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Recent African American deaths

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Harbornite

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There have been a handful of deaths in the USA which have made the headlines over there.

On July 5th, Alton Sterling was filmed being restrained and shot dead by police.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/06/alton-sterling-gun-baton-rouge-new-video

Yesterday, a man named Philando Castile was shot dead in his car after going to retrieve his license. The aftermath was livestreamed by his girlfriend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36732908

Finally, a man was found hanging from a tree in Piedmont Park. Twitter seems to think that it was a lynching because the KKK apparently operate in the area. However the police have claimed it was suicide.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/police-body-found-in-piedmont-park-a-suicide-victi/nrtJq/


Either way, all three of the individuals are black so the black lives matter movement is trending again.
 
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Kite159

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Yesterday, a man named Philando Castile was shot dead in his car after going to retrieve his license. The aftermath was livestreamed by his girlfriend

And the sad thing is that the police officer who did the shooting in question probably will be let off with a mild slap on the wrists, maybe demoted a rank or 'forced' to retire early. :(
 

Harbornite

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Indeed, both deaths were avoidable. In the car incident, the chap had a gun on him but was apparently licensed to carry it and his girlfriend tried to explain to the officer that he hadn't intended to get his gun, rather he was getting his drivers license.
 

Flamingo

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The moral of the story is, if talking to somebody pointing a gun at you, keep your hands in the air and visible at all times.

I know the last (only) time I got stopped while driving in the US, I made a point of telling everybody in the car to put their hands on the dash before the State Trooper got to the car, and when he asked for my licence I told him exactly where it was before I went to get it out.

So many people DO carry guns there, one can understand the police for being a bit trigger-happy. It is a different mentality. Last time I was there, a friend of a friend (retired, PhD, very well spoken) asked me what sidearms train-crew in the UK carried in case of trouble on the train! (I told him I had a whistle!). He never left home without a pistol tucked into his belt or glovebox.

Better to be a live defendant than a dead hero, I've heard said.
 

Harbornite

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The moral of the story is, if talking to somebody pointing a gun at you, keep your hands in the air and visible at all times.

I know the last (only) time I got stopped while driving in the US, I made a point of telling everybody in the car to put their hands on the dash before the State Trooper got to the car, and when he asked for my licence I told him exactly where it was before I went to get it out.

So many people DO carry guns there, one can understand the police for being a bit trigger-happy. It is a different mentality. Last time I was there, a friend of a friend (retired, PhD, very well spoken) asked me what sidearms train-crew in the UK carried in case of trouble on the train! (I told him I had a whistle!). He never left home without a pistol tucked into his belt or glovebox.

Better to be a live defendant than a dead hero, I've heard said.

I can see the logic behind your last statement. The USA has a definite gun problem, its relationship with the things is rather unusual. As you say, communication is important and the man's life could have been saved if there was better communication.
 

AlterEgo

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The man's life would have been saved if black Americans and the police had a better relationship with each other. Unfortunately, that's a vast problem, and one that varies from state to state. I don't see a unified solution any time soon.

One thing is for certain. A lot of black men get killed by the police there.

I find the American obsession with weapons interesting and saddening both at once. If ever I am stopped by an American policeman I will have my bloody hands up pretty damn quick.
 

Gutfright

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Finally, a man was found hanging from a tree in Piedmont Park. Twitter seems to think that it was a lynching because the KKK apparently operate in the area. However the police have claimed it was suicide.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/police-body-found-in-piedmont-park-a-suicide-victi/nrtJq/

There were no discernible signs of a struggle or foul play. A medical examiner concluded that the death was consistent with a suicide.

Twitter being Twitter decided to choose sensastionalist nonsense over facts.
 

Harbornite

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There were no discernible signs of a struggle or foul play. A medical examiner concluded that the death was consistent with a suicide.

Twitter being Twitter decided to choose sensastionalist nonsense over facts.

Indeed, trial by internet. Many people on there don't trust what the police have said about the incident, hence the lynching accusations. On another note, They also seem to overlook the fact that it's not just blacks who are victims of police brutality, althogh the majority of cases are blacks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The man's life would have been saved if black Americans and the police had a better relationship with each other. Unfortunately, that's a vast problem, and one that varies from state to state. I don't see a unified solution any time soon.

One thing is for certain. A lot of black men get killed by the police there.

I find the American obsession with weapons interesting and saddening both at once. If ever I am stopped by an American policeman I will have my bloody hands up pretty damn quick.

I don't blame you, and yes there are problems. The police need to engage with black communties in a more positive way, perhaps if they could get more black officers (easier said than done) then that would help.
 
