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Real life driving techniques in TSW?

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Fred57

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28 May 2020
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Newbie here, so a big hello !

I've been using TSW2020 and really enjoying trying to get it as realistic as possible, so the safety systems on (still to add DRA, will get to that next!) and trying to stick to the timetables as far as possible. One thing I'm not clear about is how trains are driven in real life - so for example on the Class 166 on GWE, as soon as the doors are closed I can just set the throttle to 7 immediately, the train will accelerate as soon as the vacuum pressure drops on the brakes, and then go (speed limits permitting) at that setting until a few hundred yards from the next station and just bung on the emergency brake to stop as quickly as possible. Now that's an extreme example. Or is it? So what do real life drivers do?

- Always start at low throttle then accelerate more as they speed up?
- Never use more than brakes 1? (or 2? or 3?)
- Is using emergency brake setting seen as bad?
- Is minimal use of power/diesel an issue? (Like with diesel bonus for HGV drivers)
- Do you leave the reverser in forward in stations or move to neutral?
- Do you leave the brake on Full or on Emergency when stopped?
- is there a standard speed in stations, eg a suggested 20mph max when next to the platform?
- is there a standard approach speed to stations? Eg drop to 60 half mile out?

I guess there are a million more little things like that and that they might vary by class but are there some general guidelines? Is there a guide to these things somewhere? I've looked on Steam and can't find anything and I've watched a few videos but I haven't found anything authoritative yet.

Real life guidance appreciated!
 
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Worm

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My class 166 somehow just started only moving backwards and refused to move forwards, only backwards even when the reverser was only set to forward!
I’m now driving it from the middle cab as I’ve to a 2 unit set and shut down the lead unit. So far I’ve managed to drive blind from the middle.
249ADAFE-79FC-460F-8FA0-F5CB7E79A337.jpeg
 

Unstoppable

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Newbie here, so a big hello !

I've been using TSW2020 and really enjoying trying to get it as realistic as possible, so the safety systems on (still to add DRA, will get to that next!) and trying to stick to the timetables as far as possible. One thing I'm not clear about is how trains are driven in real life - so for example on the Class 166 on GWE, as soon as the doors are closed I can just set the throttle to 7 immediately, the train will accelerate as soon as the vacuum pressure drops on the brakes, and then go (speed limits permitting) at that setting until a few hundred yards from the next station and just bung on the emergency brake to stop as quickly as possible. Now that's an extreme example. Or is it? So what do real life drivers do?

- Always start at low throttle then accelerate more as they speed up?
- Never use more than brakes 1? (or 2? or 3?)
- Is using emergency brake setting seen as bad?
- Is minimal use of power/diesel an issue? (Like with diesel bonus for HGV drivers)
- Do you leave the reverser in forward in stations or move to neutral?
- Do you leave the brake on Full or on Emergency when stopped?
- is there a standard speed in stations, eg a suggested 20mph max when next to the platform?
- is there a standard approach speed to stations? Eg drop to 60 half mile out?

I guess there are a million more little things like that and that they might vary by class but are there some general guidelines? Is there a guide to these things somewhere? I've looked on Steam and can't find anything and I've watched a few videos but I haven't found anything authoritative yet.

Real life guidance appreciated!
For a 7 notch DMU the notching technique varies per TOC however starting in notch 3 followed by notch 5 and notch 7 by 10-15mph depending on rail head conditions is seen as the acceptable method

Drivers brake as lightly as possible as per their companies professional driving standards. Step 1 and 2 are seen as the norm with step 3 being seen as a back up in case issues occur or you misjudge your approach to a station, signal or speed restriction. Emergency is as it suggests. Some trains will not allow a release until around 5mph once placed into emergency

Coasting boards are found on certain networks such as ScotRail. The Electric lines in Glasgow have coasting boards. Drivers under normal conditions accelerate and once they get to the diamond board they cut the power and coast to the next station. There are also coasting boards on certain diesel lines. The longest coasting section being on the Highland Mainline between Slochd Summit and Inverness

