Redcar British Steel to stop being served to speed up journey times

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xotGD

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Teesside is indeed blessed in having two pointless railway stations. Just a pity that Cargo Fleet isn't still with us, then there would be three.

Perhaps a one-for-one policy could be introduced? If you want to close a station, open another one in a better location first.
 
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Teesside is indeed blessed in having two pointless railway stations. Just a pity that Cargo Fleet isn't still with us, then there would be three.

Perhaps a one-for-one policy could be introduced? If you want to close a station, open another one in a better location first.

Assuming such a location exists and can timetable. Don't assume just because a station in one spot worked with the timetable doesn't mean it will work elsewhere - even only a few yards up the line.
 

Tetchytyke

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But should there not be a process for mothballing a station, which would allow it not to be served

Perhaps, but then look at what they did to the Croxley Green branch because "operational convenience" meant they didn't build a bridge over the new road.
 

DarloRich

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But should there not be a process for mothballing a station, which would allow it not to be served (like these two) but would require maintenance of the infrastructure for reopening within a defined period and allow all derogations from regulations it previously had to remain in existence?

This should clearly have safeguards, but not as strong as an outright closure.

After all, they could just Parly it...

They should just close it. Many years will pass until the site is remediated and developed
 

bluenoxid

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And then the developer or local council will face a multi million pound reopening bill because the infrastructure needs to be upgraded to the latest standards and the timetable has quietly lost/forgot them.
 

Kite159

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A joke service I came up with was something weekly running ECS from Saltburn to Redcar British Steel where it would run non-stop to Tees-Side Airport, and then ECS to Darlington.

Nobody would be allowed to board the train at RBS as they won't be able to access the site so a pointless service which will serve two pointless stations
 

Bletchleyite

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Such a service being a solitary one would surely not disrupt the required "speeding up" suggested on all the other services. Clifton on the Manchester to Bolton line is ample to quote.

I genuinely don't understand why Clifton doesn't get a proper service. Particularly now there is significant new housing development near it.
 

Hadders

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Agreed - but the experts here insisted IBM was a one off/special case/ insert excuse for failing to follow statutory process and that it was nothing to worry about.........

Disagree. Follow the procedure and close them. The fact that the procedure doesnt give you carte blanche to do as you wish is not an excuse.

No-one will shed any tears over Redcar British Steel however I agree with both of the above posts. There is a closure procedure for a reason - either go through the procedure or retain a parliamentary service. My concern over the mothballing is which station will be next, maybe somewhere in a dilapidated state that needs a lot money spending on it? They can give all the assurances in the world but the closure procedure exists for a reason, if they want to close a station then they should follow it.
 

Meerkat

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There is a closure procedure for a reason

That may be true but it doesn’t mean the closure process is fit for purpose.
There are far too many ridiculous stations that are only open because it is preposterously difficult to close them.
 

Hadders

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That may be true but it doesn’t mean the closure process is fit for purpose.
There are far too many ridiculous stations that are only open because it is preposterously difficult to close them.

Then change the closure process after the appropriate consultation etc. but bear in mind that it should be difficult to close a station otherwise a 'here today gone tomorrow' train company could seek to run down a service, claim there's no demand and then hey-presto the station can be closed.

What we have here is the station closure equivalent of 'penalty fakes'. TOCs should not be able to ride roughshod over the closure procedures.
 

Meerkat

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Why would a rail company want to shut a station unless it was pointless, bearing in mind they will have service specs as part of their franchise.
 

Kingspanner

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Why would a rail company want to shut a station unless it was pointless, bearing in mind they will have service specs as part of their franchise.
Because of the perverse behaviours which are the unintended consequence of target setting. We could have an entire thread on this....
Everyone thinks trains should run on time don't they? How can we tell? Easy, set a target for punctuality and report how well the TOCs meet it.Punish them if they don't.
Before you know it you have station skipping, padded schedules, and bloated delay attribution structures all of which are entirely rational from the TOCs point of view. Closing or reducing services even when a station is profitable can make complete sense if it helps pad the timetable.
 

bluenoxid

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That is the last place that I would look for current travel information. Try and see what the latest Northern timetable covering Manchester to Bolton has to say about the current service frequency to and from Clifton station or refer to the BR Times website.

Are you talking about Breich or Clifton? Reading post 44 onwards suggests the conversation was about Breich.
 

duffield

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As per other posters, I'm a bit concerned about the 'slippery slope' and 'precedent' issues. However, I think the important issue is perhaps *legal* precedent. If no one has challenged these 'indefinite suspensions' in the courts as being tantamount to closure, no precedent has been set legally; and that leaves the option open for a legal challenge if a station that people actually use is 'suspended indefinitely'; such a legal challenge could maybe at least force basic maintenance to be undertaken and suspension to be subject to periodic review, to prove that it was not 'closure by stealth', or for a parliamentary service to be maintained. These options would presumably at least allow the station to be properly re-opened in future without possibly prohibitively expensive upgrades to modern standards. Alternatively the proper closure procedure would have to be followed.
 

DarloRich

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As per other posters, I'm a bit concerned about the 'slippery slope' and 'precedent' issues. However, I think the important issue is perhaps *legal* precedent. If no one has challenged these 'indefinite suspensions' in the courts as being tantamount to closure, no precedent has been set legally; and that leaves the option open for a legal challenge if a station that people actually use is 'suspended indefinitely'; such a legal challenge could maybe at least force basic maintenance to be undertaken and suspension to be subject to periodic review, to prove that it was not 'closure by stealth', or for a parliamentary service to be maintained. These options would presumably at least allow the station to be properly re-opened in future without possibly prohibitively expensive upgrades to modern standards. Alternatively the proper closure procedure would have to be followed.

Mark your cheque for about £50k to HMCS...........
no one will challenge. We know that. The tocs know that.

I said this would happen. You all said it wouldnt. Where next?
 

duffield

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Mark your cheque for about £50k to HMCS...........
no one will challenge. We know that. The tocs know that.

I said this would happen. You all said it wouldnt. Where next?

I'm not implying that anyone will challenge this particular 'suspension'; I'm saying that the fact that no-one challenges this case sets no *legal* precedent for future cases which might well be challenged in court.** Also, if any attempt is made to 'try it on' with a station which people *actually* use, it's possible that a suitably worded legal letter might be enough to prevent it, a full-scale court case might not be necessary if they know they're on very shaky legal ground.

Anyhow, for the avoidance of doubt, I think this is a *very bad* thing, and that any 'suspension', if allowed at all *should* be only for a defined period, subject to review, and subject to a basic maintenance regime.

** I am not a lawyer but I understand that the defence that 'someone else did this somewhere else and was not challenged/prosecuted/sued' would have no legal weight, e.g. you can't get off for speeding because 'people do it all the time' or in a civil case, you can't be excused a debt on the grounds that other people's debts have not been pursued. It would probably only be relevant in a *specific* case, e.g. attempting to challenge the suspension of service to IBM halt after 20 years.
 
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