Redhill Station - Extra Platform

[Astonished]

Can I amplify infobleep's point about this? People missing their train has bad enough consequences, but anything that systematically causes mass rushing on stairs will, sooner or later and repeatedly, be the cause of accidents with injuries, and perhaps worse. How many passengers are not going to rush if a platform change is announced within a few minutes before the expected arrival time (or after it), some of them having to cover the whole length of a rainy 12-car platform before they even get to the first set of subway stairs?

 

[zoneking]

I've noticed that trains from Reading terminating at Redhill, are going to platform 1a, not 1b, which is far more convenient (1b). Does anyone know why that is? The guard said it was because of the new platform 0, but didn't say why.

 

[JonathanH]

I've noticed that trains from Reading terminating at Redhill, are going to platform 1a, not 1b, which is far more convenient. Does anyone know why that is? The guard said it was because of the new platform 0, but didn't say why.

It allows platform 1a to still be used if the train breaks down or for whatever other reason can't vacate the platform.

 

[DelW]

I've noticed that trains from Reading terminating at Redhill, are going to platform 1a, not 1b, which is far more convenient. Does anyone know why that is? The guard said it was because of the new platform 0, but didn't say why.

It wasn't unknown before platform 0 was built. On one occasion (admittedly after a few beers in the Home Cottage), I missed a Guildford bound train because I got to the top of the stairs with a few minutes to spare and waited there, only for the train to accelerate past me having been in platform 1A all the time. Platform 1B was pretty busy which didn't help.

 

[MarkyT]

It allows platform 1a to still be used if the train breaks down or for whatever other reason can't vacate the platform.

I believe when Reading - Gatwick goes 2tph, the idea is that one of the fasts will catch up the preceding stopper and reverse behind it in southernmost part of #1 during the stopper's terminus layover. The stopper must be parked up at the north end buffer stops to make room for this. There could also be a mirror of this in the other direction where a Guildford bound fast could also reverse in the southern half of #1 and set off in front of the next stopper.

 

[JonathanH]

I believe when Reading - Gatwick goes 2tph, the idea is that one of the fasts will catch up the preceding stopper and reverse behind it in southernmost part of #1 during the stopper's terminus layover. The stopper must be parked up at the north end buffer stops to make room for this. There could also be a mirror of this in the other direction where a Guildford bound fast could also reverse in the southern half of #1 and set off in front of the next stopper.

Yes, but that will be a completely different timetable from now - the preliminary information on RTT suggests that the stopper is in and out of Redhill between Gatwicks reversing there - the Reading to Gatwick trains in each direction both reverse at Redhill at about the same time.

 

[Deepgreen]

I've just come back from a trip via Redhill and the North Downs line slow train went right to the London end of platform 1 in the pouring rain - not impressed! It doesn't matter what any new timetable might entail, currently it means an unnecessary walk in the open from and, worse, to, the trains, especially bad for interchanging passengers. Passengers come last again!

 

[Astonished]

I have sympathy for you - and even more (due to the larger number of them) for people affected by last moment platform changes 2>0 or 0>2. I only use the station about once a week, at random times of day, but I think about 7 out of 10 times since Plat.0 opened, this happens. It doesn't bother me personally as I've learned to stay near the subway and watch for signalling or online clues, but others waiting at the north end of platforms have to dash back, luggage and all, and it adds 2 minutes' lateness to the train having to wait for them - I don't know if they all make it. On most of these occasions there was no apparent reason not to stick with the original platform, which was empty, leaving me with the impression that sticking to timetabled platform assignments is not an operational objective.

 

[Sunset route]

Platform 0 has got to be the most expensive underused piece of new infrastructure going, just hope with the new GTR timetable that it is actually used and by a regular services.

 

[Deepgreen]

Also noticed the following concerning platform 0 :

1. Workmen were painting or repainting (already?!) the stair risers at the platform entrance (in pouring rain with water all over the stairs!) today - why??
2. The canopy at the south end of the platform is much narrower than the rest, to the extent that half the platform there gets soaked in rain - just by the stairs! Again - why (the whole of the rest of the canopy is full-width)? The throw from the southern end point-work is nowhere near the canopy section.
3. There are small signs at the first landing on the entrance stairs saying "Down to Subway" with Braille beneath. For consistency, why no signs for 'Up to Platform'?! Once on the stairs, how could anyone assume anything else other than it leads to the subway/way out?!
4. The London end curtailment of platform 1 has been much discussed, but it really stood out to me how foolish it has been not to continue this as a loop - the overlaps haven't changed and the argument that 12 car trains might accidentally be routed into platform 1 really isn't good enough to forego the extra flexibility of another 8/10 car through platform. They really should not be designing these schemes to accommodate signallers' errors rather than to maximise usefulness!
5. Not directly pertaining to platform 0, but, four years after I had been told by Southern that new platform train indicators were about to be installed at Redhill, they finally have been! After this huge delay we, at last, have train length information shown. However, the information screen in the waiting room on platform 1/2 was blank except for the time - shown as GMT!

I no longer commute through Redhill, thank goodness.

