RDG Changes to Retail Policies from Monday 7th September

[CyrusWuff]

With the next round of timetable changes due to come into effect on Monday 7th September, Rail Delivery Group are seeking a return to something akin to normality in terms of Retail Policies from that date, as follows:

Cross-Ticket Acceptance:

At present, TOC-specific tickets can be used on any operator's services between the same start and end stations, groups or zones, subject to the normal time restrictions (for walk-up tickets) or the original train being delayed or cancelled (Advance tickets).

This will generally cease to apply from 04:30 on Monday 7th September, except where a service remains excluded from the timetable or during severe disruption. Ticket acceptance MAY also be in place where a local lockdown applies, but this will be briefed out separately.

Refund Admin and Change of Journey Fees:

Tickets purchased until 23:59 on Sunday 6th September will remain free to change (any ticket type) or refund (Anytime and [Super] Off-Peak tickets only), though other Term and Conditions for those tickets (e.g. time restrictions) apply as normal.

Normal administration fees will apply to refunds and changes to travel plans for tickets purchased on or after Monday 7th September.

Excess Tickets:

This easement will continue to apply to the first excess issued on a ticket purchased on or before 6th September 2020, but normal change of journey fees should apply for any further changes, or to any tickets purchased on or after Monday 7th September.

Target Refund Processing Time:

This was extended to 56 days towards the end of March, but reverts to one month (per Condition 29.3 of the NRCoT) with effect from Monday 7th September.

Season Ticket Refund Backdating:

Normal refund rules, per Condition 40 of the NRCoT, will apply to requests submitted on or after Monday 7th September, namely it will only be possible to backdate a refund where suitable medical evidence is supplied.

Time Limit for Requesting a Refunds:

Tickets purchased before 23:59 on Sunday 6th September remain eligible for refund up to 56 days later, regardless of the date of travel.

Tickets purchased on or after Monday 7th September will only be eligible for refund within 28 days.

For example: An Off-Peak Day Return purchased on Saturday 5th September for travel on Monday 7th September will be eligible for refund until Monday 2nd November.

The same ticket purchased on Monday 7th September for immediate travel will only be eligible for refund until Monday 5th October.

Refunds or Extensions to Carnet Tickets:

Are not covered by the general policies, so this is a matter for individual TOCs to determine and brief.

Remote Season Ticket Refunds:

These continue to be available until further notice.

Public information page on NRE: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/coronavirus_refunds.aspx

 

[yorksrob]

How underwhelming.

I don't really see how these changes are going to persuade passengers back.

 

[221129]

How underwhelming.

I don't really see how these changes are going to persuade passengers back.

They are not supposed to. They are to move back towards normal.

 

[yorksrob]

They are not supposed to. They are to move back towards normal.

One would have thought "normal" would involve getting more of the passengers back.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Seems reasonable to return to something more like normal once service levels do likewise. That appears to be planned for September (but is not everywhere I know).

There will undoubtedly be losers in the situation - for example those who book an Advance and then find that a 'local lockdown' affects their plans. But most 'local lockdowns' do not prevent travel to an area (although it is discouraged), it does prevent travellers visiting other people in their homes, so family and friends trips are affected but not hotel trips.

I suggest, as with international quarantine restrictions which may be imposed mid-travel, that individuals will have to start making risk based decisions based upon their personal circumstances ie can I afford to lose the cost of an Advance, or book (buy on the day) a flexible ticket which will be refundable.

A fleet footed RDG/RSP could introduce local policies - as is hinted at in the phrase above

Ticket acceptance MAY also be in place where a local lockdown applies, but this will be briefed out separately.

which could also include refunds / amendments to all tickets to stations within an announced lockdown area.

 

[gray1404]

It certainly hasn't been placed in the public domain that TOC-specific tickets can be used on any operator's services. This would have been very useful when using WMT Liverpool to London tickets recently.

 

[221129]

Cross-Ticket Acceptance:

At present, TOC-specific tickets can be used on any operator's services between the same start and end stations, groups or zones, subject to the normal time restrictions (for walk-up tickets) or the original train being delayed or cancelled (Advance tickets).

This will generally cease to apply from 04:30 on Monday 7th September, except where a service remains excluded from the timetable or during severe disruption. Ticket acceptance MAY also be in place where a local lockdown applies, but this will be briefed out separately.

As far as anyone at my TOC knows this ended a few weeks ago.

 

[Wolfie]

It certainly hasn't been placed in the public domain that TOC-specific tickets can be used on any operator's services. This would have been very useful when using WMT Liverpool to London tickets recently.

Ditto for my London to Shropshire journey.

 

[yorkie]

As far as anyone at my TOC knows this ended a few weeks ago.

I hope no-one has been incorrectly charged. Presumably not as I've not seen any checks by XC staff.

 

[matt]

https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/disruption suggests that this has not ended on XC but will on the 6th

Ticket arrangements
CrossCountry tickets are being accepted on all other operators’ services, on any reasonable route between the origin and destination printed on your ticket, this arrangement is in place until the end of the day on 6 September 2020.

 

[221129]

I hope no-one has been incorrectly charged. Presumably not as I've not seen any checks by XC staff.

Indeed.

 

[LowLevel]

It certainly hasn't been placed in the public domain that TOC-specific tickets can be used on any operator's services. This would have been very useful when using WMT Liverpool to London tickets recently.

To be fair it was to allow people to be sorted out with a minimum of fuss in the event of disruption particularly with COVID taking a hatchet to timetables in parts (more short notice disruption due to staff shortages was expected than actually occurred) rather than to allow people to take advantage of using the cheapest fares on the more expensive operators. Hence various relaxations were publicised to staff but not to the public.

