Recent DRS new loco tender result for new Class 93 locos

[Peter Mugridge]

It's enough for IETs and bimodes seem to make the DfT happy. And winning the franchise is top in first groups priority.

Didn't First say last month when they won the West Coast that they wouldn't be bidding for any more franchises for the time being?

That seems to me to lower the chances of 93s appearing in this context, although of course any group tendering for the franchise will be aware that the present Night Riviera haulage is getting a bit long in the tooth.

 

[hwl]

Didn't First say last month when they won the West Coast that they wouldn't be bidding for any more franchises for the time being?

That seems to me to lower the chances of 93s appearing in this context, although of course any group tendering for the franchise will be aware that the present Night Riviera haulage is getting a bit long in the tooth.

GWR isn't coming up for refranchising in "the time being"!

Much cheaper to make DB an offer for some 67s

 

[pdeaves]

Didn't First say last month when they won the West Coast that they wouldn't be bidding for any more franchises for the time being?

It was more that they wouldn't bid under current requirements (i.e. if DfT changes its tune, First may bid), rather than not at all.

 

[ABB125]

Apologies if I've missed it, but I haven't seen anywhere in the last few pages of the thread stating that DRS have ordered any class 93s; most of the content seems to be about ROG. I don't recall seeing anything in the railway press either. If DRS have indeed ordered some class 93s, could someone please point me in the direction of a press release or news article?

 

[hexagon789]

The battery isn't that big and so not much use over a long journey.
The extra power is useful when making up time is needed.

Trimode locos won't be cheap but the 57s are. Could easily be a 4-5 fold cost difference.

Fair enough, it just seems a waste running on diesel under the wires like that.

Class 57/6 is 2,750hp at the crankshaft AIUI.

The electric section, depending on route, may only be Paddington to Newbury. Only another 250+ miles to go!

Train supply is maximum of around 350hp. How long do the batteries last on a charge? Probably about 10mins at full power. Going to be a struggle over Rattery and Dainton.

Essentially if it ever goes over to bi-modern locos, it needs about double the power on diesel then

 

[ExRes]

Apologies if I've missed it, but I haven't seen anywhere in the last few pages of the thread stating that DRS have ordered any class 93s; most of the content seems to be about ROG. I don't recall seeing anything in the railway press either. If DRS have indeed ordered some class 93s, could someone please point me in the direction of a press release or news article?

Exactly what I was thinking, all I recall is that the tender would be for 10 mixed traffic diesel-electric locomotives to be introduced in the 3rd quarter of 2019, so not much chance there ... a year ago Rail reported that the contract was expected to be awarded in March 2019 primarily for freight and nuclear traffic, so not much chance there either ...

 

[Energy]

GWR isn't coming up for refranchising in "the time being"!

Much cheaper to make DB an offer for some 67s

The current franchise is ending in March 2020 and I think First Group want to keep it as they already run it. If I remember correctly it also makes them quite a bit of money. However they probably don't want new franchises.
My guess is that if they want to replace the 57s and send them back to porterbrook they will have a couple year lease for 67s with DB and if they get the next franchise then 93s for a longer lease.

 

[hwl]

The current franchise is ending in March 2020 and I think First Group want to keep it as they already run it. If I remember correctly it also makes them quite a bit of money. However they probably don't want new franchises.
My guess is that if they want to replace the 57s and send them back to porterbrook they will have a couple year lease for 67s with DB and if they get the next franchise then 93s for a longer lease.

It will be a(nother) direct award from March hence don't expect much to change in the short term.

 

[43096]

The current franchise is ending in March 2020 and I think First Group want to keep it as they already run it. If I remember correctly it also makes them quite a bit of money. However they probably don't want new franchises.
My guess is that if they want to replace the 57s and send them back to porterbrook they will have a couple year lease for 67s with DB and if they get the next franchise then 93s for a longer lease.

People still dribbling about 93s for the Sleeper? Deary me. This has been done to death - it just would not work.

 

[Energy]

People still dribbling about 93s for the Sleeper? Deary me. This has been done to death - it just would not work.

maybe not 93s but i think the sleeper will get some different locomotives, maybe 67s. Or they may just decide there is no financial incentive...

 

[Photohunter71]

Exactly what I was thinking, all I recall is that the tender would be for 10 mixed traffic diesel-electric locomotives to be introduced in the 3rd quarter of 2019, so not much chance there ... a year ago Rail reported that the contract was expected to be awarded in March 2019 primarily for freight and nuclear traffic, so not much chance there either ...

Yes, correct. They were going to tender for 10 mixed traffic diesel locomotives. News of which has not been forthcoming. It begs the question,was it finacially viable, or as someone else suggested, a public company so getting a civil servant to sign off the tender might be a difficult ask. Or are there any other reasons?

 

[DarloRich]

why not email DRS and ask them what the status of the tender is?

 

[Photohunter71]

Smart A**e!!

 

[ExRes]

Yes, correct. They were going to tender for 10 mixed traffic diesel locomotives. News of which has not been forthcoming. It begs the question,was it finacially viable, or as someone else suggested, a public company so getting a civil servant to sign off the tender might be a difficult ask. Or are there any other reasons?

I've no idea how knowledgeable these two publications are but both Railcolor News (Sept 2017) and International Railway Journal (Sept 2017) reported that DRS had published a prior information notice in the Office Journal of the European Union for a contract to supply 10 new mixed-traffic diesel-electric locomotives with a maximum contract value of £53m excluding VAT, doubtless they both took the information from the same source so any misunderstandings would be duplicated, but diesel-electric is what they say

 

[themiller]

As I understand it, DRS have been having a review of their traction policy and are going to retire their older locos in a phased rundown. This was reported in the railway press some months ago. I’d expect that any order would have been after the completion of that review and after the NDA signed off the plan. This means that it may not have been placed yet.

 

[Tio Terry]

I've no idea how knowledgeable these two publications are but both Railcolor News (Sept 2017) and International Railway Journal (Sept 2017) reported that DRS had published a prior information notice in the Office Journal of the European Union for a contract to supply 10 new mixed-traffic diesel-electric locomotives with a maximum contract value of £53m excluding VAT, doubtless they both took the information from the same source so any misunderstandings would be duplicated, but diesel-electric is what they say

That would not appear to fit in with the governments environmental plans in terms of going carbon neutral. But then, maybe the DfT and Environmental Dept don’t talk to each other, seems that way when electrification schemes are curtailed or cancelled in favour of bi-modes.

 

[Energy]

DRS will be wanting to retire it's class 37s as they are rather old. The 57s are also old, excluding the conversion in 1998, they, and the 37s, were built in the 60s.
And most of the 68s are subleased to other operators with DRS only having 12 of the 34 not subleased. And the number subleased looks to rise as other operators are interested in Chiltern and TPEs operations with them.

 

[ExRes]

I've just found the Rail Magazine report from 20th August regarding the withdrawal of the 'heritage' fleet, and before anyone comes out with the old Liar Magazine chestnut, it's in regard to an interview given to the magazine by Debbie Francis where the following paragraph exists

"DRS has also been going through a procurement process for the purchase (rather than lease) of ten locomotives with the same specification to its Class 68s. These will be deployed on general freight work. By virtue of being a subsidiary of the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority, public procurement rules have made the process protracted, but DRS will shortly seek best and final offers from bidders"

So there you have it, probably ......

 

[Photohunter71]

I've just found the Rail Magazine report from 20th August regarding the withdrawal of the 'heritage' fleet, and before anyone comes out with the old Liar Magazine chestnut, it's in regard to an interview given to the magazine by Debbie Francis where the following paragraph exists

"DRS has also been going through a procurement process for the purchase (rather than lease) of ten locomotives with the same specification to its Class 68s. These will be deployed on general freight work. By virtue of being a subsidiary of the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority, public procurement rules have made the process protracted, but DRS will shortly seek best and final offers from bidders"

So there you have it, probably ......

Thanks for the post! At last a bit of clarity. So it was as someone had previously mentioned with regard to going through public procurement rules. I wonder how many bidders there were, and my feelings are still a further batch of class 68's ,albeit a sub class which will be emissions rules compliant.

 

[BRX]

class 68's ,albeit a sub class which will be emissions rules compliant.

Is that now considered feasible?

 

[Photohunter71]

Is that now considered feasible?

It may well be possible. No-one has seen any designs for a new bodyshell etc, so a sub class 68 is my assumption.

 

[ac6000cw]

Is that now considered feasible?

I *think* that Stadler (a while back) were indicating that it might be possible - the problem is finding space for the SCR exhaust treatment equipment.

Stadler are fitting a Euro IIIb emissions spec C175-16 engine into the latest Co-Co Eurodual locos, but I haven't seen any diagrams of the internal layout of those.

 

[Milo T.K]

Are there even any images of the real locomotive

 

[Peter Sarf]

Gone quiet, any news on this subject ?.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Gone quiet, any news on this subject ?.

Not that I know off. I am sure that when something comes out from a reliable source someone will post it.

 

[gsnedders]

Gone quiet, any news on this subject ?.

Given no order was announced I'd assume no order was placed following any response they got to the tender…

 

[squizzler]

Don't forget that these locos will be built in Stadler's Spanish plant, and I don't suppose there are very many people coming into the drawing offices and engineering shops of Valencia right now (unless someone in the know can say otherwise).

 

[captainbigun]

Don't forget that these locos will be built in Stadler's Spanish plant, and I don't suppose there are very many people coming into the drawing offices and engineering shops of Valencia right now (unless someone in the know can say otherwise).

They will be built?

That requires an order, which doesn't exist, and I'd say any business case, which was marginal anyway, is definitely in the shredder now.

 

[Energy]

They will be built?

That requires an order, which doesn't exist, and I'd say any business case, which was marginal anyway, is definitely in the shredder now.

Didn't ROG order some?

 

[ExRes]

Didn't ROG order some?

There was never any available evidence that an order had actually been placed and certainly no announcement from ROG themselves