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yorkie

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Twitter being Twitter decided to choose sensationalist nonsense over facts.
Not quite, no. People who make sensationalist false claims will do so using any means they can, which may include twitter.
 

Gutfright

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Not quite, no. People who make sensationalist false claims will do so using any means they can, which may include twitter.

Twitter makes it so much easier for stuff like that to spread. A lie will travel halfway round the world while the truth's still getting it's shoes on.
 

yorkie

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Twitter makes it so much easier for stuff like that to spread. A lie will travel halfway round the world while the truth's still getting it's shoes on.
So you agree with me? Yes, social media does make it easier for them.

I'm so glad I don't live in the USA; their obsession with guns is extremely unhealthy, and race issues do seem to be a big problem there.
 

Tim R-T-C

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Well it is going to get a lot more complex now. Expect a lot more shootings in the foreseeable future as police will be even more trigger happy and some groups wiill use this as an excuse to attack black protesters.
 

Greenback

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The gun culture of the USA is a major contributory factor to these incidents. The police there are very concerned about the possibility of someone having a firearm and trying to use it on them.

However, race must surely be an issue as well. If there is any chance at all that a white officer will be more likely to shoot a black person who they feel might be reaching for a weapon (or more likely to be reaching for a weapon might be a better way of describing it) than it also has to be a contributing factor. I can't say unequivocally that that is the case, naturally, but i suspect that it is.
 

Flamingo

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The gun culture of the USA is a major contributory factor to these incidents. The police there are very concerned about the possibility of someone having a firearm and trying to use it on them.

However, race must surely be an issue as well. If there is any chance at all that a white officer will be more likely to shoot a black person who they feel might be reaching for a weapon (or more likely to be reaching for a weapon might be a better way of describing it) than it also has to be a contributing factor. I can't say unequivocally that that is the case, naturally, but i suspect that it is.

According to research, there a good chance a BLACK police officer will shoot a black person who they feel might be reaching for a weapon...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32740523
The original 'Shoot, Don't Shoot' studies have a subject sitting in front a computer monitor and photos pop up very quickly, showing either a white or black man. That man either has a gun in his hand or a neutral object like a cell phone. The subject is told 'if you see a threat, hit the 'shoot' key and if you don't see a threat, hit the 'don't shoot' key'. "

The studies suggest that implicit biases affect these actions - for example in some studies people are quicker to 'shoot' an unarmed black man than an unarmed white man. A Department of Justice report released in March looking at the use of deadly force by Philadelphia police, supports the idea that police are susceptible to implicit bias:

"One of the things they looked at is what they called threat perception failure. The officer believed that the person was armed and it turned out not to be the case. And these failures were more likely to occur when the subject was black [even if the officers were themselves black or Latino].

"Officers, like the rest of us, have an implicit bias linking blacks to crime. So the black crime implicit bias might be implicated in some of the use of deadly force against African-Americans in our country.

"An important message in our training is that stereotypes are based in part on fact, and we have to recognise this because in our country, people of colour are disproportionately represented amongst the people who commit street crime.

"That does not give you licence to treat every individual in a group as if they fit the stereotype, that's where we go wrong."
 
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Greenback

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That's interesting. The idea that black people, and presumably young black males more thanj most, are likely to be tooled up and prepared to use whatever weapon they might have is probably a deeply rooted one with all police officers, regardless of their own colour.

I wonder how much of this is influenced by reality?
 

221129

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And at a protest in Dallas over this very issue, 10 police officers have been shot by at least 2 snipers. 4 fatally.
 

Harbornite

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Here is the BBC article on the incident, very concerning.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-36743033

Summary

Five police officers have been shot dead by snipers at a protest in Dallas
Six more officers were injured in the shooting, some critically
Three suspects are in custody and are refusing to co-operate with police
One further suspect, who had been in a stand-off with police, is now dead, US media reports say
President Obama calls attack 'vicious, calculated and despicable' and says justice will be done
The protest in Dallas was sparked by the shootings of Philando Castile and Alton Sterling by police in Minnesota and Louisiana
 
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Johnuk123

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And at a protest in Dallas over this very issue, 10 police officers have been shot by at least 2 snipers. 4 fatally.

It's 5 dead police officers, 3 suspects in custody and 1 has apparently shot himself.
 

Harbornite

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Seems like these people want revenge and that killing is the best way to achieve this. Someone should tell them that not all cops have killed black people and that tarring everyone with the same brush isn't a good idea. It's also quite ironic that considerably more Blacks over there are killed by blacks, but the black lives matter hashtag us conveniently forgotten in those instances.

