Marchwood and Fawley sees no passenger trains although Marchwood Military Railway has the special workings with the ex-Gatwick set (saw the 501 DT on a truck 18th April going to its new home). SWT have refused to entertain a passenger service and yet there is the remnants of a platform in the loop at Marchwood Down of the manual crossing gates, and a probable site at Hythe. Class 66s regularly use the line which is in good order now. The nearest we had to passenger trains was the stock stored at Marchwood until a few weeks back.

 

[Craig]

Cheers! It rather reminded me of the freight lines adjacent to the Tyne & Wear Metro.

They're all used daily.