RDG trial/Budget announcement: 26-30 Railcard from Spring 2018

[tsr]

I wonder if there could be one National Railcard, with blanket terms and conditions, but with different prices for different demographics / age brackets, special promotions aimed at various travel patterns, First Class upgrades applicable at certain times, etc.

At the moment there are so many different combinations of T&Cs it gets confusing, not to mention different retail prices. It also takes ages to iron out the bugs in ticket issuing systems whenever they are released.

You could price it according to today's rates (or as per inflation), so £20 for the Disabled Railcard, £30 for the 16-25, etc., but with a slightly higher price for 26-30, and in turn also for anyone else.

You would simply bring the required proof of eligibility to a ticket office, or upload it online, and it would be retailed at the correct price.

Off peak travel for accompanying passengers could be provided on the basis of the Gold Card discounts, or Network Railcard ones, or whatever was appropriate.

Two Together would be harder to implement, though there could be an upfront discount for buying more than one at once, or something. That sort of thing would need more work!

(The waters may be further muddied by regional Railcards and employer / student discount schemes, but there would be no reason not to sell those at a lower price for a more limited area, for example. You could have different regions, eg. South East / South West / North West, and National, a bit like the different regional rovers and rangers, with the ALR towering over the lot.)

 

[bb21]

A single standardised product with a few different tiers in terms of pricing and restrictions may do the trick. It may mean certain parts of the population lose a little and others gain a little, but should be able to offer a simplified product with more uniform and less confusing terms. I think atm each Railcard has some unique terms about it, and it is difficult for any individual to remember all of them.

 

[pemma]

An alternative to a national railcard could be a loyalty scheme where points can be exchanged for tickets and the number of points accumulated depends on the type and the value of the ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A single standardised product with a few different tiers in terms of pricing and restrictions may do the trick. It may mean certain parts of the population lose a little and others gain a little, but should be able to offer a simplified product with more uniform and less confusing terms. I think atm each Railcard has some unique terms about it, and it is difficult for any individual to remember all of them.

Agreed.

I can cope with the idea of differences between Railcards in terms of who travels (i.e. Two Together, DSB+companion, Network and Family groups etc) - that's similar enough and the key differentiator. But I can see no valid argument for having different T&Cs in terms of things like validity time, minimum fares, ticket types valid etc. Those should all be the same[1]. Some would win and some lose, but overall it would be positive.

The other positive effect of that would be to simplify ticketing. Rather than having to select Railcard type, you would simply purchase a Railcard discounted ticket.

The NSE minimum fare could go in favour of a higher price for the Railcard (again moving towards a National Railcard).

[1] I'm not sure what they should be - there are a few options. One would be a blanket "not after 0430 and before 0930 except Sleeper services". Another would be a minimum discounted adult fare of say £20 or £30 before 0930/1000/whatever. A third would be "no discount on Anytime fares unless no Off Peak/Super Off Peak is available for the flow". All have ups and downs, it's really just a case of picking one and making it clear.

 

[ainsworth74]

[1] I'm not sure what they should be - there are a few options. One would be a blanket "not after 0430 and before 0930 except Sleeper services". Another would be a minimum discounted adult fare of say £20 or £30 before 0930/1000/whatever. A third would be "no discount on Anytime fares unless no Off Peak/Super Off Peak is available for the flow". All have ups and downs, it's really just a case of picking one and making it clear.

Personally I'd suggest a minimum fare of £20 before 1000 (so broadly inline with the current 16 - 25 just with a higher minimum fare). Having a blanket 'no travel before 0930' restriction makes long distance journeys (where the Railcard is most valuable) rather annoying as you cannot get an early start!

For instance, from Darlington, the first railcard discountable service to London, if the restriction was 0930, doesn't arrive until 1242!!! (You can get around that by splitting on the 0928 from Darlington to get an 1151 arrival but that's still hardly ideal for a day trip to London).

