NightStar
Member
GidDay All, I have a feasibility question regarding rebuilding a Class 73 into a generator car for the nightstar trains. The Nightstar would have overloaded the third rail system while being hauled by the Class 92 electric locomotives. So a class 73 power pack was to be constructed. My question is wether or not anyone would care to speculate along with me on how this might have been accomplished? Or rather should have been accomplished.
Now therein lies a long tale! The trains were due to be hauled by Class 92's on British soil but it was quite complicated. The Swansea / Plymouth Waterloo trains were due to have the wierd 37 + Gen Van + 37 formation into Waterloo to swap for the Class 92 forward to Dollands Moor. However, the 92 would have overloaded the third rail hauling the train and running the services on board, so a Class 73 generator vehicle was planned, which would go on the rear and drop off at Dollands Moor, to be replaced by a 2nd 92 to go through the tunnel to Calais Ville Yard. There, both 92's would be replaced by an SNCF 26xxx electric to Bruxelles where an SNCB 13xx electric would go forward to either Roosendaal or Aachen. Yet another change at Aachen would see the 103xxx work forward to Koln / Dortmund. But, the 13xx and 103xxx were not compatible with the stock services, so it was planned for a Dutch 18xx loco to work to Amsterdam and on the German ones, a 232xxx diesel from DB to act as assisting Gen loco (for which I spent a week in East Germany photographing and trialling the couplings!). Oh and at Rugby, the Manchester section was due to have a 90 and a 90 was also booked for the ecs from Glasgow central to Polmadie for servicing. We spent weeks at Helemmes depot, Lille, with a set of Nightstar coaches and various loco's being dragged in, to try out all the permutations (not the 90/92/37 - they were done at North Pole) and we spent many nights working overnight from Washwood Heath Sidings to the Lichfield line for testing during the night. We also did some testing at Aachen. The responsibility for how the loco's would work the train was mine and it was a nightmare operation and fortunately never taken on or it would have been a disaster, operationally... Oh for a loco capable of working the train throughout!
Dale / BasilDD
This article was published on www.UKTrainsim.com in the forums by a member who was in charge of the locomotives and how they would interact with the ENS cars. Sadly he passed away a couple of years ago so I cannot ask directly about this proposed conversion.
So I have come up with what I think is a total acceptable method of conversion:
Class 73 Generator Vehicle- Owner EPS (European Passenger Services). For use on the proposed Night star service when on third rail power supply.
Suggested locomotive for conversion should be a unit at the end of it's service life internally do to the extent of the conversion envisioned. Suggested locomotive be of hulk status. That is a unit that retains the cab controls, traction motors, and parts of the electrical system, third rail equipment, air/vacuum brake systems. The engine should be mainly without it's main engine and minor cannibalizing of parts. The unit should not be beyond being put back together. No structural damage or frame deterioration.
(The locomotive should still be able to operate under its own power, either diesel/electric when not in HEP power pack operation after conversion work is completed.)
Class 73 hulk converted as follows:
Fitting of main engine with the British equivalent of a EMD 645E 12 cylinder engine.
HP increased to 1850HP. For both diesel/electric operations.
Fitting of alternator and rectifier system.
Rebuilding of the electrical system for both locomotive use diesel/electric, as well as for supplying HEP to the Nightstar train. This refit should include provisions for operation as both a diesel, and a third rail electric locomotive, and provide HEP at the tune of several hundred KV to ENS cars.
Replacement of motor/generator/flywheel set with a modern small, yet powerful model of Motor/Generator/Flywheel system. Feasibility of using super/ultra capacitors and their charging/discharging controllers for bridging third rail gaps. Possibility of using a combination of caps/batteries as being developed in Australia, and by GE in the United States.
Using solenoids, relays, contactors to re-route main traction power to HEP plugs for use with ENS Nightstar sleeper stock.
Fitted with controls for allowing the throttle to independently control additional locomotives while the class 73 is operating as a HEP power pack.
Fitting of electronic wheel slip/traction control systems.
Fitting of ETS through train jumper cabling for MU operation with other units setup for ETS supply.
Fitting of multiple unit operation control.
Possibility of fitting electro dynamic/regenerative braking.
Feasibility of using super/ultra capacitors to store dynamic/Regenerative braking energy to be recycled when starting from a station stop or signal stop to save diesel/electro energy. The recycled energy also would give the advantage of being able to more quickly restart the train from mentioned stops. Any excess energy left over from charging the cap/battery systems or prolonged braking applications can also be fed back into the third rail and the traction current power systems for use by other trains in the district if the class 73 is operating as an electric locomotive. If operating as a diesel locomotive than excess power would after charging caps/batteries would have to be routed to resistive loads in the roof.
Retro fitting of AC traction motors and control systems for pure AC transmission and dynamic/regenerative braking ability. (Eliminates the restrictions a DC traction system creates for dynamic/regenerative braking systems). Down side is the need for variable frequency drive for controlling the AC traction systems. To save space this could be one inverter per truck. Or 6 inverters, one per traction motor. The last option allows for cutting out just the faulty traction motor but not the whole truck.
Essentially when done this class 73 will be updated to the standards that of a American EMD built diesel locomotive of similar vintage. Most similarly to that of a MP15AC like those operated by the Long Island Railroad, Which could operate as a HEP pack but not as a locomotive at the same time. The modernized class 73 will be slightly more powerful than a MP15AC do to the requirements of the Nightstar hotel HEP requirements.
When not in HEP or ETS power pack mode, this locomotive could be used as a shunter either in diesel or electric mode for shunting Nightstar cars or shunting requirements of the depot were this locomotive is to be stationed. The unit could also haul the Nightstar over the third rail district if a additional generator car is supplyed for the HEP demands.