It is good practice to leave the reverser in Neutral

Leave the brake in full service

Most drivers have their own techniques for approaching stations however 25mph seems the safest under most circumstances in the event there is an error in judgement or adhesion problems which are unexpected. It gives you some leway

Driving defensively is seen as the safest way to be. Brake earlier and lighter, kill the speed well in advance. Each driver will have their own technique and driving will vary from driver to driver Some instructors even teach their trainees to only adjust the brake controller up to 3 times from when they first brake for the station until they stop at the marker board
 

Fred57

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For a 7 notch DMU the notching technique varies per TOC however starting in notch 3 followed by notch 5 and notch 7 by 10-15mph depending on rail head conditions is seen as the acceptable method

Drivers brake as lightly as possible as per their companies professional driving standards. Step 1 and 2 are seen as the norm with step 3 being seen as a back up in case issues occur or you misjudge your approach to a station, signal or speed restriction. Emergency is as it suggests. Some trains will not allow a release until around 5mph once placed into emergency

Coasting boards are found on certain networks such as ScotRail. The Electric lines in Glasgow have coasting boards. Drivers under normal conditions accelerate and once they get to the diamond board they cut the power and coast to the next station. There are also coasting boards on certain diesel lines. The longest coasting section being on the Highland Mainline between Slochd Summit and Inverness

It is good practice to leave the reverser in Neutral

Leave the brake in full service

Most drivers have their own techniques for approaching stations however 25mph seems the safest under most circumstances in the event there is an error in judgement or adhesion problems which are unexpected. It gives you some leway

Driving defensively is seen as the safest way to be. Brake earlier and lighter, kill the speed well in advance. Each driver will have their own technique and driving will vary from driver to driver Some instructors even teach their trainees to only adjust the brake controller up to 3 times from when they first brake for the station until they stop at the marker board

Excellent - many thanks, exactly what I was looking for !
 

Flange Squeal

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@Unstoppable has covered everything pretty much as I would have.

Only things I’d add are on electric units, a similar gradual increase in power on modern units with combined power/brake controllers when pulling away to avoid an uncomfortable jolt as you begin moving. Older BREL electric units (such as 313s, 455s, 508s etc) with four power notches (shunt, series, parallel, weak field) you may find yourself moving up the notices a bit quicker to get them going. 2/3/4 in fairly quick succession.

Similarly when braking, always try to bring it back to the lowest brake position when coming to a stand to avoid a hard stop and throwing your passengers (and guard where provided!) around. I often drive 12 car trains and on a clear summer’s day you can quite comfortably hit a platform a bit faster at 30-35mph, but always best to give yourself some wiggle room to play with.

Learning where gradients are is also good practice. Pointless accelerating up to linespeed where there is a downhill gradient ahead, only to have to then babysit the brake all the way down the hill. Over time you’ll learn how much speed the downhill gradient adds, so you can shut off below linespeed as you approach and then let the gradient increase the speed for you, learning the optimum speed for the train to naturally reach linespeed as the gradient begins to level off or climb. A similar principle can be used for negotiating flyovers. Aside from just being something to work on and perfect over time to make driving more interesting, it also means one less thing to have to worry about. The less you have to physically do, the smoother and less stressful the drive is.

Different routes and signal spacing will mean everywhere is different, but as a general rule of thumb on suburban routes with closely spaced four-aspect signalling, I usually aim to be doing half linespeed by the single yellow.
 

CC 72100

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Newbie here, so a big hello !

I've been using TSW2020 and really enjoying trying to get it as realistic as possible, so the safety systems on (still to add DRA, will get to that next!) and trying to stick to the timetables as far as possible. One thing I'm not clear about is how trains are driven in real life - so for example on the Class 166 on GWE, as soon as the doors are closed I can just set the throttle to 7 immediately, the train will accelerate as soon as the vacuum pressure drops on the brakes, and then go (speed limits permitting) at that setting until a few hundred yards from the next station and just bung on the emergency brake to stop as quickly as possible. Now that's an extreme example. Or is it? So what do real life drivers do?

- Always start at low throttle then accelerate more as they speed up?
- Never use more than brakes 1? (or 2? or 3?)
- Is using emergency brake setting seen as bad?
- Is minimal use of power/diesel an issue? (Like with diesel bonus for HGV drivers)
- Do you leave the reverser in forward in stations or move to neutral?
- Do you leave the brake on Full or on Emergency when stopped?
- is there a standard speed in stations, eg a suggested 20mph max when next to the platform?
- is there a standard approach speed to stations? Eg drop to 60 half mile out?

I guess there are a million more little things like that and that they might vary by class but are there some general guidelines? Is there a guide to these things somewhere? I've looked on Steam and can't find anything and I've watched a few videos but I haven't found anything authoritative yet.

Real life guidance appreciated!


Always start at low throttle then accelerate more as they speed up? - Yes, there are 7 notches in a Turbo, you would generally move off in notch 3 or 4.

Never use more than brakes 1? (or 2? or 3?) - All brake steps are there to be used. But generally speaking you wouldn't normally need to use anymore than step 2. Using step 2 at a higher speed to take the initial speed off, and then step 1 at lower speeds. Or do it all in step 1, but starting further out. Down to individual preference. In real life, too much step 1 can cause brake performance to suffer as the discs get 'brake glaze' and so become less effective at low speeds, which is why use of higher brake steps (even step 3 if you are trying to get rid of some brake blaze may be desirable. But I can't imagine they've modelled that.

Is using emergency brake setting seen as bad? - Better to use Emergency than SPAD a signal or overrun a station! But if you're using it regularly then something is very, very wrong.

Is minimal use of power/diesel an issue? - If you know the gradient and what is coming up, then you can let the train coast. For example, on a downhill section. Agree with comments about as least use of the controls as possible, by all means don't be complacent or take your eye of the ball if you need to change something, but it is very satisfying letting the gradient do the work when your train needs to increase or decrease speed and not having to move the controls.

Do you leave the reverser in forward in stations or move to neutral? - No need really, unless you're in a situation where you've had to set the DRA.

Do you leave the brake on Full or on Emergency when stopped? - Full service / Step 3.

is there a standard speed in stations, eg a suggested 20mph max when next to the platform? - not really. But 20 at the start of the ramp should give you room to play with and not put you under stress to correctly stop, unless it is a very short platform.

is there a standard approach speed to stations? - Again not really. Various factors - gradient, linespeed, station platform length, low adhesion. One station you can be doing 45mph and full power at about 200 metres from the platform - but you're on a steep rising gradient and the minute you cut the power and put the brake in the speed is killed naturally.

Hope that helps.
 

PupCuff

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so for example on the Class 166 on GWE, as soon as the doors are closed I can just set the throttle to 7 immediately, the train will accelerate as soon as the vacuum pressure drops on the brakes, and then go (speed limits permitting) at that setting until a few hundred yards from the next station and just bung on the emergency brake to stop as quickly as possible. Now that's an extreme example. Or is it? So what do real life drivers do?

Just a small interjection which you may or may not find useful or interesting, the brakes on a Class 166 are 'electropneumatic' which is a form of air braking. This doesn't use a vacuum to control the level of braking on the train, it uses an electrical control signal along train wires (as the name suggests, wires which run continuously along the train) to admit a positive (ie, above atmosphere) air pressure into the brake cylinders on each vehicle when a brake application is commanded. Vacuum braking (which admits air into the brake cylinders using a negative - below atmosphere - air pressure) isn't very common on the mainline at all now and tends to be reserved for heritage traction.
 

Crossover

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Vacuum braking (which admits air into the brake cylinders using a negative - below atmosphere - air pressure) isn't very common on the mainline at all now and tends to be reserved for heritage traction.