 

[Sunset route]

I take umbrage with your point No4 as the signallers and their staff reps fought very hard to retain platform 1 as a through platform, but were overruled by the scheme sponsors.

 

[Astonished]

Forgive me: what is a scheme sponsor? And who or what entity in the case of this particular investment decision?

 

[Deepgreen]

I take umbrage with your point No4 as the signallers and their staff reps fought very hard to retain platform 1 as a through platform, but were overruled by the scheme sponsors.

Don't take umbrage - I know you did, and it's not your fault. The excuse given by NR/sponsors at the time of design was to minimise possible delay owing to potential signaller errors. As I said, this is not a valid reason for a design solution!

Oh, and another small but important point - the 4 car stopping mark is far too far north on platform zero, meaning that, again, passengers have to walk/run an unnecessary distance to reach the train.

 

[swt_passenger]

Forgive me: what is a scheme sponsor? And who or what entity in the case of this particular investment decision?

The organisation with the money. Probably the DFT via the control period 5 high level output specification, aka CP5 HLOS (without checking).

 

[Deepgreen]

Just looking at the photos I took today, I see that the exit from the new up loop north of platform zero appears to be controlled by a shunt signal - is it not unusual for a passenger-carrying route to be controlled in this way?

 

[JonathanH]

Platform 0 has got to be the most expensive underused piece of new infrastructure going, just hope with the new GTR timetable that it is actually used and by a regular services.

There is clearly a preference not to use Platform 0 at the moment and that makes sense. On a Sunday, nothing is booked out of platform 0 to save a dispatcher from having to be deployed from it.

However, it does seem like it will be used in the new timetable as Reigate / Gatwick to Victoria trains will join there whilst Platform 1 is used by a Turbo and Platform 2 is used by a Thameslink service to go to London in front of it. Also, the change that it enabled for platform 2 to be used more readily southbound appears to come in helpful.

 

[swt_passenger]

Just looking at the photos I took today, I see that the exit from the new up loop north of platform zero appears to be controlled by a shunt signal - is it not unusual for a passenger-carrying route to be controlled in this way?

Is it to gain access to a siding? In this case the straight on route beyond the crossover to the up line?

 

[Minstral25]

There is clearly a preference not to use Platform 0 at the moment and that makes sense. On a Sunday, nothing is booked out of platform 0 to save a dispatcher from having to be deployed from it.

However, it does seem like it will be used in the new timetable as Reigate / Gatwick to Victoria trains will join there whilst Platform 1 is used by a Turbo and Platform 2 is used by a Thameslink service to go to London in front of it. Also, the change that it enabled for platform 2 to be used more readily southbound appears to come in helpful.

The new timetable plan was that all northbound Thameslink trains and the Reigate (only) to Victoria services use platform 2.

The exception are the morning Reigate to Victoria trains that have a portion coming from Gatwick. The Gatwick portion would arrive at platform 0 and the Reigate portion come in behind. Some afternoon trains will do the same to collect extra coaches for return services from Victoria that split at Redhill.

Tonbridge trains will use platform 1A most of the day. GWR will use platform 0 mostly and also 1 or 2 on occasion

 

[Sunset route]

Just looking at the photos I took today, I see that the exit from the new up loop north of platform zero appears to be controlled by a shunt signal - is it not unusual for a passenger-carrying route to be controlled in this way?

Wrong quote

 

[Sunset route]

Just looking at the photos I took today, I see that the exit from the new up loop north of platform zero appears to be controlled by a shunt signal - is it not unusual for a passenger-carrying route to be controlled in this way?

Not quite, for normal signalled movements the route is set T482 up to T480 and T1308 will clear automatically as running dummy. But if you have a ballast or freight train that requires a run round then you would set a route from T482 up to T1308 PLS and T482 subsidiary signal will clear instead of the main aspect to allow the train to draw forward and not block the south end Junction. Once the engine has detached a route can now be set from T1308 PSL up to T1306 PLS which acts as a limit of shunt in the up direction on the Down Redhill Line as so the engine can perform the run round. The route back will be from T1305 PLS which in normal use is also a running dummy for the route from T479 to T481 signals on the down Redhill line.

 

[DelW]

I've just come back from a trip via Redhill and the North Downs line slow train went right to the London end of platform 1 in the pouring rain - not impressed! It doesn't matter what any new timetable might entail, currently it means an unnecessary walk in the open from and, worse, to, the trains, especially bad for interchanging passengers. Passengers come last again!

In my admittedly limited experience with the new layout, GWR North Downs trains seem often to run right up to the London end of p1. Disembarking from a terminating train there last week, a lot of passengers were waiting down near the subway where the platform PIS was only showing the Reading departure (my train returning there), apparently having not realised that the unit was already there but right up at the London end. I suspect occasional passengers aren't aware of the 1a / 1b distinction, as NDL trains normally used to reverse at the southern end of the platform.

 

[Astonished]

Adding the above discussions to my own experiences, I feel Redhill has become a textbook case of an enterprise that is focused on achieving objectives defined in terms of train movements, and it has been forgotten what the purpose of the new infrastructure is: to improve people's journeys. It's a backwards step though if the system doesn't marshall people to the right place to catch their train, in a calm and informed way, preferably before it arrives, and certainly when it has done.

