Re-Opening Curves to Create New Travel Opportunities

[tbtc]

I hate to put this idea down, I would love to see More trains on my local line, Unfortunately I can see many problems

At the risk of sounding very patronising, its refreshing to see someone not arguing for their local line to be the focus of 99% of all investment over the next decade

 

[caliwag]

There was a curve (called Newark curve< M+GN joint) which swung to the South just East of castle station through all the industrial buildings joining ECML at Newark Joint Curve junction midway between Northgate and the flat crossing. It served several industrial sidings and Cow lane wharf so may well have been freight only.
There is a superb series of reprints of official maps called 'Midland Railway System Diagrams (The Distance Diagrams)'...They were reproduced by a Peter Kay. They are beautifully drawn with named sidings, distances, rivers, tunnels, etc...far better than Quail which is saying something. The ISBN is 1 899890 17 3

I should have made it more clear (if anyone is interested!) that this loop swung round and joined the Northbound ECML which means that it was possible in earlier times. There have been sheds built on the formation (though it can just be made out by the curve of one of the warehouses), but nothing which could not be moved if need be.

 

[Waverley125]

the Horbury curve would be fantastic, as has been saidd it would open up the northern MML to serve Huddersfield, Halifax & Bradford-although re-opening Thornhill-Low Moor would be even more effective in serving Bradford (giving the Spen towns a service and avoiding the need to reach Bradford via Brighouse)

The Bowling curve would also be a great addition, removing the need for trains from Leeds to Caldervale to reverse at Bradford Interchange, and allowing them to pass through southeast Bradford instead (where a station could be built at Wakefield Road). Particularly valuable if done in conjunction with Bradford Crossrail, which would send all Bradford-Caldverale services up into Airedale & Wharfedale instead.

 

[ushawk]

Been said on here a lot, so am surprised it hasnt been mentioned yet - the Arundel Curve, which would connect the Arun Valley and Coastway West (to/from Brighton).

Would allow a direct Horsham - Brighton service, possibility of an additional London - Brighton service via Sutton and Horsham and it would be useful for diversions if the BML had a closure (removes the need for a reversal at Littlehampton).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Burscough would be an obvious one. I know there was a proposal to reinstate the Curves under Merseyrail, but I don't know what happened to it.

Yes in my deepest dreams these curves at Burscough junction along with electrification to Southport/Preston/Wigan etc (25KV AC OHL) all with a brand new set of dual voltage units and replacing all the Merseyrail 3rd rail EMUs. Obviously it would make sense to go pants down/pants up there but the journey possibilities opened up would be wonderful - ahhrrr well I can dream - (wet dream hence the play on words with pants up/down!)

 

[MarkyT]

A southern curve from Stonehouse onto the cross country line would allow for a Swindon-Bristol local via Stroud (which no longer has a public transport connexion to the capital of the West) as well as providing a (ahem, another) diversionary route in the event of line problems between Swindon and Bristol.

Nice service idea, but there's not enough room between the converging routes, for a 'simple chord' solution to fit at acceptable curve radius. A longer route south of Stonehouse might be possible but would be very difficult and expensive, there being little open space between Ebley and Stonehouse. A more practical alternative might be a long wide lefthand curve diverging from the Stroud line just north of Stonehouse and passing over the Midland route before sweeping round approx 180 degress to the west and south of the Dairy Crest trading estate, then turning to the right and joining the Midland route near the sewage treatment works. A new Parkway station could be incorporated on the connector where it crosses the A419, near the trading estate and not far from the M5 junction.

 

[LexyBoy]

Nice service idea, but there's not enough room between the converging routes, for a 'simple chord' solution to fit at acceptable curve radius. A longer route south of Stonehouse might be possible but would be very difficult and expensive, there being little open space between Ebley and Stonehouse. A more practical alternative might be a long wide lefthand curve diverging from the Stroud line just north of Stonehouse and passing over the Midland route before sweeping round approx 180 degress to the west and south of the Dairy Crest trading estate, then turning to the right and joining the Midland route near the sewage treatment works. A new Parkway station could be incorporated on the connector where it crosses the A419, near the trading estate and not far from the M5 junction.

You're right of course - I knew it was too built up to be realistic but looking at a map it's definitely not possible to do easily. Shame it wasn't done before someone built those pesky houses! I think your suggestion would be too expensive - even a simple chord would be a bit of a pipe dream for what is a relatively rural area.

Such a service could still run via Gloucester - stick a few stations in at Chalford, Tuffley, and maybe somewhere near Barton St in Gloster and you've got quite a nice local service... (going OT somewhat though).