Don't quote me on it, but I have a feeling it is banned on the mainline now
 

hexagon789

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Don't quote me on it, but I have a feeling it is banned on the mainline now

Still the odd vacuum braked steam charter, plus the NYMR to Whitby. The Chiltern 121s were vacuum braked and unless something has changed that I've missed there was no requirement to get rid of vacuum braking on the mainline, simply a train must have a braking system which is both continuous and automatic and air or vacuum fit those requirements.

Besides, using the vacuum brake on a DMU is "interesting"! ;)
 

heart-of-wessex

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Brake step 3 used to be the norm in the early 90's?

Don't know if this practise was just used for EMU's presumably commuter routes like North London Line had this practise as well? Quite interesting how it basically tells you to throw it into Step 3, then at the end of the platform bring it down to 1 and stop. If there are leaves, just do the same thing but brake earlier!

Can't imagine any TOC using this video for training nowadays :lol:

 

Bill EWS

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My main gripe is that trains will continue to excellerate in first notch and one notch is either too slow or too fast making it difficult to find a spot that keeps the train cruising at or around the permitted speed. Likewise (not in all trains) the notch will not settle on '0' but either either drop into one notch below or into one notch above. With a single controller driving becomes annoying as you either have a percentage of power or of braking when you don't want them. Could be my set-Up, of course!
 

hexagon789

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Brake step 3 used to be the norm in the early 90's?

Don't know if this practise was just used for EMU's presumably commuter routes like North London Line had this practise as well? Quite interesting how it basically tells you to throw it into Step 3, then at the end of the platform bring it down to 1 and stop. If there are leaves, just do the same thing but brake earlier!

Can't imagine any TOC using this video for training nowadays :lol:


Used to be Step 3 initial with all disc-braked 3-step Westcode brake-equipped trains and Step 2 initial for those with tread brakes. Since the early/mid-1990s the norm has been generally Step 2 initial with disc and step 1 initial with tread.
 

hexagon789

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My main gripe is that trains will continue to excellerate in first notch and one notch is either too slow or too fast making it difficult to find a spot that keeps the train cruising at or around the permitted speed. Likewise (not in all trains) the notch will not settle on '0' but either either drop into one notch below or into one notch above. With a single controller driving becomes annoying as you either have a percentage of power or of braking when you don't want them. Could be my set-Up, of course!

The default tends to be quite inaccurate in many respects. I remember the default for modelled DMUs was that speed would 'lock' to a fixed value for a given notch of power which is simply won't do and the transmission wasn't properly modelled.

With locomotives the power set-up is such that you can often maintain quite high speeds for very little power, often 60 or 70mph in the lowest possible setting with a fair load which is just totally wrong!
 

CC 72100

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I don't have Train Sim World, but going back to regular train simulator, one thing that does frustrate me is power and brake settings that are dynamic (ie. you can select any setting between 1 and 100%) as opposed to notches (power) or steps (brakes) as per real life. Some models do have this correct though; the 150 comes to mind.
 

heart-of-wessex

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Used to be Step 3 initial with all disc-braked 3-step Westcode brake-equipped trains and Step 2 initial for those with tread brakes. Since the early/mid-1990s the norm has been generally Step 2 initial with disc and step 1 initial with tread.

Ahh thank you!

Yes I agree with physics as well, sometimes I'm not quite sure about the Railworks HST, driving the MTU out of Paddington it seems right that it takes me until West Drayton to reach 125mph, then I power off to notch 1 otherwise it will go over that, but I can't get it to cruise so to speak, put it in notch 2 and its speeding up, not rapidly but will knock over 125 easily so have to keep switching notches just to keep a steady speed.
 

Peter Kelford

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I don't have Train Sim World, but going back to regular train simulator, one thing that does frustrate me is power and brake settings that are dynamic (ie. you can select any setting between 1 and 100%) as opposed to notches (power) or steps (brakes) as per real life. Some models do have this correct though; the 150 comes to mind.
Not all trains use notches, but most do.
 

Bill EWS

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I liked the 47's when they first came into service for the continuous power handle where you could select the spot that would keep you at speed for long periods. When notched power handles came in they were a pain from the start in not being able to find a happy medium.
 

hexagon789

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Ahh thank you!