From the Railway perspective £20 protects, certainly up North, quite a lot of valuable commuter routes for example, Skipton/Ilkley/Harrogate to Leeds would all not be valid with a railcard discount until 1000 as the Anytime's are all sub-£20. That being said I could certainly see an argument for £30 (as long as the current 16 - 25 term that AP's are excluded from minimum fare is carried over) as that would then protect flows like Manchester to Leeds.

 

[telstarbox]

For the Network Railcard, why is there a £13 minimum fare on weekdays but not weekends? The 'no discount before 1000 on weekdays' rule makes sense, as it's a leisure product, but on some lines* weekday evening trains are quieter than weekend daytime trains.

*From recent experience: from Gravesend to London at 1900, on Monday-Thursday you might get a carriage to yourself, on a Friday or Saturday half the seats will be taken - mix of Kent people having a night out in London plus Londoners returning from day trips to Kent.

 

[yorksrob]

For the Network Railcard, why is there a £13 minimum fare on weekdays but not weekends? The 'no discount before 1000 on weekdays' rule makes sense, as it's a leisure product, but on some lines* weekday evening trains are quieter than weekend daytime trains.

*From recent experience: from Gravesend to London at 1900, on Monday-Thursday you might get a carriage to yourself, on a Friday or Saturday half the seats will be taken - mix of Kent people having a night out in London plus Londoners returning from day trips to Kent.

I'm presuming that this argument for fewer restrictions on weekdays, rather than more on weekends !

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the Network Railcard, why is there a £13 minimum fare on weekdays but not weekends?

Because otherwise a few TOCs threatened to pull out (it's not a mandatory product) which would have killed it had it not been so.

One such TOC was I believe Chiltern (I think a name and shame is justified). I don't know which the others were.

 

[Bletchleyite]

From the Railway perspective £20 protects, certainly up North, quite a lot of valuable commuter routes for example, Skipton/Ilkley/Harrogate to Leeds would all not be valid with a railcard discount until 1000 as the Anytime's are all sub-£20. That being said I could certainly see an argument for £30 (as long as the current 16 - 25 term that AP's are excluded from minimum fare is carried over) as that would then protect flows like Manchester to Leeds.

£30 was more aimed at protecting highly lucrative medium-distance London commuter routes, while still allowing for the kind of long-distance journey where you lose most of the day if you don't start it before 10. The effect is also needed to prevent walk-ups being cheaper than season tickets thus causing serious queueing issues at TVMs/ticket offices.

But then for the ultimate protection, "not on Anytimes unless there is no Off Peak" would achieve basically the same.

You could, with a National Railcard, perhaps go for a German style card valid at all times as well as an off peak one, but you'd be needing to look at a price point of £250-£300 or even more for the card.

 

[telstarbox]

I'm presuming that this argument for fewer restrictions on weekdays, rather than more on weekends !

For the avoidance of doubt, yes! At least the Southeastern ticket machines warn you that it'll cost more with the Railcard discount than without.

 

[ainsworth74]

£30 was more aimed at protecting highly lucrative medium-distance London commuter routes, while still allowing for the kind of long-distance journey where you lose most of the day if you don't start it before 10. The effect is also needed to prevent walk-ups being cheaper than season tickets thus causing serious queueing issues at TVMs/ticket offices.

I think we're agreeing with each other?

But then for the ultimate protection, "not on Anytimes unless there is no Off Peak" would achieve basically the same.

Indeed but then I think that would be too far personally!

You could, with a National Railcard, perhaps go for a German style card valid at all times as well as an off peak one, but you'd be needing to look at a price point of £250-£300 or even more for the card.

I'd certainly pay that for a National Railcard that discounted all tickets at the usual 33% at all times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd certainly pay that for a National Railcard that discounted all tickets at the usual 33% at all times.

That sort of charge could be attractive to business travellers and potentially encourage use of rail instead of car for long distance business travel, or potentially even encourage trading-up to 1st.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

And here you go.

Not quite as restrictive as some were suggesting!