 

[lancastrian]

Yes in my deepest dreams these curves at Burscough junction along with electrification to Southport/Preston/Wigan etc (25KV AC OHL) all with a brand new set of dual voltage units and replacing all the Merseyrail 3rd rail EMUs. Obviously it would make sense to go pants down/pants up there but the journey possibilities opened up would be wonderful - ahhrrr well I can dream - (wet dream hence the play on words with pants up/down!)

Well I am not to sure about the wet dream part, but I also have been a long time supporter of the reopening of the Burscough Curves, along with the third rail electrification of the Kirkby to Wigan Wallgate line, and the Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge. The north curve would be very beneficial to a new Preston to Southport service. Passengers from Preston to Liverpool could still change at Burscough Bridge, or even the through service via Wigan & St. Helens.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

along with the third rail electrification of the Kirkby to Wigan Wallgate line, and the Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge. The north curve would be very beneficial to a new Preston to Southport service. Passengers from Preston to Liverpool could still change at Burscough Bridge, or even the through service via Wigan & St. Helens.

I would still do it 25KV AC OH though - even those lines IMHO

 

[SSL1990]

The Bescot Curve in Walsall.

 

[The Planner]

Bit pointless unless you open what it is going to join to, which is a years away, if at all.

 

[Wyvern]

A north facing curve at Stenson off the Sheet Stores to Stenson line.

This would save blocking the Birmingham line when trains are diverted off the Spondon line while the driver canges ends.

It could provide an airport service to a reopened Castle Donington station and for the race track.

There could be an alternative Derby to Nottingham service reversing at East Midlands Parkway.

Aston on Trent could reopen plus new stations at Sinfin and Heatherton Village to cater for the new housing that extends across the south of Derby.

The Nottingham to Cardiff could go that way to avoid reversing at Derby and to provide extra airport services.

 

[Tiny Tim]

Somehow I'm still surprised at the short-sightedness that led to these curves being closed. Many line closures were, with hindsight, a mistake, but the abandonment of these comparatively cheap-to-maintain facilities seems beyond reason. For a minimal saving services were consigned to existing routes. Surely someone could see that leaving a little flexibility for the future was desirable?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Somehow I'm still surprised at the short-sightedness that led to these curves being closed. Many line closures were, with hindsight, a mistake, but the abandonment of these comparatively cheap-to-maintain facilities seems beyond reason. For a minimal saving services were consigned to existing routes. Surely someone could see that leaving a little flexibility for the future was desirable?

Sadly, that was never a consideration. The railway was losing business (including it's big customers like King Coal and the "Mails") so the axe fell based on economic grounds. If you think about it, a half-mile twin-track chord line has four signals and two double junctions associated with it - it is therefore a better economic outcome to close the chord than half a mile of twin-track plain line route.

When Beeching was tasked, the future was probably Serpell option 'B', and that was virtually no future at all.

 

[LE Greys]

Sadly, that was never a consideration. The railway was losing business (including it's big customers like King Coal and the "Mails") so the axe fell based on economic grounds. If you think about it, a half-mile twin-track chord line has four signals and two double junctions associated with it - it is therefore a better economic outcome to close the chord than half a mile of twin-track plain line route.

When Beeching was tasked, the future was probably Serpell option 'B', and that was virtually no future at all.

And to be fair, 'rationalisation' did keep some lines open. Would Worcester still have a direct service to London had the Cotswold Line not gone down to single-track? The same applies to Salisbury-Exeter. With curves, the occasional reversal is far easier now than it was in steam days, when a turntable would often be required to avoid tender-first working, even worse if you include relocating a brake van.

 

[hammerwood]

I would suggest the Crowhurst spur from the East Grinstead line to the Redhill-Tonbridge line as a re-opening.

I would go further and suggest a spur from the up East Grinstead line (south of Crowhurst) onto the Redhill line or even build an interchange station where the two lines cross

 

[route:oxford]

Difficult to tell from Google Earth, but when travelling from Larbert to Glasgow, there appears to be a former trackbed from the mainline to the Cumbernauld route.

http://goo.gl/maps/nVfF

If it ever existed, would re-opening it permit Stirling-Motherwell services without conflict?

 

[Cheshire Rover]

My MP is a keen supporter of the Halton Curve and keeps me informed of any news. He recently received a letter from David Parr, chief executive of Halton Council. It reads as follows.

"Thank you for your letter of 30th April 2012 requesting an update on the councils perspective of the Halton Curve Project. The main promoter of the scheme is Merseytravel. The council continues to support the proposal and will work together with all the relevant agencies to identify potential funding for the infrastructure works. I understand that Merseytravel are looking at the potential for a Regional Growth Fund bid to support the project. This would be based upon the potential freight opportunities if the project was delivered."

An interesting approach!

