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Realtime Trains freight headcodes

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Harbon 1

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No, not a question why they don't have them before anyone starts... ;)

But tonight I noticed 6K50 was a listed headcode on a (obviously) freight service. (was correct reporting number, checked with WTT)

Do we think this has slipped through the net so to speak or have there been any other occurrences?

Was GBRf run if that changes anything.
 
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matt

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Gbrf services are no longer randomised. Neither are DCR services.
 

Freightmaster

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I think that GB freights have been 'in the clear for a couple of years now.

As for DCR, my understanding is that they were originally registered as a TOC,
which is why their trains are not scrambled.


If you want to see 'uncensored' freight headcodes, you should check out
my Realtime Maps! ;)


MARK
 

ryan125hst

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Personally, I've never understood why they felt the need to scramble them in the first place. Obviously it stems from competitors getting information, but why is it fine to publish the times the train will leave its origin and arrive at its destination, including the times it will get to each place in between, yet the headcode is far too commercially sensitive to publish? The first digit is correct, so you can find out whether it's a light loco, class 4 freight, class 6 freight etc, and the letter could probably be worked out from the destination of the train. The other numbers don't mean that much yet they choose to scramble them.

It seems baffling to me that the thing that is only of use to those in the rail industry is hidden yet all the detailed timings are in the public domain. Does anyone know why the industry made this decision?
 

Spartacus

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They weren't originally scrambled, but were when someone suggested possible security implications concerning sensitive goods conveyed by some trains, not that I ever thought it was a real worry, as the REALLY sensitive ones weren't there anyway, and the more sensitive ones could be taken off realtimetrains by removing those with certain service codes. Of course, it doesn't take much railway knowledge to work out which there are likely to be anyway, so it can't really have any effect that way.

It's nothing to do with competition as the headcodes are all there in TRUST which everyone in the industry has, including weights and if it has any sensitive cargos.
 

Bald Rick

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I'd be interested how the scrambling works. A Freightliner on the Hope cement empties went past me yesterday, it's scrambled code was 666K or something, and the loco on the front was 66601!
 
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Freightmaster

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Personally, I've never understood why they felt the need to scramble them in the first place. Obviously it stems from competitors getting information...
As Spartacus says, that's an urban myth, as all the FOCs have full access
to TRUST and TOPS, so can look up details of competitors' train services
to their heart's content; not just basic stuff like headcodes and tonnages,
but also commodities/dangerous goods, number of wagons loaded/empty
(including how many containers are on intermodal trains), the types of
wagons each train is using including any cripples, plus a huge amount
of other, genuinely 'commercially sensitive' information!



but why is it fine to publish the times the train will leave its origin and arrive at its destination, including the times it will get to each place in between, yet the headcode is far too commercially sensitive to publish?
It's not the headcode as such which needs to be kept secret,
it's simply that the FOCs (other than GBRf, obviously!) do not want
their trains to be easily identifiable/traceable, and scrambling the
headcode (and removing the FOC name too) is by far the easiest
way to achieve that.

Now I know that the origin/destination of freight services often contain the
name of the FOC, but that isn't always the case, and even when they do,
they are not always accurate; a good example being trains to Whitemoor,
which say "Whitemoor yard GBRf" even when they are operated by Colas,
FHH or DRS!



It seems baffling to me that the thing that is only of use to those in the rail industry is hidden yet all the detailed timings are in the public domain. Does anyone know why the industry made this decision?
It's still down to "commercial sensitivity", but in a broader sense,
i.e. the transport/logistics sector as a whole, so the FOCs don't
want road/sea shipping companies to know how many trains each
of them operate on a given flow on a given day/week/month.


MARK
 

ryan125hst

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Thanks for clearing that up all. I guess it wouldn't be too difficult to work out how many flows of a particular product each company has each day/week but it would probably require railway knowledge to work it out. Saying that, I'm sure Freightliner used to have a schedule of their container traffic on there website. I don't know if they still do.
 

GB

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I think that GB freights have been 'in the clear for a couple of years now.

As for DCR, my understanding is that they were originally registered as a TOC,
which is why their trains are not scrambled.


If you want to see 'uncensored' freight headcodes, you should check out
my Realtime Maps! ;)


MARK

Have you any info on this on how you have unscrambled them and what your maps look like?

Thanks
 

Freightmaster

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Have you any info on this on how you have unscrambled them...
By hand!!

There is no magic way to 'reverse engineer' the headcode scrambling process,
so I have simply created an enormous database of all regular (non GBRf)
freight headcodes and schedule details which I update every week with
STPs and new services.

It's extremely labour intensive and time consuming, but as it happens,
I have to keep track of freight headcodes anyway for my day job, so
it means that the FMonline timetables have become far more accurate
and up to date as a side effect! :)


MARK
 

Harbon 1

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Finding a headcode for the odd regular run isn't that difficult, I always have a PDF of the WTT from Network Rail's website :D
 

David Goddard

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It's still down to "commercial sensitivity", but in a broader sense, i.e. the transport/logistics sector as a whole, so the FOCs don't want road/sea shipping companies to know how many trains each of them operate on a given flow on a given day/week/month.
MARK

So they just send out a spy with a notebook to count them instead.
 
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