Re-installing windows 10

[heart-of-wessex]

Hello all,

Had my new PC for 2 years now, Train Sim is getting a bit slow but probably doesn't help I've got a lot of garbage on my PC, simulators I don't use still installed, some other games I've deleted that still have some related files littered about, quite a lot of Train Sim stuff I don't need on there now, really could do with a refresh.

I used to have Win7 with a CD and key on my old machine, however this one from Novatech I had Win10 installed when it was built, so it was delivered ready to go, and therefore I have no key I'm aware of. Now I see to reinstall Win10, I've got to go to Settings, Update & Security, Recovery and then Reset this PC. Obviously I'd back up the important stuff first, but what I need to know is once I've done this, will it ask for a Windows 10 key?

Any help appreciated!

James

 

[87 027]

Hello all,

Had my new PC for 2 years now, Train Sim is getting a bit slow but probably doesn't help I've got a lot of garbage on my PC, simulators I don't use still installed, some other games I've deleted that still have some related files littered about, quite a lot of Train Sim stuff I don't need on there now, really could do with a refresh.

I used to have Win7 with a CD and key on my old machine, however this one from Novatech I had Win10 installed when it was built, so it was delivered ready to go, and therefore I have no key I'm aware of. Now I see to reinstall Win10, I've got to go to Settings, Update & Security, Recovery and then Reset this PC. Obviously I'd back up the important stuff first, but what I need to know is once I've done this, will it ask for a Windows 10 key?

Any help appreciated!

James

No, I have reinstalled Windows 10 on numerous PCs including on a laptop with a new hard disk drive after replacing a damaged one. It's always detected the digital licence and I have never had to re-enter a key.

This includes installing Windows 10 from a copy downloaded from the Microsoft website and saved onto USB. This gives an even cleaner install than the Reset my PC option but has the disadvantage you will need to reinstall device drivers

 

[Crossover]

The key is "saved" on the mainboard. You can put a new drive in, download a Windows 10 installer from the Microsoft site and crack on. The whole process for the basics is limely less than an hour. With the way Windows 10 is updated, gone are the days of having to install 100+ updates after the initial install as well

One thing to add, if you are reinstalling and don't have an SSD (Solid State Drive) now would be the time to consider upgrading to one

 

[Flying Snail]

If possible I'd always swap in a new SSD and install fresh on that, If I need to keep settings or upgrade rather than fresh install I will clone the original disk and use the clone to upgrade/install.

That way if it all goes tits up and for some reason the new install or upgrade just doesn't work properly I still have the original OS install 100% complete and it can be recovered by simply swapping back in the original HDD/SSD. Once the new install is up and running as you want it and all your settings and data are correctly installed you can then wipe and re-use the disk for storage or a future upgrade.

 

[Ediswan]

No, I have reinstalled Windows 10 on numerous PCs including on a laptop with a new hard disk drive after replacing a damaged one. It's always detected the digital licence and I have never had to re-enter a key.

This includes installing Windows 10 from a copy downloaded from the Microsoft website and saved onto USB. This gives an even cleaner install than the Reset my PC option but has the disadvantage you will need to reinstall device drivers

Same here, never been asked for a Windows 10 licence key on a re-build.

One bit of general advice if doing the full re-install. Have a copy of the network interface driver to hand before you start, or a second PC you can use to get the driver. The Microsoft media includes some network interface drivers, but not all.

 

[ainsworth74]

One thing to add, if you are reinstalling and don't have an SSD (Solid State Drive) now would be the time to consider upgrading to one

Absolutely! One of the best upgrades you can make to any machine, especially one that might be starting age a bit, is to go from HDD to SSD. Just getting one large enough for Windows and a few key programmes makes a tremendous difference but if you can get one big enough to fit games on as well it's chalk and cheese. I upgraded from HDD to SSD for games a year or so ago and one game went from having enough time to have a quick browse of social media when it was loading in part of a map for the first time to loading the map up in a the blink of an eye. It's remarkable how much difference it makes. They're also increasingly affordable. I picked up a Western Digital 1TB SSD for around £90. More than worth it considering the performance boost.

I certainly would never buy a computer without an SSD for Windows now though.

 

[najaB]

Now I see to reinstall Win10, I've got to go to Settings, Update & Security, Recovery and then Reset this PC. Obviously I'd back up the important stuff first, but what I need to know is once I've done this, will it ask for a Windows 10 key?

As others have said, no. A reset keeps the same device ID in the background so doesn't require reactivation.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Thank you guys!

Just remembered actually need to tidy up my D drive first as well, that's where Steam is installed to and has various games on there that don't need to be there anymore, it's one of 2 internal drives.