 

[L&Y Robert]

Between Oxford and Kidlington lies the trackbed of a former link between the Cotswold Line and the Oxford-Bicester Line. With Chiltern's initiative on an Oxford-Marylebone service, and the East-West " 'varsity Line" restoration (if ever), and bearing in mind the on-going upgrade of the Cotswold Line, we could postulate a longer cross-country E-W girdle missing out Oxford, and, for example, Chiltern doing Marylebone to Worcester.

 

[Eagle]

Between Oxford and Kidlington lies the trackbed of a former link between the Cotswold Line and the Oxford-Bicester Line. With Chiltern's initiative on an Oxford-Marylebone service, and the East-West " 'varsity Line" restoration (if ever), and bearing in mind the on-going upgrade of the Cotswold Line, we could postulate a longer cross-country E-W girdle missing out Oxford, and, for example, Chiltern doing Marylebone to Worcester.

Wouldn't be much point in that; why build an expensive curve to avoid a station that you can easily reverse at and has large passenger numbers? If Chiltern did decide to run to the Cotswolds there's no way they'd consider skipping Oxford.

 

[Class172]

Wouldn't be much point in that; why build an expensive curve to avoid a station that you can easily reverse at and has large passenger numbers? If Chiltern did decide to run to the Cotswolds there's no way they'd consider skipping Oxford.

...and if Chiltern decided to run to Worcester then they'd services from Birmingham/Kiddy.

 

[The Planner]

Between Oxford and Kidlington lies the trackbed of a former link between the Cotswold Line and the Oxford-Bicester Line. With Chiltern's initiative on an Oxford-Marylebone service, and the East-West " 'varsity Line" restoration (if ever), and bearing in mind the on-going upgrade of the Cotswold Line, we could postulate a longer cross-country E-W girdle missing out Oxford, and, for example, Chiltern doing Marylebone to Worcester.

Would need some rather expensive re-alignment of the A4260 and A34 at Peartree for what would be an very infrequently used piece of track.

 

[L&Y Robert]

OK, OK - just a thought. And it does qualify for inclusion in the thread, useful or not. Somebody once thought it worth building, though. And Oxford is about a mile away, and busy.

 

[Eagle]

Somebody once thought it worth building, though. And Oxford is about a mile away, and busy.

Might be useful for freight, however (once the EWR is built, and finished the redoubling in the Cotswolds, it's quite a nifty freight route).

 

[LE Greys]

Might be useful for freight, however (once the EWR is built, and finished the redoubling in the Cotswolds, it's quite a nifty freight route).

That's true, a neat way of reducing pressure on Reading, the WCML and the NLL.

 

[cle]

I can't really see the paths being available for a London - Worcester via Bicester service, and as everyone mentioned, Oxford is what kept that line open probably.

I wonder if journey times would be that different either, as those trains are Pad-Oxford fasts usually.

Freight use might be interesting I guess, for the old landfill and also E/W.

 

[GarethGwill]

How about the curve to the east of Maindee Depot, east of Newport (South Wales) station? I read somewhere the suggestion that when the GWML franchise is let next year, the holders should run a direct Abergavenny - Paddington service, calling at Pontypool & New Inn, Cwmbrân, Severn Tunnel Junction and (I think) Filton Abbey Wood? Then Paddington. AGV - PAD in the morning and PAD - AGV in the evening. You could even run Hereford - Paddington, although FGW already run a service via Worcester. Obviously depends upon the pathing availability (I don't work in the rail industry so I don't know what is involved in running an extra service).

Gareth

 

[Waverley125]

Surely the best way of serving Worcester would be Hereford-Paddington via Oxford and Oxford-Hereford all stops.

 

[cle]

How about the curve to the east of Maindee Depot, east of Newport (South Wales) station? I read somewhere the suggestion that when the GWML franchise is let next year, the holders should run a direct Abergavenny - Paddington service, calling at Pontypool & New Inn, Cwmbrân, Severn Tunnel Junction and (I think) Filton Abbey Wood? Then Paddington. AGV - PAD in the morning and PAD - AGV in the evening. You could even run Hereford - Paddington, although FGW already run a service via Worcester. Obviously depends upon the pathing availability (I don't work in the rail industry so I don't know what is involved in running an extra service).

Gareth

Is there any demand? Would it be quicker from Hereford - easier to start from there too.

You'd probably need to stop at Bristol Parkway as insurance, and then fast - running just before another service from Newport.

 

[tbtc]

How would a Hereford/Worcester - Cheltenham - Swindon - Reading - London service compare timewise against the current route via Oxford?

Since the Worcester - Oxford line isn't being wired (as part of the current GWML plans) I wondered whether extending the Cheltenham HSTs might be more appealing than running diesels through Oxford (after spending all that money electrifying it)?

Oh, wait, this is going to turn into a bi-mode conversation isn't it? Sorry.