Received new card; have tickets uncollected on old card

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JoeGJ1984

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Looking for advice: I've got tickets to collect with my current debit card (travelling on 28th July) with expiry date end of July. But I got a new card through the post today for the same account which it says I can use right away (start date June). I booked through East Coast's website and it is says "Please note that this card is due to expire near to your travel date".

What should I do? Would using the new card cancel the old one, leaving me unable to collect my tickets? What if I used my old card again now (as there's no way to guarantee when I'd get the new card through the post).
 
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OwlMan

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When collecting tickets the Ticket Machine does not access your account; all it does is check your name against the card number (if your bank use the name field, if your bank does not use the field it just checks the number) and the card number & name against the reservation. You should keep your old card to collect the tickets. There is no reason why you should not start using your new card.

Peter
 

rail-britain

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This is a common question, with resultant complaint, and the message from the TOC is quite confusing

People often dispose of the old card, not being aware they need to retain it simply to collect the tickets
Using the new card results in failure to issue the tickets on some card types
 

island

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You can collect the tickets with the old card, whether you've used the new one or not. And you can collect them whenever you like, not just on the day of travel.
 

EricS

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A warning if you use your debit card to withdraw cash from cash machines:

Once, a short while after being sent a new debit card, I put the old one (which had outstanding train tickets) in a cash machine. As the old card had been replaced, the cash machine swallowed it and wouldn't return it. I should have just stopped using the old one and kept it solely to collect the tickets.
 

island

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Same will apply if you use your old debit card in a store, the cashier will be instructed to retain the card.
 

yorkie

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Simply start using the new one straight away.

Don't use the old one for anything apart from collecting tickets you have already purchased. Collect these tickets at the first available opportunity. Simple!
 

EltonRoad

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Presumably the ticket machine doesn't contact the bank in any way, whereas a cashpoint would; it simply checks the details against a database.
 

SussexMan

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When you get a new Credit/Debit Card (replacement for an expired one, not a new account) the 16 digit account number doesn't change - or does it? If it doesn't, why do ticket retailers not let you use the new card - or do they? What is being checked when you pick up your ticket? Can't they just check that the account number is the same? Are we sure you can't pick them up using the new card? Am I right in thinking that the other card on a joint account can be used to pick up tickets?
 

JoeGJ1984

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The 16 digit card number has a different last four digits but the first twelve are the same. I presume that's what you mean by account number; it doesn't seem to have any bearing on the bank account number (although this is displayed on the card).
 

John @ home

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When you get a new Credit/Debit Card (replacement for an expired one, not a new account) the 16 digit account number doesn't change - or does it?
The 16 digit card number has a different last four digits but the first twelve are the same.
It's not as simple as that. Some financial institutions change the number each time they re-issue the card. Others don't. It's the ones which change that have potential difficulties with uncollected tickets from TVMs.
Am I right in thinking that the other card on a joint account can be used to pick up tickets?
No. It's the card number that matters, not the account number.
 

EltonRoad

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When you pay over the internet you type in the 16 digit number and the expiry date (and 3 digit code on the back) so presumably that's the only info that the ticket machine can check against. As JoeG says a new card can have a different 16 digit number, sometimes changes by a few digits.
 

GNER 91128

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Can you not ring East Coast up and see if they can post them to you?

I had to ring up Eurostar to get my tickets posted to me because the card I booked them on wasn't mine and the person who's card it is can't be there when I travel.
 

Scotty

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How would the TVM know which cards are connected on a joint accout? I would expect it simply has a database of tickets, uniquely identified by the ticket reference and card number...
 

TheEscapist_

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The TVM would keep your old card, the Scotrail machines at Waverley seem to retain cards each week for some poor unsuspecting people, to make it worse for them they can't get the card out the machine!
 

causton

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The TVM would keep your old card, the Scotrail machines at Waverley seem to retain cards each week for some poor unsuspecting people, to make it worse for them they can't get the card out the machine!

Interesting.

All the machines around here only take your card halfway - as in, you can still see the card poking out when it's fully inserted!
 
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When you get a new Credit/Debit Card (replacement for an expired one, not a new account) the 16 digit account number doesn't change - or does it? If it doesn't, why do ticket retailers not let you use the new card - or do they? What is being checked when you pick up your ticket? Can't they just check that the account number is the same? Are we sure you can't pick them up using the new card? Am I right in thinking that the other card on a joint account can be used to pick up tickets?

The 16 digit card number has a different last four digits but the first twelve are the same. I presume that's what you mean by account number; it doesn't seem to have any bearing on the bank account number (although this is displayed on the card).

With a new credit/debit card, only the 16 digit card number changes as the card is linked to your account.

Your 8 digit account number and 6 digit sort code do not change.

You can also use the same PIN number most of the time too.

HTH.

(Apologies for the slightly off topic post)
 

TheEscapist_

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Interesting.

All the machines around here only take your card halfway - as in, you can still see the card poking out when it's fully inserted!