Details below:

26-30 RAILCARD TRIAL
This Autumn, the Rail Delivery Group will be trialling a new addition to the Railcard family; the 26-30
Railcard.
For the duration of the trial, the new Railcard will be:
• available as a digital Railcard ONLY. 26 – 30 Railcards will be available through the ‘Railcard’ app on iOS and Android mobile devices – No physical cards issued;
• available as a one-year Railcard only;
• based on the existing 16-25 Railcard offering - same conditions and time restrictions will apply (with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed);
• be available for 26 – 30 year olds inclusive (Railcard eligibility will be up to and including the day before customer turns 31);
• limited (sales) to customers living in the Greater Anglia geographical area only, until early January. From early 2018 the trial will be expanded to retail nationwide;
• available to be used nationwide;
• limited to 10k Railcard sales in Greater Anglia area, with an additional 10k being added when the product goes national in early 2018.

A full brief will be distributed closer to the
release date with further information and
specimen images.

 

[PermitToTravel]

"with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed"

ffs get it right

 

[MikeWh]

"with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed"

ffs get it right

I think it means that the July/August relaxation will be removed, possibly accepting that it would be used too much for commuting if that remained.

 

[higthomas]

And here you go.

Not quite as restrictive as some were suggesting!

Details below:

26-30 RAILCARD TRIAL
This Autumn, the Rail Delivery Group will be trialling a new addition to the Railcard family; the 26-30
Railcard.
For the duration of the trial, the new Railcard will be:
• available as a digital Railcard ONLY. 26 – 30 Railcards will be available through the ‘Railcard’ app on iOS and Android mobile devices – No physical cards issued;
• available as a one-year Railcard only;
• based on the existing 16-25 Railcard offering - same conditions and time restrictions will apply (with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed);
• be available for 26 – 30 year olds inclusive (Railcard eligibility will be up to and including the day before customer turns 31);
• limited (sales) to customers living in the Greater Anglia geographical area only, until early January. From early 2018 the trial will be expanded to retail nationwide;
• available to be used nationwide;
• limited to 10k Railcard sales in Greater Anglia area, with an additional 10k being added when the product goes national in early 2018.

A full brief will be distributed closer to the
release date with further information and
specimen images.

Well I'm rather surprised at keeping the same restrictions. I was certain they'd be fairly similar to the two together one (not before 9:30)

Also, I wonder how the only 10,000 will work once it is national. I'd have thought it would be much more popular than that.

 

[Merseysider]

Well I'm rather surprised at keeping the same restrictions. I was certain they'd be fairly similar to the two together one (not before 9:30)

Also, I wonder how the only 10,000 will work once it is national. I'd have thought it would be much more popular than that.

Presumably to measure the effects on revenue without significant risk.

 

[fishquinn]

Provided that the trial is a success and they roll it out properly, does anyone know if it'll also be available as a paper copy and as a three year copy?

 

[higthomas]

Presumably to measure the effects on revenue without significant risk.

I imagine you're right, I'd just thought that was what the East Anglian trial was for.

Provided that the trial is a success and they roll it out properly, does anyone know if it'll also be available as a paper copy and as a three year copy?

I think that sort of information is rather secret at the moment, but I really hope so. I do not want a digital railcard.

 

[Haywain]

Provided that the trial is a success and they roll it out properly, does anyone know if it'll also be available as a paper copy and as a three year copy?

This is just my view, but I expect it will remain digital only.

 

[jon0844]

This is just my view, but I expect it will remain digital only.

Having gone digital, RDG may be testing a number of things here.

Namely how to manage cards to limited numbers, or a limited area. Plus testing how quick and easy it might be to launch other 'promotional' railcards in the future.

All a lot easier than providing new cards to all stations, new literature and so on. Indeed, there won't even be the same need to train staff on anything but knowing they exist and how to identify a valid railcard.

I expect existing railcards on paper will be safe for some time though.

 

[ainsworth74]

Those conditions are very good! Much better than I was expecting to be honest!! Considering there so good I'm going to have a whinge () and complain that it's irritating that walk-up first class tickets are presumably prohibited still.

This is just my view, but I expect it will remain digital only.

Yes I'd agree with that but I expect a three year version will appear in due course after the trial.

 

[Kelvin]

Afternoon Solent&Wessex,

I'm a consumer writer for MoneySavingExpert.com and we're looking to do a news story on the 26-30 Railcard trial.