However, I should add that I'm not suggesting that the cops are blameless in this, there are issues with US police forces that need addressing.
 
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GatwickDepress

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Seems like these people want revenge and that killing is the best way to achieve this. Someone should tell them that not all cops have killed black people and that tarring everyone with the same brush isn't a good idea. It's also quite ironic that considerably more Blacks over there are killed by blacks, but the black lives matter hashtag us conveniently forgotten in those instances.

However, I should add that I'm not suggesting that the cops are blameless in this, there are issues with US police forces that need addressing.
I'm not sure how that's ironic. Black people generally live in communities with a high proportion of blacks and the poorer areas suffer from gang crime, so statistically of course there's going to be a high black-on-black homicide rate.
 

GMT

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Seems like these people want revenge and that killing is the best way to achieve this. Someone should tell them that not all cops have killed black people and that tarring everyone with the same brush isn't a good idea. It's also quite ironic that considerably more Blacks over there are killed by blacks, but the black lives matter hashtag us conveniently forgotten in those instances.

However, I should add that I'm not suggesting that the cops are blameless in this, there are issues with US police forces that need addressing.

I agree with you 100%. In addition, no issue can be solved if they don't drastically curb the circulation of guns. But over there the gun lobbies are too powerful and the mentality of some Americans is still far west style.
 

Harbornite

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I'm not sure how that's ironic. Black people generally live in communities with a high proportion of blacks and the poorer areas suffer from gang crime, so statistically of course there's going to be a high black-on-black homicide rate.

Well it is because black lives only seem to matter when they are killed by cops.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I agree with you 100%. In addition, no issue can be solved if they don't drastically curb the circulation of guns. But over there the gun lobbies are too powerful and the mentality of some Americans is still far west style.

Very true, but we may see a gradual change in America's stance on the matter.
 

Phil.

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Well it is because black lives only seem to matter when they are killed by cops.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Very true, but we may see a gradual change in America's stance on the matter.

All the time the N.R.A. are powerful and have powerful friends in congress you will never see a change. The U.S. mentality is that more guns will cure more guns. It's a rum society that sees sixteen year old girls being bought automatic rifles by their doting parents.
This video isn't a spoof, it's real!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhgagh4yz7g
 

Harbornite

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All the time the N.R.A. are powerful and have powerful friends in congress you will never see a change. The U.S. mentality is that more guns will cure more guns. It's a rum society that sees sixteen year old girls being bought automatic rifles by their doting parents.
This video isn't a spoof, it's real!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhgagh4yz7g

Indeed, I remember a recent incident in which a young girl (less than 10 YO) was given shooting lessons and she accidentally killed her instructor with an Uzi smg.
 

Tim R-T-C

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I agree with you 100%. In addition, no issue can be solved if they don't drastically curb the circulation of guns. But over there the gun lobbies are too powerful and the mentality of some Americans is still far west style.

Absolutely. There seems to be a paranoia amongst more than a small minority that the government are determined to impose martial law and confisgate people's weapons. There are people on social media quick to try and blame every recent gun massacre ( even this one in Dallas already) as an 'inside job' designed to allow the govt. to push through anti gun laws.

Unfortunately a lot of people on social media seem all too willing to believe what some people post and ignore mainstream media as being "in on it".
 

Harbornite

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From the BBC
Micah Johnson, the man accused of killing five police officers in a gun attack during a protest rally in Dallas, acted alone, officials believe.
"We believe now the city is safe," Mayor Mike Rawlings said.
Bomb-making material, rifles and a combat journal were found at the home of Johnson, who was himself killed.
The Dallas protest was against the killing of black men by police, and similar rallies drew thousands across many US cities on Friday.
The demonstrations followed the police killings of Philando Castile in Minnesota and Alton Sterling in Louisiana.

Dallas police chief David Brown and US Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson also said the gunman appeared to have acted alone, although Texas Governor Greg Abbott said police would "continue down every rabbit trail... ensuring that we eliminate any other possible suspects or co-conspirators".
Officials on Friday had spoken of a co-ordinated attack by at least one other sniper.


