RDG trial/Budget announcement: 26-30 Railcard from Spring 2018

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by mrmartin, 16 Sep 2017.

  1. chris11256

    chris11256 Member

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    Just to add my experiences. I was able to get one in March last year with the idea to save money on commuting.

    I commute from Thorpe Bay and buy a daily travel card, using the railcard does save a good few hundred pounds a year against a season ticket. Mainly when you consider my 25 days annual leave, bank holidays and the two week Christmas shutdown at work. This adds up to make my daily tickets much cheaper. As a result when my annual ticket expired in July, it wasn’t renewed.

    Just to add that I’m one the train now, so don’t have my spreadsheet with all of the numbers.
     
  2. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Perhaps having seperate 16-25 and 26-30 Railcards is so the Ts and Cs *could* be deviated more in future?
     
  3. A Challenge

    A Challenge Established Member

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    Possibly also so the 26-30 can be online only?
     
  4. Mark J

    Mark J Member

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    So let me get this right. The 26-30 Railcard has a 12 pound minimum fare between 4:30am and 10am but no minimum fare during the week, after this time?

    National eligibility and also Oyster PAYG 1/3 discount.

    How is this fair for everyone else who holds other railcards?

    This now makes the Network Railcard vastly overpriced for what "perks" are given in comparison, with its no eligibility before 10am and 13 pound minimum fare after 10am, Mon - Fri and NO Oyster PAYG discounts available.

    Surely it would make sense to get rid of this plethora of Railcards and have just ONE, offering the same perks, available to all?
     
  5. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    It's so much better than the North East Railcard though.
     
  6. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    The 26-30 railcard has the exact same benefits as the 16-25 railcard, apart from not relaxing the minimum fare in July and August. If the Network card had not had the weekday minimum fare introduced then it would have been killed off completely. That minimum fare is the reason why it can't have discount on PAYG - there are virtually no fares where a discount could be applied on weekdays.

    There is already a thread discussing the possibility of merging all railcards into one. It's a minefield as the differences are largely there for a reason.
     
  7. Mark J

    Mark J Member

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    There is this stupid misconception that 26-30 year olds are "worse off" than adults from 31 -59, one of the factors why this railcard was introduced. In a number of cases this is not true. Again we are just seeing another section of society "pampered" at the expense of everyone else. I am 40 and can assure you not "well off", yet the misconception is that I can afford expensive non-discounted fares during the week.

    As it now stands everyone (single people) bar healthy, in work people, aged 31-59 now receive some kind of all week, national rail discount. Everyone else has to either pay full price, put up with a 13 pound minimum fare in a geographically locked area, or have to travel with someone else (two together + family).
     
  8. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It sort of is true - certainly with respect to Brexit and house prices, both of which have benefitted, or will benefit, Gen-X and Boomers more than millennials and post-millennials. I thought house prices were expensive when I bought mine (about 7 years ago) - they are now off-the-scale ridiculous, with friends currently buying a house of a similar size to mine paying nearly twice as much as I did.

    I do however think to some extent it's a vote winning sop rather than an attempt to look at the proper issues, e.g. to impose some kind of Dutch-style control of house sales to restrict e.g. overseas investors and turn housing into something you buy to live in, not so much as an investment.
     
  9. Mark J

    Mark J Member

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    Whilst I am not getting into politics on this forum. I can tell you that there are an awful lot of people aged 31-59 in minimum wage jobs. How are 26-30 year olds in MW jobs (or many in higher paying jobs) more deserved of a national railcard, offering a third off travel after 10am, than everyone else?

    I strongly believe in the same rules applied to all, not just certain groups, or the few.
     
  10. absolutelymilk

    absolutelymilk Established Member

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    On average, 26-30 year olds are more likely to be in minimum wage jobs and to be earning less than 31-59 year olds.

    In addition, giving the under 30s a railcard means that they get in the habit of commuting by train when they are young, so that when they are older and can afford to pay more, they are likely to keep taking the train.
     
  11. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    I suppose a few points; I see another post has been written adressing some of this while I write:

    1. Nobody anyone actually thinks that all under 30s are in poor paying jobs, or all 30-59 year olds are in well paying jobs. The railcard is clearly based on taking the trends for these generations as groups of people. as wages have stagnated in relation to cost of living, notably with regards to transport and home ownership, 26-30 year olds are as a group worse off than people in their 30s, 40s and 50s.

    2. Either way, most railcards are about encouraging more rail use. Presumably, people within the Rail Delivery Group think that by introducing this railcard, they're encouraging more 20somethings into rail travel that they would otherwise not be able to afford and would not therefore make.

    3. In a previous post you complained about the relative quality of discounts over a Network Railcard. As WallsendMag somewhat hinted, your own argument could be turned back to you - why are people in the South East more deserving of a discount than season ticket holders elsewhere in the country? The answer, btw, is nothing to do with 'deserving'. Rather, the higher number of users means that there is more stock required for the peak that would be running empty off-peak. So the Network Railcard helps encourage travel to fill that stock

    4. FWIW, I think you're right that some sort of nationally available, age unrestricted railcard would be a good thing. But the majority of railcards (there are exceptions - jobseekers, armed forces, disabled persons) are commercial products, rather than social tools given to the 'deserving'
     
  12. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    That one occurred to me as well. The trend in young people is against learning to drive. I bet a lot do at 25-26 due to the jump in train fares. If 30+ year olds were going to learn to drive, most of them already did. Over-30s learning to drive are normally those who have had a big life change e.g. a divorce or bereavement and their partner always drove everywhere.

    That said I still do want a National Railcard, and would be willing to pay quite a lot for it. I'd get a Hatton-Lapworth Gold Card (or whatever the cheap one presently is) if it had validity on VTWC.
     
  13. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    I think owning a car and/or driving regularly is not quite the "rite of passage" or status symbol it once was, especially with the trend to move to urban areas more to seek employment, where public transport provision is better (and more likely to have gone to University, requiring reliance on public transport)

    It was only starting a family that drove me (pardon the pun) to owning my first car, quite a number of years after learning to drive. And I find every excuse not to have to use it.
     
  14. BigCj34

    BigCj34 Member

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    Could you not get a Network railcard for the WCML validity for an extra £10 if you had the Gold Card?
     
  15. BigCj34

    BigCj34 Member

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    Coming from a small rural Cumbrian town people that could learn to drive when 17 did, and back then public transport was actually better before subsidy cuts.

    I live in east Anglia and public transport is OK though had to get a car for work purposes. I mainly use the car for work and local use as public transport takes longer. For medium distance trips onwards, having the new railcard means I try to get the train where possible.
     
  16. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I've got one. It's validity northwards from MKC I would want.

    Basically, I'd pay £150/year or thereabouts for a National Railcard, not only a slight extension of the Network Railcard.
     
  17. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    I wonder if they will have to introduce some sort of North of England railcard in order to win back all of the discretionary travel lost by the current debacle.
     
  18. Joe Paxton

    Joe Paxton Established Member

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    Bit of a generalisation there. Families having children and/or moving somewhere where public transport is worse (move prompted by desire for larger family-friendly property and/or perceived preferable place to have their children grow up in) is common. Even with no move, quite often starting a family prompts either a car purchase for a couple that don't have one, or prompts the non-driving partner to learn. (Yes I am speaking about two-parent families, but that's because it's where this dynamic can often be seen).

    I see Ianno87 has made a similar point above.
     
  19. Joe Paxton

    Joe Paxton Established Member

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    I've wondered about the custom that the railways have lost during disputes before, particularly during the Southern meltdown.

    I wonder if an analysis of say south coast towns might show a higher than average rate of people registering cars (i.e. not just replacements for existing cars), or higher than average rate of driving licence applications around this time?
     
  20. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    Hardly. Rail fares have had to be pushed up in the major conurbations and around them with additional restrictions in the last few years. It would be a bit strange to then make them cheaper again using a railcard product.
     
  21. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Firstly, these restrictions were introduced at peak times when a railcard would be unlikely to apply. Secondly, they were introduced at a time before the rail industry imploded and began to destroy its own passenger base.
     
  22. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    All the Railcards without exception can be used without restriction in the evening peak.
     
  23. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    The evening peak restriction introduction was a transparent ploy to increase revenue and nothing more.
     
  24. Joe Paxton

    Joe Paxton Established Member

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    Can it not be seen as a (very) blunt tool to try and price discretionary travellers off very overcrowded peak services?
     
  25. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I was simply countering your point that Railcards were not valid during the evening peak, which is false - all of them are.
     
  26. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    It could be, but since they'd reportedly given Northern cities the choice of having car parking charges increased or evening peak fares introduced, the motivation was clearly to increase revenue.

    Well, railcards are there to increase travel at off-peak times. The fact that they choose not to restrict them during the evening peak suggests that they are not a problem when it comes to evening peak crowding.
     
  27. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    I'll be buying one. My 16-25 expired a few months ago and I've got some Caledonian Sleeper trips planned for which I want the discount rate for First Class.

    As an aside, anyone from that age group who really wanted one before could have had one after the initial launch fiasco - by calling up the helpline the following day where new railcards were being issued!

    I also hope some leeway is given to those 3000 people who became ineligible after the very public promise that the railcard would be available by the end of the year - and that this is openly advertised, rather than granted just to those with enhanced levels of initiative like those who got the railcards after the initial 10,000 were sold.
     
  28. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Increasing revenue was the motivation in either case!
     
  29. island

    island Established Member

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    I don’t think you can put photos in a .pkpass.
     
  30. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Going by tradition, a North of England railcard would consist of an old expired, faded, Network Railcard sent north.
     

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