Just checked, my C drive is SDD, and the D drive is HDD

 

[Bevan Price]

Before trying a re-install, why not try a free "cleaning" utility to clear most of the junk deposited on your computer from the internet, Windows updates, etc.

ccleaner, MoO disk cleaner, Privazer (free versions of each) work quite saffely on my Windows10 computer, and get rid of several hundred Mb of junk after each Windows update

 

[87 027]

Weren't there some privacy issues with CCleaner recently? Mainly around the free version bundling other stuff in the installation and doing certain things without explicit user permissions

 

[david1212]

While resetting to ' out-of-the-box ' is one option it will be an older version of Windows 10 so you will then have let the system trawl through the updates.

Another route would be to start again from the latest, still 21H2, generic ISO.

The download links are here.

For drivers while the generic ISO will have enough to boot then the latest should get installed as part of the update process but better to download from the manufacturer site.

Activation will not be an issue as you are not changing hardware other than maybe a drive so Microsoft will recognise the PC.

The 64 bit ISO is ~5.5GB and the Install.wim file is > 4GB yet for a FAT32 partition the maximum file size is limited to 4GB. I'm not sure if it always applies but the system I was working from would not boot from a NTFS formatted USB flash drive. Hence I had to partition a 8GB USB flash drive with a 1GB partition formatted FAT32 and the remainder as second partition formatted NTFS. I put all of the unpacked ISO except the big file sources folder into the FAT32 partition then created a sources folder and copied in only boot.wim. Finally I coped all of the unpacked ISO onto the NTFS partition. The PC then booted and the install ran as expected.

So many websites either describe using Microsoft from their Windows 10 download page or are promoting a third party tool.

Here is one website that very simply describes the requirements to Create Windows 10 ( and 11 ) Install USB.

Ideally try to keep a copy of your ' out-of-the-box ' reset files - easier if a separate partition then buried within the existing installation. If you had a spare drive you could clone the complete SSD to it as a backup rather than just taking images of the partitions using e.g. Macrium Reflect.

 

[Ediswan]

I'm not sure if it always applies but given the 64 bit ISO is ~5.5GB yet a FAT32 partition is limited to 4GB I had to partition a 8GB USB flash drive with a 1GB partition formatted FAT32 and the remainder as second partition formatted NTFS. I then put all of the unpacked ISO except the big file Install.wim into the FAT32 partition plus all of the unpacked ISO onto the second partition.

Last time I used the Microsoft 'Media Creation Tool', which was about a year ago, it did all the partition creation and file copying automatically.

 

[ainsworth74]

Must admit I thought FAT32 was basically out of use and NTFS ruled the roost!

 

[Ediswan]

Must admit I thought FAT32 was basically out of use and NTFS ruled the roost!

USB sticks are usually sold formatted as FAT32 as this is compatible with the vast majority of devices.

 

[ainsworth74]

USB sticks are usually sold formatted as FAT32 as this is compatible with the vast majority of devices.

Ah fair enough! I don't actually use them that often so haven't had cause to check in a while!

 

[najaB]

Must admit I thought FAT32 was basically out of use and NTFS ruled the roost!

USB sticks are usually sold formatted as FAT32 as this is compatible with the vast majority of devices.

Mostly because FAT32 is essentially public-domain at this point where NTFS is still protected by patent. This has been a issue recently with the Linux NTFS kernel driver:

Love it or hate it, Linux users in a Windows world must deal with Microsoft's New Technology File System (NTFS). This has always been a pain in the rump. Even after Microsoft finally gave up on its anti-Linux rhetoric and released its patents to the open-source community and expressively opened up its exFAT patents, we still couldn't get into NTFS.

How Windows NTFS finally made it into Linux

Microsoft's New Technology File System has been with us for decades and at long, long last it's going to be fully supported for penguins

www.theregister.com

There are doubts about the future of the new read-write NTFS driver in the Linux kernel, because its author is not maintaining the code, or even answering his email, leaving the code orphaned, says a would-be helper.
It took a long time and a lot of work to get Paragon Software's NTFS3 driver merged into the Linux kernel. It finally happened in kernel release 5.15 on the 31st October 2021. It has received no maintenance since.

Linux kernel NTFS driver author goes silent

Concerns for Paragon CEO, and head kernel boss Torvalds suggests seeking maintainers

www.theregister.com

 

[Bletchleyite]

As others have said, no. A reset keeps the same device ID in the background so doesn't require reactivation.

MS keeps a calculated "hash" of a number of system details, including the CPU serial number but also stuff like RAM size, HD size etc. If enough of it changes you'll need to reactivate, but you have to change quite a lot. It's almost like the way cars might have to have a Q registration if lots changes.

 

[Crossover]

While resetting to ' out-of-the-box ' is one option it will be an older version of Windows 10 so you will then have let the system trawl through the updates.

The updates on Windows 10/11 are cumulative. There will be updates but it still won't be as onerous as the likes of Windows 7 was

I'm not sure if it always applies but given the 64 bit ISO is ~5.5GB yet a FAT32 partition is limited to 4GB I had to partition a 8GB USB flash drive with a 1GB partition formatted FAT32 and the remainder as second partition formatted NTFS. I then put all of the unpacked ISO except the big file Install.wim into the FAT32 partition plus all of the unpacked ISO onto the second partition.