 

[nedchester]

Now correct me if I’m wrong but I have a LNWR Anytime Advance from London to Liverpool next Wednesday. Are you saying I can use that on Avanti from Euston to Liverpool?

If so do you have a link?

 

[Wolfie]

Now correct me if I’m wrong but I have a LNWR Anytime Advance from London to Liverpool next Wednesday. Are you saying I can use that on Avanti from Euston to Liverpool?

If so do you have a link?

I am curious, particularly given that Avanti are running compulsory seat reservations as l understand it, how this works.

 

[Haywain]

Now correct me if I’m wrong but I have a LNWR Anytime Advance from London to Liverpool next Wednesday. Are you saying I can use that on Avanti from Euston to Liverpool?

You haven’t got a walk-up ticket, so no.

 

[nedchester]

You haven’t got a walk-up ticket, so no.

Source of information?

 

[Haywain]

Source of information?

The second paragraph of post #1 in this thread, which quotes directly from a RDG brief.

 

[nedchester]

The second paragraph of post #1 in this thread, which quotes directly from a RDG brief.

I read that but it’s not entirely clear....as it’s both an Anytime and an Advance.,.

 

[gray1404]

Sounds like the theory or the brief above and the reality of the application of such a brief in practice are two different things.

 

[Haywain]

I read that but it’s not entirely clear....as it’s both an Anytime and an Advance.,.

The word Advance makes it clear it’s not a walk-up ticket.

 

[FlambeGarlic14]

This is the issue I have for Saturday.

I hold a WMR Anytime Advance EUS-LIV however after booking (and only by me checking something online) that it turns out WMR are only running LIV-Crewe and that the journey planners are showing to use Avanti to Crewe and connect.

 

[SickyNicky]

This is the issue I have for Saturday.

I hold a WMR Anytime Advance EUS-LIV however after booking (and only by me checking something online) that it turns out WMR are only running LIV-Crewe and that the journey planners are showing to use Avanti to Crewe and connect.

I believe that they are running, just not direct. You'll need to change at Stafford, Crewe or Birmingham.

 

[Skie]

The ticket refund and alteration rules going back to what they were is a bit of a daft move. Can’t encourage people to come back in uncertain times if they are going to be penalised for taking the chance and suffering when things change.

Should at least have an exception if part of your journey is affected by a new lockdown, local or wider.

 

[nedchester]

Turned up for the 18:46 From Euston to Crewe with my Anytime Advance from London to Liverpool to find it cancelled. As per the RDG rules above I requested to use the 19:07 Avanti to Liverpool but turned down by various staff at Euston and LNWR Twitter.

Now on 19:46 but will be well over an hour late (delay repay I suppose)

 

[yorkie]

Some staff have made it absolutely clear they are not going to be adhering to the agreement.

Who is going to make them? There is no proper ombudsman or passenger rights lobby group that has any power and the DfT are not in the slightest bit interested!

 

[gray1404]

Turned up for the 18:46 From Euston to Crewe with my Anytime Advance from London to Liverpool to find it cancelled. As per the RDG rules above I requested to use the 19:07 Avanti to Liverpool but turned down by various staff at Euston and LNWR Twitter.

Now on 19:46 but will be well over an hour late (delay repay I suppose)

Did you attempt to board the 19.07 or were barrier checks in place and you were prevented boarding?

 

[nedchester]

Did you attempt to board the 19.07 or were barrier checks in place and you were prevented boarding?

There were no barrier staff so I asked the conductor but was flatly refused. One of the staff at Euston (Avanti) did say to me. "You're talking about the RDG guidelines aren't you?" and that is when he directed me to the guard of the 19:07. I suppose I could have just boarded the 19:07 and awaited the guard but really didn't want a scene in front of passengers.

Complaint gone into both LNWR and Avanti plus delay repay.

 

[yorkie]

The rail industry does treat passengers in an appalling manner at times; none of this surprises me.

If questioned, officially they will day they have ticket acceptance in place.

Anyone who is charged would be refunded if they spend enough of their time chasing it, which may involve referring the case to the Ombudsman, but in many cases the value of their time will exceed the value of any sun recovered.

There is no convenience for staff who mistreat passengers or don't read the relevant briefings; there is no concequence for TOCs who fail to brief their staff, or have adequate safeguards in place to avoid mistreating passengers.

People talk about reforming aspects of the rail industry but the way it treats customers, especially over ticketing matters, has to be top of the list. But it won't happen, at least not in any meaningful way.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, and there is no-one who has the desire, the knowledge and the power to do anything about it (some people/organisations have one or two of those qualities, but not all three!)

As things currently stand, I believe nothing is going to change in this area.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As things currently stand, I believe nothing is going to change in this area.

The only way I can see it changing is if we move to "the computer says no", i.e. staff lose all discretion in ticketing matters and just have to do what the computer says. The problem then of course is when the computer gets it wrong, e.g. the LNER vouchers - but even that shows contempt for passengers, as LNER know full well who has been issued the dud vouchers and could, rather than coming up with a sloppy workaround, write to them with new ones to replace them.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

As things currently stand, I believe nothing is going to change in this area.

Unfortunately, I agree; I don't see the rail industry doing anything. It economically works in the favour of the TOCs, and thus the DfT for the time being at least, to keep things as they are, despite the poor treatment of customers. It'd be likened to shooting themselves in the foot if they were to change it. The RDG's "simple fare reforms", to me at least, were just a bit of marketing to make people more confident with franchising. However, with the forthcoming concession model, I very much doubt they will even consider following anything through- I suspect they wouldn't have done regardless. But that's a discussion not to be had here.