 

[Deepgreen]

Not quite, for normal signalled movements the route is set T482 up to T480 and T1308 will clear automatically as running dummy. But if you have a ballast or freight train that requires a run round then you would set a route from T482 up to T1308 PLS and T482 subsidiary signal will clear instead of the main aspect to allow the train to draw forward and not block the south end Junction. Once the engine has detached a route can now be set from T1308 PSL up to T1306 PLS which acts as a limit of shunt in the up direction on the Down Redhill Line as so the engine can perform the run round. The route back will be from T1305 PLS which in normal use is also a running dummy for the route from T479 to T481 signals on the down Redhill line.

Thanks for that.

 

[infobleep]

The following eventually relates to the Redhill platform.

This morning the the 6.29 Haywards Heath to Bedford departed Haywards Heath 3 minutes late.

The 6.32 to London Bridge service, which arroves into Haywards Heath first but departs second, did leave on time at 6.32 but being a two track railway, one of the two would have had to wait just north of the station.

All of this delayed the 6.34 to Victoira by 2 minutes. That joins up with another train at Three Bridges. It was only 2 minutes late departing there but 4 minutes late departing Gatwick Airport.

This caused the Gatwick Airport to Reading train to depart 2 minutes late.

Now the 6.41 Haywards Heath to Bedford service did depart on time. It also departed Gatick Airport on time at 7.00, this being the time at which the Gatwick Airport to Reading train had left. Now the Bedford train uses the fast up but has to divert to the slow up as it stops at Redhill.

Due to the delayed 6.34, they diverted the Bedford train to platform 0 at Redhill. This did seem to be a late announcement too but there was already a lot of people on platform 0 so maybe something verbal had been said earlier over the tannoy. The depature board certainly didn't update until the last minute.

This then caused a further delay to the Gatwick Airport to Reading service as the Bedford service had to cross it's path. That train eventually left Redhill 8 minutes late!

I don't know what effect holding the Bedford train would have had elsewhere on its journey but I can only assume they felt it would affect too many other trains.

The Gatwick Airport train is unlikely to hold up the 7.45 Guildford to Waterloo but be interesting to see how it interacts with the 7.53 Guildford to Waterloo.

All because the Bedford train had to cross it's path into platform 0 first.

 

[infobleep]

So the Reading train arrives into Guildford 8 minutes late and the 7.53 Guildford to Waterloo departed 3 minutes late, having been on time at Godalming.

The Reading to Gatwick Airport train, i.e. the return service, will also of course be late. Perhaps they will terminate it short at Redhill it if gets too delayed.

 

[otomous]

So the Reading train arrives into Guildford 8 minutes late and the 7.53 Guildford to Waterloo departed 3 minutes late, having been on time at Godalming.

The Reading to Gatwick Airport train, i.e. the return service, will also of course be late. Perhaps they will terminate it short at Redhill it if gets too delayed.

Congratulations, you have demonstrated the nightmare job of running a railway. I’d sooner be stuck with out there with my train all day than work in Control!

 

[RichJF]

Today is an interesting test at Redhill. Platform 3 closed due to a track circuit failure.
All n/bound through 0, all s/bound through 2. Will be interesting to see how the single junction at the sound end copes!

 

[infobleep]

How did Redhill cope on the 5th April?

I see that there was a safety issue with platform 0 today, so it was closed for time and trains were using other platforms. Although it was only listed as affecting Southern branded trains, I'd be amazed if it wasn't affecting Great Western Railway services too.

When I started to type this, it was on going but it's since been fixed. However there are other issues, as briefly mentioned on the service indicator page, are no longer minor but major, so delays are even worse. That's nothing to do with platform 0 though.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/189087.aspx

Safety problems on platform zero are causing delays to journeys through the station. Services are expected to be delayed by up to 5 minutes until the end of service.

Customer Advice:
Trains which normally arrive and leave on platform zero at Redhill station will instead arrive and leave from platform 2.

Please ensure you listen for announcements and check the information screens for any further platform alterations.

How is this currently affecting the train service?
Trains are unable to use platform zero at Redhill Station. Instead, alternative platforms will be used, however some delays may occur through the area whilst services wait for these alternative platforms to become available.

Can you tell me more about the incident?
Southern are working closely with Network Rail who have closed platform for safety reasons. Engineers will be investigating the problem and will work to reopen the platform as soon as possible.

 

[sarahj]

How did Redhill cope on the 5th April?

I see that there was a safety issue with platform 0 today, so it was closed for time and trains were using other platforms. Although it was only listed as affecting Southern branded trains, I'd be amazed if it wasn't affecting Great Western Railway services too.

When I started to type this, it was on going but it's since been fixed. However there are other issues, as briefly mentioned on the service indicator page, are no longer minor but major, so delays are even worse. That's nothing to do with platform 0 though.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/189087.aspx

When you find out what it was that forced it's closure!!!!. Meanwhile TSF's all around the area then caused delays and over crowding and a special passenger then got distressed and then went missing. Meanwhile someone with issues was at South Croydon.
Anyway, I still think platform 1 should have had a up connection.