Last time I used the Microsoft 'Media Creation Tool', which was about a year ago, it did all the partition creation and file copying automatically.

That's one option. Otherwise, use Rufus - it makes creating bootable USB's a cinch!

FAT32 partition is limited to 4GB

Sorry, but that is nonsense (screenshot taken from one of my installer memory sticks just now)!

 

[najaB]

Sorry, but that is nonsense (screenshot taken from one of my installer memory sticks just now)!

I suspect that @david1212 was thinking of FAT16.

 

[Crossover]

I suspect that @david1212 was thinking of FAT16.

Possibly. They may also be referring to the maximum *file size"

Still, the ISO doesn't go onto the drive as it is, but gets 'unpacked', so it is still a moot point

 

[yorkie]

Later versions of FAT16 supported up to 4GB; FAT32 individual file sizes cannot be more than 4GB so either or both of these could have been the cause of the confusion.

 

[D365]

I certainly would never buy a computer without an SSD for Windows now though.

Indeed. Modern OSs are not designed to be booted from a spinning hard drive.

That's one option. Otherwise, use Rufus - it makes creating bootable USB's a cinch!

Rufus is a good shout. A bootable flash drive is how I do my Win10 installs.

 

[najaB]

Indeed. Modern OSs are not designed to be booted from a spinning hard drive.

I wouldn't go that far - the OS, after all, doesn't know or care what the underlying storage media is - it's the job of firmware to hide those details. But yes, a SSD is nearly always the better option.

 

[londonbridge]

Weren't there some privacy issues with CCleaner recently? Mainly around the free version bundling other stuff in the installation and doing certain things without explicit user permissions

Computeractive magazine recommends dumping CCleaner and using bleachbit instead.

 

[dgl]

I wouldn't go that far - the OS, after all, doesn't know or care what the underlying storage media is - it's the job of firmware to hide those details. But yes, a SSD is nearly always the better option.

As I understand Windows 10, at least, is designed for SSD's and it makes a sizeable boost in performance when switching.
Switching my mums laptop from a 500gb? 5200rpm SATA spinning disc to an NVMe SSD took it from painfully slow on bootup to bootups in ~20 seconds, and it's been like that from the factory.

 

[david1212]

Later versions of FAT16 supported up to 4GB; FAT32 individual file sizes cannot be more than 4GB so either or both of these could have been the cause of the confusion.

Sorry for the confusion. The limitation was the individual 4GB file size rather than total maximum size of a FAT32 partition.

Regardless the key point here was the need to partition the USB flash drive to allow both booting from the USB and Windows 10 installation.

I have edited my post.

Indeed. Modern OSs are not designed to be booted from a spinning hard drive.

I wouldn't go that far - the OS, after all, doesn't know or care what the underlying storage media is - it's the job of firmware to hide those details. But yes, a SSD is nearly always the better option.

I have had no issues with Windows 10 on a spinning HDD but a SSD is much faster. A hybrid HDD is significantly faster too.

Fast boot speeds things up but can occasionally cause problems and prevent a Windows repair working. Safer if slower to disable it. I have found it must be disabled for dual boot e.g. Windows & Linux.

I've not seen Windows 11 yet never mind tried to install.

 

[yorkie]

I've not seen Windows 11 yet never mind tried to install.

I updated on one of my devices but wish I'd stuck with Windows 10; I won't be rushing to update any others!

 

[D365]

Fast boot speeds things up but can occasionally cause problems and prevent a Windows repair working. Safer if slower to disable it. I have found it must be disabled for dual boot e.g. Windows & Linux.

Fast boot I’m not a fan of. Just causes too much complication, as you have described.

I've not seen Windows 11 yet never mind tried to install.

Likewise. From what I’ve heard, best to keep it that way.

 

[adc82140]

I updated on one of my devices but wish I'd stuck with Windows 10; I won't be rushing to update any others!

According to the update assistant neither my PC nor laptop will run Windows 11. Something to do with the bios lacking a Trusted Platform Module. My PC dates from 2009 and laptop from 2012, so I'll be sticking to Windows 10 till the bitter end. Indeed I just did a cold reinstall of Windows 10 on my laptop this week, and it's running as fast as the day it was bought.

 

[najaB]

According to the update assistant neither my PC nor laptop will run Windows 11. Something to do with the bios lacking a Trusted Platform Module. My PC dates from 2009 and laptop from 2012, so I'll be sticking to Windows 10 till the bitter end. Indeed I just did a cold reinstall of Windows 10 on my laptop this week, and it's running as fast as the day it was bought.

Officially, Windows 11 requires a TPM module but there are a couple of ways around that requirement for people who do want to use it. I suppose I really get around to putting it on a machine as it's inevitable that our customers will be dealing with it out in the wild.