The ones that Scotrail use take the card in all the way, unlike the ones EC use in the travel centre! I never use the SR ones, don't trust them! :)
 

GNER 91128

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With a new credit/debit card, only the 16 digit card number changes as the card is linked to your account.

Your 8 digit account number and 6 digit sort code do not change.

You can also use the same PIN number most of the time too.

HTH.

(Apologies for the slightly off topic post)

Hardly any cards have the account number on them these days.
 

WillPS

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Hardly any cards have the account number on them these days.

Not true - as far as I know RBS is the only major one that doesnt.

For sure the Co-op, HBOS and Barclays do, pretty sure Lloyds TSB do as well. Clydesdale/Yorkshire had last time I checked too. Alliance & Leicester used to have a version of the account number with an extra number shoved on the front, not sure about newer Santander cards.
 

SussexMan

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Sorry for causing hopeless confusion by mentioning the words "account number" but I would have thought it was very clear I was not talking about the account number but the card number as I had specifically written "16 digit account number". Apologies.

I am intrigued that [email protected] says the other holder of a joint account can't pick up the tickets. The other credit card linked to to mine has the same 16 digit CARD number so cards certainly don't have unique numbers. The only difference visually is the account holder name and the ticket retailer won't have that information.

I think we are still dealing with a load of unknowns here. If your card number doesn't change with the issue of a new card, can you use the new card to pick up the tickets?
 

IanXC

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I am intrigued that [email protected] says the other holder of a joint account can't pick up the tickets. The other credit card linked to to mine has the same 16 digit CARD number so cards certainly don't have unique numbers. The only difference visually is the account holder name and the ticket retailer won't have that information.

Credit cards or debit cards though? Historically additional cardholders for credit cards (it is not possible to have a 'joint' credit card) would have the same card number as the main cardholder. Some issuers may still do this, but most issue differently numbered cards.

Debit cards will now (as far as I know - Maestro used to be an exception, not sure about Debit Mastercards) have different numbers for each joint account holder. From a retailer's point of view these cards are unrelated, and so the other account holder would not be able to collect tickets booked with the other card.
 

SussexMan

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Credit cards or debit cards though?

The other credit card linked to to mine has the same 16 digit CARD number.

So, do we need to find out what information is being used by the ticket retailers? We don't actually seem to know this and all we are working on is "it needs to be the same card". What is electronically being checked when collecting the tickets?
 

island

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The 16 digit card number has a different last four digits but the first twelve are the same. I presume that's what you mean by account number; it doesn't seem to have any bearing on the bank account number (although this is displayed on the card).
That's not always correct. Some banks will keep the same PAN (the industry name for the 16-digit card number) on new cards, others will change the last three or four digits, others still will change the seventh, eighth, and last digits.
How would the TVM know which cards are connected on a joint accout? I would expect it simply has a database of tickets, uniquely identified by the ticket reference and card number...
If the card has the same PAN and expiry date it would match. If it doesn't, it wouldn't. There are additional details on the chip and stripe called the PAN sequence number (this is equivalent to the issue number that used to be printed on all debit cards but nowadays has mostly been removed) which enables a distinction to be made between the two cards in point of sale use. You will see "PAN SEQ NO" on many card receipts.
The TVM would keep your old card, the Scotrail machines at Waverley seem to retain cards each week for some poor unsuspecting people, to make it worse for them they can't get the card out the machine!
Most TVMs do not have the capacity to retain cards. FSR is an exception. But I wonder if the cards haven't simply jammed.
With a new credit/debit card, only the 16 digit card number changes as the card is linked to your account.

Your 8 digit account number and 6 digit sort code do not change.

You can also use the same PIN number most of the time too.

HTH.

(Apologies for the slightly off topic post)
Again, the 16-digit PAN may not change.
Hardly any cards have the account number on them these days.
All the debit cards I have ever had in the UK have had my account number on them.
 

GNER 91128

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Not true - as far as I know RBS is the only major one that doesnt.

For sure the Co-op, HBOS and Barclays do, pretty sure Lloyds TSB do as well. Clydesdale/Yorkshire had last time I checked too. Alliance & Leicester used to have a version of the account number with an extra number shoved on the front, not sure about newer Santander cards.

Ah that explains that then, I'm with Natwest.
 

EltonRoad

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Rather than adopt that approach, which would reduce security checks for the 99% of cards that aren't about to expire (and wouldn't work anyway for the seemingly large number of cards that have their number changed on renewal), they should make a message flash up that tells you to keep hold of the card and use it to retrieve your tickets.
 

SussexMan

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Or you could argue that the ticket retailers have reduced security by not requiring me to enter the Ticket Collection Reference into the collection machine....
 

route:oxford

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When you pay over the internet you type in the 16 digit number and the expiry date (and 3 digit code on the back) so presumably that's the only info that the ticket machine can check against. As JoeG says a new card can have a different 16 digit number, sometimes changes by a few digits.

And the expiry date is very likely to change.
 
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