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Reading orders Optare MetroDeckers

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fgwrich

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I would think that even if that had not occurred, any MD/CEO in the position at this time would find the fact that:

1 - These vehicles were ordered over 2 years ago, and even allowing for a COVID shutdown at Optare, there was no sign of them being placed into a build queue
2 - Spare fleet being available that is of reasonable age and to a fairly standard spec for Reading makes much more sense in the current circumstances.
3 - Financially speaking, if you can get out of the order and maintain the cash in your business, that makes much more sense at this time as well.

They also allude to "mixed reviews" with regards the demonstrator, which they've had for long enough to be able to be certain about them. Optare build quality can be mixed at best.

It makes sense from Reading's view to get out of a financial commitment for a brand new, untested product at the moment.



You're right - it doesn't say much for Optare that they couldn't get their act together to get these built. I appreciate they've just started to deliver the York fleet, but even then, those are untested until they've done a few months of "real" service.

It does make you wonder for UK manufacturing at the moment - ADL probably best placed to survive (even with large job cuts), but Optare & Wrights didn't/don't have the same order volume - and it's not like anyone is going to be placing orders in the near and probably distant future.

I can see follow up order with ADL for a few more E400s after all of this - Although I'm surprised they didn't chose them from the start. As for Wrightbus, they will have a fair bit of catching up to do for any orders / refurbishments / parts supplying before all of the chaos, although they too will need to start convincing the Operators to go with them before they continue to suffer too.

That said, I've just come back from a few interesting days north of the Border and several days of experiencing Lothian again. The older Wrightbuses unsurprisingly holding up better than the newer ones, though a lot of rattles coming through on some of those new Alexander Dennis's supposedly rattle proof E400 MMCs too.
 
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AB93

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I can see follow up order with ADL for a few more E400s after all of this

I'm not so sure of that - the recent announcement didn't paint a pretty picture for any part of the business:

Reading Buses cost-cutting measures include:
  • Up to 33 positions in the company at risk – although no driver redundancies are currently expected.
  • A freeze on new recruitment, including apprenticeships.
  • **A freeze on investment in new vehicles.**
  • New ways of working for existing staff

That and the other major factor - will the 702 even survive Covid and the complete destruction of the London commuter market?

It can only be marginal at best and even when Reading took it on, it didn't take long before they re-jig things away from that.
Some of the resources were diverted instead to serve Heathrow - of course the other market that's having a massive downturn.
 

MotCO

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They did make it into a build queue - they were part complete and in build back in November 2019!

So why were they not completed? There have been EV versions built, and I would have thought that the diesel version would have been more straight-forward since it was using 'old' technology. Unless Optare decided to ignore the diesel versions and chase Electric orders only, or the hiatus at Wrightbus caused serious delays in the building of diesel versions.
 

jammy36

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So why were they not completed? There have been EV versions built, and I would have thought that the diesel version would have been more straight-forward since it was using 'old' technology. Unless Optare decided to ignore the diesel versions and chase Electric orders only, or the hiatus at Wrightbus caused serious delays in the building of diesel versions.

I believe the issue was around the fact that Reading had specified three-point seatbelts. Optare hadn't pre-certified the MetroDecker for seatbelt fitting (presumably to save cost) and I had heard there was an issue with the MetroDecker body structure and mounting points that required some re-engineering as unfathomably Optare hadn't designed the MetroDecker with seatbelts in mind.

I wonder what will happen to these part completed vehicles...?
 

tramboy

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I wonder what will happen to these part completed vehicles...?

The question is around how far completed they are - I know the pictures suggest there was a chassis frame and some suspension components, but not much sign of anything else. It may be that Optare can recycle the chassis into an electric chassis for York - that ability to change major units in their products (relatively easily) was something that used to be a selling feature, which you would hope they may have innovated around.
 

jammy36

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The question is around how far completed they are - I know the pictures suggest there was a chassis frame and some suspension components, but not much sign of anything else. It may be that Optare can recycle the chassis into an electric chassis for York - that ability to change major units in their products (relatively easily) was something that used to be a selling feature, which you would hope they may have innovated around.

At least one looks to have advanced well beyond that point in this tweet from John Bickerton (formerly at Reading Buses):

 

tramboy

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At least one looks to have advanced well beyond that point in this tweet from John Bickerton (formerly at Reading Buses):


There may be an opportunity for someone to pick up a new vehicle on the cheap then if, at least one, was reasonably far along. That's already happened with a Reading-spec vehicle from the also cancelled BCI decker order, which Ensign took themselves in the end.
 

buslad1988

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There may be an opportunity for someone to pick up a new vehicle on the cheap then if, at least one, was reasonably far along. That's already happened with a Reading-spec vehicle from the also cancelled BCI decker order, which Ensign took themselves in the end.
Ipswich Buses three Scania East Lancs Omnidekka’s were originally intended for Reading. Took them already part built to Readings internal spec. back in 2005. Maybe history will repeat.
 

MotCO

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There may be an opportunity for someone to pick up a new vehicle on the cheap then if, at least one, was reasonably far along. That's already happened with a Reading-spec vehicle from the also cancelled BCI decker order, which Ensign took themselves in the end.

Will it be a unique vehicle - are there any other diesel Metrodeckers, other than the prototypes?
 

fgwrich

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There may be an opportunity for someone to pick up a new vehicle on the cheap then if, at least one, was reasonably far along. That's already happened with a Reading-spec vehicle from the also cancelled BCI decker order, which Ensign took themselves in the end.

I'd forgotten about that thing, although perhaps judging from the basis of this video, it's just as well they didn't take them. The demo vehicle sounds, absolutely horrible.


While the interior didn't look that good either - certainly not up to that of the Reading Buses ADL vehicles.

 

Mwanesh

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Optare have proved to be incompetent. I drove the demo in 2016. Surely they shot themselves in the foot. Reading would have given them a foot into a continous order. How long does it take to finish a bus.
 

MotCO

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Optare have proved to be incompetent. I drove the demo in 2016. Surely they shot themselves in the foot. Reading would have given them a foot into a continous order. How long does it take to finish a bus.

Optare don't seem to attract as many orders as ADL or Wrightbus, and it seems that those orders they do win, they can't complete. How do they expect to gain customer support or survive if they can't build what customers have ordered? I like Optare - they have produced some stylish buses - and I want them to succeed, but they don't seem to be helping themselves.
 

Jordan Adam

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Optare don't seem to attract as many orders as ADL or Wrightbus, and it seems that those orders they do win, they can't complete. How do they expect to gain customer support or survive if they can't build what customers have ordered? I like Optare - they have produced some stylish buses - and I want them to succeed, but they don't seem to be helping themselves.

I do think part of the reason they struggle for orders is the poor delivery schedules. These are not big orders yet it's taking them years to complete them. I think the other reason is because their product range while stylish are showing their age, the Solo SR and Versa are away to turn 14 years old and haven't changed much at all, while their other products (including the Metrodecker) are all evolved from the Solo. Just compare the cab area of an Optare to pretty much any other bus on the market, moulded dashboards are a thing of the 90s while the LCD touch buttons are very unpopular with drivers!
 

Mwanesh

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2 years for 5 buses. Thats taking liberties. If it were not for the Solo they would have been history. They really need to up their game. The Plaxton Panorama was developed long after the Metrodecker was in build.
 

Jordan Adam

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2 years for 5 buses. Thats taking liberties. If it were not for the Solo they would have been history. They really need to up their game. The Plaxton Panorama was developed long after the Metrodecker was in build.

Keep in mind the prototype for the Metrodecker was launched 8 years now too, not to mention the Metrodecker is basically just an evolution of the failed Rapta! So you could argue it's been closer to 13 years. If Optare were still independent they'd be long gone.
 

busesrusuk

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I have seen a picture inside the factory showing the York Metrodeckers and the Reading buses were in the background looking substantially complete (at least 3 or 4 of them).

It seems it is unlikely that any other replacement orders will happen as it has been said that Reading have enough spare E400's off the emerald routes to cover the requirement for the 702...
 

Mikey C

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Optare deliberately chose to pull out of bodying other manufacturers chassis, but have done a shambolic job at creating an integral double decker instead, throwing away lots of work as a result - East Lancs used to be a regular supplier of bodies in London during the 2000s

London is now full of MCV bodied Volvo B5LHs
 

GusB

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I do feel that we're drifting away from the subject of Reading's Optare orders (and I fear that this thread will have a fairly short shelf-life!)
 
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