I contacted the Rail Delivery Group press office and they pretty much said 'no comment', so I was wondering if you'd be willing to disclose where you got these details from?

Thanks for your time and help,

Kelvin

And here you go.

Not quite as restrictive as some were suggesting!

Details below:

26-30 RAILCARD TRIAL
This Autumn, the Rail Delivery Group will be trialling a new addition to the Railcard family; the 26-30
Railcard.
For the duration of the trial, the new Railcard will be:
• available as a digital Railcard ONLY. 26 – 30 Railcards will be available through the ‘Railcard’ app on iOS and Android mobile devices – No physical cards issued;
• available as a one-year Railcard only;
• based on the existing 16-25 Railcard offering - same conditions and time restrictions will apply (with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed);
• be available for 26 – 30 year olds inclusive (Railcard eligibility will be up to and including the day before customer turns 31);
• limited (sales) to customers living in the Greater Anglia geographical area only, until early January. From early 2018 the trial will be expanded to retail nationwide;
• available to be used nationwide;
• limited to 10k Railcard sales in Greater Anglia area, with an additional 10k being added when the product goes national in early 2018.

A full brief will be distributed closer to the
release date with further information and
specimen images.

 

[yorksrob]

That's bad news IMO if people are forced into buying inferior digital products, rather than being given the choice of format which suits them.

 

[Hadders]

That's bad news IMO if people are forced into buying inferior digital products, rather than being given the choice of format which suits them.

Blimey! How is a digital Railcard for 26-30 year olds in any way inferior to what's currently on offer?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Because otherwise a few TOCs threatened to pull out (it's not a mandatory product) which would have killed it had it not been so.

One such TOC was I believe Chiltern (I think a name and shame is justified). I don't know which the others were.

I think you'll find the main "culprit" behind the introduction of the minimum fare was, in fact, South West Trains...

 

[yorksrob]

Blimey! How is a digital Railcard for 26-30 year olds in any way inferior to what's currently on offer?

It would be inferior to a railcard for 26-30 year olds, available in the full range of formats.

 

[91109]

And here you go.

Not quite as restrictive as some were suggesting!

Details below:

26-30 RAILCARD TRIAL
This Autumn, the Rail Delivery Group will be trialling a new addition to the Railcard family; the 26-30
Railcard.
For the duration of the trial, the new Railcard will be:
• available as a digital Railcard ONLY. 26 – 30 Railcards will be available through the ‘Railcard’ app on iOS and Android mobile devices – No physical cards issued;
• available as a one-year Railcard only;
• based on the existing 16-25 Railcard offering - same conditions and time restrictions will apply (with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed);
• be available for 26 – 30 year olds inclusive (Railcard eligibility will be up to and including the day before customer turns 31);
• limited (sales) to customers living in the Greater Anglia geographical area only, until early January. From early 2018 the trial will be expanded to retail nationwide;
• available to be used nationwide;
• limited to 10k Railcard sales in Greater Anglia area, with an additional 10k being added when the product goes national in early 2018.

A full brief will be distributed closer to the
release date with further information and
specimen images.

Just received the same briefing. Be interesting to see if it works.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Afternoon Solent&Wessex,

I'm a consumer writer for MoneySavingExpert.com and we're looking to do a news story on the 26-30 Railcard trial.

I contacted the Rail Delivery Group press office and they pretty much said 'no comment', so I was wondering if you'd be willing to disclose where you got these details from?

Thanks for your time and help,

Kelvin

Afraid one needs to keep one's real identity and sources secret. The briefing was circulated internally within the industry to rail staff today, as noted by another poster who seems to work elsewhere in the industry, later in the thread.

 

[gswindale]

It would be inferior to a railcard for 26-30 year olds, available in the full range of formats.

How so?

That suggests that a paper card that could get ruined by leaving it in your pocket when you wash your jeans is a better option than having the card on your phone.

It will be interesting to see the outcome of this trial and to see if a national railcard option for those of us between the age of 31 and 59 ever becomes an option.

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