Johnson served in the US Army Reserve from 2009 to 2015, including a tour of Afghanistan
Three other suspects were arrested after the shootings but no details have been released about them.
A number of gun attacks involving police officers and civilians have occurred in other parts of the US in the aftermath of the deaths in Minnesota and Louisiana.
In Tennessee, a black army veteran killed a woman and also injured three other people, including a police officer, as he opened fire on a motorway on Thursday morning, before the Dallas attacks. After his arrest, Lakeem Keon Scott told investigators he was troubled by police violence against African-Americans
In Missouri on Friday, a police officer was shot from behind after he walked back to his patrol car to check the driving status of a black man who he had stopped. Antonio Taylor, 31, was later arrested but the motive for the shooting is unknown
In Georgia on Friday, an officer was shot after he responded to a call from a man who said his car had been broken into. Again the motive is unknown
Early on Saturday in Houston, police shot dead a man they said had pointed a gun at officers in a street. Tweets under the #Alvabraziel hashtag said he was black, with some suggesting he was shot 10 times and questioning whether he was armed
In the Georgian state capital, Atlanta, on Friday evening, thousands marched in protest at the recent police shootings but although roads were blocked off the demonstration remained peaceful.

Protests against police killings were also held in other cities including Houston, New Orleans and San Francisco. In Baton Rouge, Louisiana, protesters chanted "no justice, no peace, no racist police".
There have been some arrests at the rallies, but again they were peaceful.
A mass protest blocked roads in Atlanta, Georgia, but was peaceful, 8 July
Image caption
A mass protest blocked roads in Atlanta, Georgia, but was peaceful
Leaders of the Black Lives Matter organisation have condemned the Dallas killings but say planned marches, including a "Weekend of Rage" in Philadelphia, will go ahead.
A Black Lives Matter march was also held in London on Friday.
In Dallas, Mayor Rawlings addressed thousands at a vigil to honour the police officers, urging Americans to "step up" to heal the nation's racial wounds.
'Wanted to kill whites'
Police in Dallas said the bomb-making material was found when they searched the home in the suburb of Mesquite where Micah Johnson lived with his mother.
Johnson was killed by remotely detonated explosives that were sent into a car park where he had taken refuge after the shootings.

The house of Micah Johnson was searched by police on Friday
Mr Rawlings said the suspect had been given a choice of "surrendering without harm or remaining in place", adding that he chose "the latter".
Johnson, a member of the US Army Reserve from 2009 to 2015 who had served in Afghanistan, had no criminal history.
But it has emerged that he was accused by a female soldier of sexual harassment in Afghanistan and was sent home. A lawyer said Johnson was to be removed from the army in September 2014 but was instead given an honourable discharge in May 2015.

Chief Brown said the suspect had told a negotiator that he had wanted to kill white people, especially white police officers, because he was angry about the recent shootings of black men by police.
Two civilians were also injured.

President Barack Obama, who is attending a Nato summit in Poland, called the Dallas killings a "vicious, calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement".
He ordered all flags on public buildings to be flown at half-mast.
Mr Obama will visit Dallas early next week, cutting short the Spanish part of his European trip, the White House said.

The Dallas attack marks the deadliest day for US law enforcement officers since the 9/11 attacks in 2001.
Reacting to the latest shootings, presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton said: "There is too much violence, too much hate, too much senseless killing, too many people dead who shouldn't be. No-one has all the answers. We have to find them together."
Meanwhile, her Republican opponent Donald Trump said in a video the shooting in Dallas "has shaken the soul of our nation".
He added: "The deaths of Alton Sterling in Louisiana and Philando Castille in Minnesota also make clear how much more work we have to do to make every American feel that their safety is protected."

Philando Castile was shot dead after being stopped in his car by police in St Paul, Minnesota , on Wednesday. Alton Sterling was killed by police a day earlier in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Both incidents were captured on video, reigniting what has become a national debate.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36752603


Sad times for the USA. In this particular instance, I don't think Donald Trump's comments are inappropriate.
 

Trog

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That's interesting. The idea that black people, and presumably young black males more thanj most, are likely to be tooled up and prepared to use whatever weapon they might have is probably a deeply rooted one with all police officers, regardless of their own colour.

I wonder how much of this is influenced by reality?

Quote by the Rev Jesse Jackson....

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

Sadly suggests that the fear that black people mean trouble is wide spread in American society.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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Quote by the Rev Jesse Jackson....

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

Sadly suggests that the fear that black people mean trouble is wide spread in American society.

The fact that a man such as Jackson said this is deeply troubling, and suggests a far greater cultural problem than simply racist cops. Nevertheless, the two individuals whose deaths sparked this latest focus on the issues were not apparently breaking any laws at the time of their killing. I personally believe that had the two men been Caucasian, they would probably still be alive today. Why that might be the case requires greater minds than mine to determine.
 
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