Reading Buses and Thames Valley

[TheGrandWazoo]

But most of Courtney's routes are council contracts

Not certain what you mean?

If it's that the CMA wouldn't be interested, well the lack of competition in tenders will be an issue.

If it's that First gave up in Maidenhead, there's a number of routes that they surrendered (didn't meet the desired returns) that were then put out to tender. That ultimately led to Courtney's growth and when they took the Bracknell tenders, that was it for First's Bracknell depot.

With the exception of Wycombe, it is nearly the reunification of the original Thames Valley Traction (though I confess, I can't recall when Bracknell depot opened)

 

[Non Multi]

IIRC Empress Road pulled First out of Bracknell, largely due to losing all their Bracknell Forest contracts to Courtney during their bus war. Bracknell's contracts have in the last decade have transferred from First to Thames Travel (later purchased by Go Ahead who pulled out), back to First or Courtney, then Courtney won First's contracts.

 

[Non Multi]

Don't forget that First operate the Reading to Heathrow Rail Air coach service from Reading Transports depot, all the coaches are based in Reading and I believe are serviced by RT or at least by arrangement with them, so First and Reading Transport have a commercial relationship.
I have always suspected (but cannot prove) that the Rail Air service is the main profit driver in the First - Beeline(Slough) company.

Surely it's fairly easy to work out which are the really profitable routes or corridors for First in Slough - the ones with the highest number of buses per hour.

 

[Samuel88]

I've always found Reading buses to be a very reliable operator with frequent buses, I just wonder if they're expanding too quickly? Also what do the taxpayers of Reading think of running buses so far outside of the Borough boundary?

 

[Robertj21a]

I've always found Reading buses to be a very reliable operator with frequent buses, I just wonder if they're expanding too quickly? Also what do the taxpayers of Reading think of running buses so far outside of the Borough boundary?

Surely, Reading is an arms-length company, not run by the council ?
.

 

[carlberry]

Surely it's fairly easy to work out which are the really profitable routes or corridors for First in Slough - the ones with the highest number of buses per hour.

No, that just gives you the ones with the highest direct costs. The air link coach dosent have to operate very often but as long as it keeps it's frequency just high enough and the fare just low enough to stop people using taxis it should be very profitable. It's likely to be way ahead of any local bus route most of which really depend on being able to fill as much peak space as possible with paying passengers.

 

[cactustwirly]

I reckon the most profitable route is the 7 series from Slough to Heathrow!

 

[Surreyman]

Worth remembering that when the full Greater London LEZ comes in (26/10/2020) Routes crossing the GLC boundary (Colnbrook/Heathrow & Uxbridge) will need to have vehicles which are Euro 6 compliant, Unless someone knows otherwise, as far as I am aware, First - Beelines Volvo Hybrids used on the Heathrow routes are only Euro 5, so will need upgrading/replacing.
Courtney has a very modern fleet, the oldest vehicle seems to be an '09 reg. At least 13 of the 50 odd fleet are Euro 6, possibly more.
I assume that much of the fleet may be leased?
As well as the main (ex First) depot in Bracknell (VOSA - 40) and the Workshop/Depot/Head Office in Finchampstead (VOSA - 16) the company appears to have outstations in: -
1. Milton Park - Abingdon (VOSA - 3 vehicles)
2. Chineham Park - Basingstoke. (VOSA -2 vehicles)
3. Jays Close - Basingstoke. (VOSA - 1 vehicle)
4. Foundation Park - Maidenhead. (VOSA - 2 vehicles)
5. Heights - Brooklands - Weybridge. (unknown)
6. Laverstoke. (VOSA - 1 vehicle)
Until a few weeks ago, they had an outstation at Bedfont Lakes (contract since lost).

 

[Non Multi]

I reckon the most profitable route is the 7 series from Slough to Heathrow!

The '7 series' (75-76-77-78) route numbers were binned in the network changes a few years back. They were very slow to remove the vinyls though, some of the Volvo Hybrids still have the branding! It's now the Slough-Heathrow leg of current routes 7, 8 & 9.

 

[Non Multi]

Worth remembering that when the full Greater London LEZ comes in (26/10/2020) Routes crossing the GLC boundary (Colnbrook/Heathrow & Uxbridge) will need to have vehicles which are Euro 6 compliant, Unless someone knows otherwise, as far as I am aware, First - Beelines Volvo Hybrids used on the Heathrow routes are only Euro 5, so will need upgrading/replacing.
Courtney has a very modern fleet, the oldest vehicle seems to be an '09 reg. At least 13 of the 50 odd fleet are Euro 6, possibly more.
I assume that much of the fleet may be leased?
...

You're correct in that assumption, I'm sure I've read before that the bus leasing model works for them.

Beeline also operate a number of older Citaros on their routes that cross the Greater London LEZ boundary.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The '7 series' (75-76-77-78) route numbers were binned in the network changes a few years back. They were very slow to remove the vinyls though, some of the Volvo Hybrids still have the branding! It's now the Slough-Heathrow leg of current routes 7, 8 & 9.

They have started refurbishing those Volvos, though? Don't know if it's just cosmetic though https://www.flickr.com/photos/93036...1D-Kaix36-LoEPBr-2ezY58d-J6F8hN-ZZse3f-Jja7N6

 

[goldisgood]

They have started refurbishing those Volvos, though? Don't know if it's just cosmetic though https://www.flickr.com/photos/93036...1D-Kaix36-LoEPBr-2ezY58d-J6F8hN-ZZse3f-Jja7N6

Interiors too with moquette and USB charging AFAIK

 

[busken]

I've always found Reading buses to be a very reliable operator with frequent buses, I just wonder if they're expanding too quickly? Also what do the taxpayers of Reading think of running buses so far outside of the Borough boundary?

Surely as Reading buses makes a profit, it benefits the tax payers of Reading, rather than costing them money.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I've always found Reading buses to be a very reliable operator with frequent buses, I just wonder if they're expanding too quickly? Also what do the taxpayers of Reading think of running buses so far outside of the Borough boundary?

As a Reading Borough resident and member of the governing party on the council(my mother's a RBC taxpayer) it is generally a great idea, although it would be great if they didn't cut back on Caversham/North of the Thames service like the 25 and cross-subsidised from other services like the 17. Having an every 2 hour service on Sundays is really annoying. I wish they'd actually take over the 800/850 Reading to High Wycombe Arriva service to kick them out of the Reading area or at least take over the Reading to Henley portion of the 800 and 850 and loop them,so Henley College students and other Reading-Henley don't have to endure any longer the outlying route status that Arriva gives the 800/850 -perennially late buses,expensive fares, clapped out buses,buses that are too big for some of the route. It needs to be taken over and operated by smaller buses at a higher frequency. Half-hourly isn't good enough. Anyway,rant over. I want to know if this will mean that my boost day network £4 fare

 

[317 forever]

I believe Reading Buses are effectively the 4th operator linking Bracknell and Camberley in recent years - after Courtney, Stagecoach and First.

 

[Wirewiper]

Stagecoach registered the 94 after First withdrew from Bracknell, competing with Courtney Buses who increased their 194 to half-hourly from the same time. Stagecoach withdrew after five months.

Strictly speaking the 194 is still operated by Courtney Buses, which is now owned by Reading Transport Ltd.

 

[Mwanesh]

As a Reading Borough resident and member of the governing party on the council(my mother's a RBC taxpayer) it is generally a great idea, although it would be great if they didn't cut back on Caversham/North of the Thames service like the 25 and cross-subsidised from other services like the 17. Having an every 2 hour service on Sundays is really annoying. I wish they'd actually take over the 800/850 Reading to High Wycombe Arriva service to kick them out of the Reading area or at least take over the Reading to Henley portion of the 800 and 850 and loop them,so Henley College students and other Reading-Henley don't have to endure any longer the outlying route status that Arriva gives the 800/850 -perennially late buses,expensive fares, clapped out buses,buses that are too big for some of the route. It needs to be taken over and operated by smaller buses at a higher frequency. Half-hourly isn't good enough. Anyway,rant over. I want to know if this will mean that my boost day network £4 fare

You will find Reading buses does not go into competition.It works well with other operators.

 

[carlberry]

You will find Reading buses does not go into competition.It works well with other operators.

I suspect that's not how operators like Reading Mainline would view it!

 

[Hophead]

I suspect that's not how operators like Reading Mainline would view it!

But was it not Reading Mainline that went into competition and not vice versa? Obviously, the company is going to fight its corner. Not that I could tell you much about bus operations in Reading in the 1990s (or whenever it may have been).

 

[Palatine]

As others have posted on older threads Bill Courtney-Smith is getting on a bit, so selling up is not really a surprise. What I was expecting though was a sale to a major bus group or another independent.

Pleased to see that Bill Courtney-Smith had done so well for himself. I remember Bill when he first started his coaches in the late 1970's when he was a client of the accountants I worked for.

 

[Goldfish62]

Surely as Reading buses makes a profit, it benefits the tax payers of Reading, rather than costing them money.

Barely. The last set of accounts (Y/E Sept 2017) show a feeble 0.6% profit before tax. Previous year was 2.6%. The 2017/18 accounts should be published any time now. I wouldn't be surprised if it shows a loss. If so the council will undoubtedly start asking whether it would be better to sell it off.

 

[nesw]

Companies House indicates that the next set of accounts are due by 30 June 2019, so a little while yet.

 

[busken]

Barely. The last set of accounts (Y/E Sept 2017) show a feeble 0.6% profit before tax. Previous year was 2.6%. The 2017/18 accounts should be published any time now. I wouldn't be surprised if it shows a loss. If so the council will undoubtedly start asking whether it would be better to sell it off.

Unlikely. Reading council think highly of their bus service, and are also very keen on the use of public transport in the town.

 

[Wirewiper]

Barely. The last set of accounts (Y/E Sept 2017) show a feeble 0.6% profit before tax. Previous year was 2.6%. The 2017/18 accounts should be published any time now. I wouldn't be surprised if it shows a loss. If so the council will undoubtedly start asking whether it would be better to sell it off.

Reading Buses did make cutbacks to their financially-under-performing Caversham routes during 2018 and 2019.

 

[Robertj21a]

Unlikely. Reading council think highly of their bus service, and are also very keen on the use of public transport in the town.

True, but the finances are certainly not looking as rosy as they used to. Some further trimming might be necessary.

 

[goldisgood]

There have been a few little cuts - the 26 was reduced from every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes and the 33/33A along Tilehurst Road were changed to just the 33 running every 15 minutes to Turnham's Farm whereas before there was the 33 every 20 minutes to Turnham's Farm and the 33a every 20 minutes running short services to Tilehurst.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Following the takeover of Courtney Buses by Reading Buses earlier this year, the first stage in replacing the Courtney brand with the Thames Valley one takes place at the beginning of November, with a new livery and the transfer of routes 2, 10/11 and 15 in the Slough/Windsor area.

https://handsbusblog.wordpress.com/2019/09/27/end-of-the-road-for-courtney-in-slough/

 

[AlastairFraser]

Reading Buses did make cutbacks to their financially-under-performing Caversham routes during 2018 and 2019.

They were financially under-performing because they did not structure the routes properly. The 800/X80 runs 3 buses along the Henley Road to High Wycombe/Oxford via Henley,an increase of 2 buses per hour quite recently. It proves the demand is there,just the routes of their buses in Caversham aren't ideal. They need to purchase either the 800 or the X80 route off Go-Ahead/Arriva,then they can run a better,more frequent,more financially stable operation in Caversham and serving Henley and High Wycombe plus all the places like Marlow inbetween would be quite lucrative for them with new buses and reasonable fares. Arriva is being sold anyway as we know and it would be an inconvenient route for any new operator to operate especially based in High Wycombe.

 

[AlastairFraser]

You will find Reading buses does not go into competition.It works well with other operators.

Tell that to Courtney,which they just bought and which competes with First Berkshire in the Slough area and Thames Valley Buses which they started up as a direct subsidiary of the main Reading Buses operation.

 

[Goldfish62]

Tell that to Courtney,which they just bought and which competes with First Berkshire in the Slough area and Thames Valley Buses which they started up as a direct subsidiary of the main Reading Buses operation.

Courtney was up for sale anyway and RB bought it to protect its patch from a potentially aggressive competitor buying it instead.