Yes I agree with physics as well, sometimes I'm not quite sure about the Railworks HST, driving the MTU out of Paddington it seems right that it takes me until West Drayton to reach 125mph, then I power off to notch 1 otherwise it will go over that, but I can't get it to cruise so to speak, put it in notch 2 and its speeding up, not rapidly but will knock over 125 easily so have to keep switching notches just to keep a steady speed.

Generally, IRL Notch 3 will just about hold speed around 125 for most sets. Notch 1 will only suffice for about 70mph.
 

hexagon789

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I liked the 47's when they first came into service for the continuous power handle where you could select the spot that would keep you at speed for long periods. When notched power handles came in they were a pain from the start in not being able to find a happy medium.

I don't believe 47s ever did get notched power handles? Perhaps you're thinking of 57s which have US-style 8-notch controllers I believe.

Even push-pull equipped 47/7s still had a continous range though the DBSOs did not.
 

hexagon789

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I don't have Train Sim World, but going back to regular train simulator, one thing that does frustrate me is power and brake settings that are dynamic (ie. you can select any setting between 1 and 100%) as opposed to notches (power) or steps (brakes) as per real life. Some models do have this correct though; the 150 comes to mind.

Even where a continous range is correctly simulated the fineness of control isn't great on some and is too good on others!
 

Bill EWS

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I apologise if I have made it look as if the 47's had notches. I was talking about following traction with notched controllers started coming in as more the norm. I didn't mean 47's.
 

hexagon789

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I apologise if I have made it look as if the 47's had notches. I was talking about following traction with notched controllers started coming in as more the norm. I didn't mean 47's.

I think it was just the way I read your post, I agree that most of the classes after the 56s have US-style 8-notch power controllers
 

hexagon789

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A couple of Professional Driving Policies as pdf's to keep you going!


East Coast

Heathrow Express

Shame the EC one doesn't mention the braking instructions, at least the HC one does but I find trying to judge a station stop from 100mph in just Step 1 without making any adjustments is a real challenge; I almost always have to either release and re-apply the brakes or use a splash of Step 2 to correct the approach.
 

Stigy

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To add, Turbos also have extra brake pressure in emergency, where other trains don’t always (can’t answer for all trains, but I know 15x class trains have no extra brake pressure in emergency than they do in step 3). Vaguely relevant.
 

ainsworth74

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To add, Turbos also have extra brake pressure in emergency, where other trains don’t always (can’t answer for all trains, but I know 15x class trains have no extra brake pressure in emergency than they do in step 3). Vaguely relevant.
Out of curiosity on units where emergency doesn't bring any extra brake force does using emergency dump the brake any quicker than the highest "normal" brake application?
 

Stigy

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Out of curiosity on units where emergency doesn't bring any extra brake force does using emergency dump the brake any quicker than the highest "normal" brake application?
I’ve heard it does on 16x, but I’ve never tried it on the move. I guess it stands to reason that it would do if you press the ‘plunger’ as you’re bypassing all other brake steps and taking the human element away of actually operating the controller. I don’t think that’s to do with there being extra brake force, but rather having the ability to hit a button.

Edit: and I’ve just realised you’re talking about units without extra brake force :D

There’s no plunger on either of the other trains I (will) sign, only turbos. I still can’t answer you definitively. Maybe someone else can.
 

hexagon789

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To add, Turbos also have extra brake pressure in emergency, where other trains don’t always (can’t answer for all trains, but I know 15x class trains have no extra brake pressure in emergency than they do in step 3). Vaguely relevant.

Most trains built since the early 1990s have enhanced emergency braking, 158s don't but Networkers do. 321s were retrofitted.

The change coincided with the ammendments to 3-step brake braking instructions, the idea being that even if a driver used full service and ran out of braking distance at least having a higher emergency braking rate gave more brake power if required.

It did require strengthening of some bogie frames to take the extra stresses hence why not everything could be retrofitted. It's also why originally there was a 2 minute timeout before an emergency application could be reset to discourage use in normal service.
 
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