This was drawn up the other night for my ficitional RY company. I understand do to the constraints of the loading gauge that some of what I propose is not possible.
Robert
Now therein lies a long tale! The trains were due to be hauled by Class 92's on British soil but it was quite complicated. The Swansea / Plymouth Waterloo trains were due to have the wierd 37 + Gen Van + 37 formation into Waterloo to swap for the Class 92 forward to Dollands Moor. However, the 92 would have overloaded the third rail hauling the train and running the services on board, so a Class 73 generator vehicle was planned, which would go on the rear and drop off at Dollands Moor, to be replaced by a 2nd 92 to go through the tunnel to Calais Ville Yard. There, both 92's would be replaced by an SNCF 26xxx electric to Bruxelles where an SNCB 13xx electric would go forward to either Roosendaal or Aachen. Yet another change at Aachen would see the 103xxx work forward to Koln / Dortmund. But, the 13xx and 103xxx were not compatible with the stock services, so it was planned for a Dutch 18xx loco to work to Amsterdam and on the German ones, a 232xxx diesel from DB to act as assisting Gen loco (for which I spent a week in East Germany photographing and trialling the couplings!). Oh and at Rugby, the Manchester section was due to have a 90 and a 90 was also booked for the ecs from Glasgow central to Polmadie for servicing. We spent weeks at Helemmes depot, Lille, with a set of Nightstar coaches and various loco's being dragged in, to try out all the permutations (not the 90/92/37 - they were done at North Pole) and we spent many nights working overnight from Washwood Heath Sidings to the Lichfield line for testing during the night. We also did some testing at Aachen. The responsibility for how the loco's would work the train was mine and it was a nightmare operation and fortunately never taken on or it would have been a disaster, operationally... Oh for a loco capable of working the train throughout!
Dale / BasilDD
This article was published on www.UKTrainsim.com in the forums by a member who was in charge of the locomotives and how they would interact with the ENS cars. Sadly he passed away a couple of years ago so I cannot ask directly about this proposed conversion.
So I have come up with what I think is a total acceptable method of conversion:
Class 73 Generator Vehicle- Owner EPS (European Passenger Services). For use on the proposed Night star service when on third rail power supply.
Suggested locomotive for conversion should be a unit at the end of it's service life internally do to the extent of the conversion envisioned. Suggested locomotive be of hulk status. That is a unit that retains the cab controls, traction motors, and parts of the electrical system, third rail equipment, air/vacuum brake systems. The engine should be mainly without it's main engine and minor cannibalizing of parts. The unit should not be beyond being put back together. No structural damage or frame deterioration.
(The locomotive should still be able to operate under its own power, either diesel/electric when not in HEP power pack operation after conversion work is completed.)
Class 73 hulk converted as follows:
Fitting of main engine with the British equivalent of a EMD 645E 12 cylinder engine.
HP increased to 1850HP. For both diesel/electric operations.
Fitting of alternator and rectifier system.
Rebuilding of the electrical system for both locomotive use diesel/electric, as well as for supplying HEP to the Nightstar train. This refit should include provisions for operation as both a diesel, and a third rail electric locomotive, and provide HEP at the tune of several hundred KV to ENS cars.
Replacement of motor/generator/flywheel set with a modern small, yet powerful model of Motor/Generator/Flywheel system. Feasibility of using super/ultra capacitors and their charging/discharging controllers for bridging third rail gaps. Possibility of using a combination of caps/batteries as being developed in Australia, and by GE in the United States.
Using solenoids, relays, contactors to re-route main traction power to HEP plugs for use with ENS Nightstar sleeper stock.
Fitted with controls for allowing the throttle to independently control additional locomotives while the class 73 is operating as a HEP power pack.
Fitting of electronic wheel slip/traction control systems.
Fitting of ETS through train jumper cabling for MU operation with other units setup for ETS supply.
Fitting of multiple unit operation control.
Possibility of fitting electro dynamic/regenerative braking.
Feasibility of using super/ultra capacitors to store dynamic/Regenerative braking energy to be recycled when starting from a station stop or signal stop to save diesel/electro energy. The recycled energy also would give the advantage of being able to more quickly restart the train from mentioned stops. Any excess energy left over from charging the cap/battery systems or prolonged braking applications can also be fed back into the third rail and the traction current power systems for use by other trains in the district if the class 73 is operating as an electric locomotive. If operating as a diesel locomotive than excess power would after charging caps/batteries would have to be routed to resistive loads in the roof.
Retro fitting of AC traction motors and control systems for pure AC transmission and dynamic/regenerative braking ability. (Eliminates the restrictions a DC traction system creates for dynamic/regenerative braking systems). Down side is the need for variable frequency drive for controlling the AC traction systems. To save space this could be one inverter per truck. Or 6 inverters, one per traction motor. The last option allows for cutting out just the faulty traction motor but not the whole truck.
Essentially when done this class 73 will be updated to the standards that of a American EMD built diesel locomotive of similar vintage. Most similarly to that of a MP15AC like those operated by the Long Island Railroad, Which could operate as a HEP pack but not as a locomotive at the same time. The modernized class 73 will be slightly more powerful than a MP15AC do to the requirements of the Nightstar hotel HEP requirements.
When not in HEP or ETS power pack mode, this locomotive could be used as a shunter either in diesel or electric mode for shunting Nightstar cars or shunting requirements of the depot were this locomotive is to be stationed. The unit could also haul the Nightstar over the third rail district if a additional generator car is supplyed for the HEP demands.
This was drawn up the other night for my ficitional RY company. I understand do to the constraints of the loading gauge that some of what I propose is not possible.
Robert
Last edited: