Redoubling Cambridge to Chippenham Junction (Newmarket)

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Tobbes, 29 Jul 2018.

  1. VagueShot

    VagueShot New Member

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    I know Newmarket well, as I used to live there. The racing industry won't like the extra noise of more trains going through the town.
     
  2. camflyer

    camflyer Member

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    As a rule, the racing industry in Newmarket don't like anything that doesn't directly involve horse racing. While racing is important to the town's economy they need to understand that it isn't the only thing.
     
  3. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    I seem to remember that the platforms (only one now in use) at Newmarket are quite long, from the days when most of the punters arrived by special trains.
     
  4. Neen Sollars

    Neen Sollars Member

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  5. ac6000cw

    ac6000cw Established Member

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    What - a track layout with seven switches (points) to maintain just for a wayside station with two platforms?

    A Penryn-style passing loop/platform arrangement (using just two switches) is far more likely.
     
  6. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Fine for Penryn, basically a near self-contained branch line.

    Not fine for Newmarket if EWR is to move it towards being a main line railway, with speeds to match.

    Railfuture need to understand the difference.



    (To be honest, if space really were a constraint there, you'd be just as well keeping the single line through the tunnel/platform, then re-commencing the double track immediately west of the platform. These Heath Robinson arrangements will add very little operational flexibility for the track layout complexity they introduce).
     
  7. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    Space certainly is a constraint (for Newmarket). To fit a second track, without moving the existing line, would require land take from a development completed following railway land disposal.

    And who knows what EWR will bring? In an ideal world (sadly not the one we live in) there would be a provision for intermodal freight.
     
  8. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Quite right - EWR is all about interregional express services, and it needs to be as easy to electrify as possible.
     
  9. camflyer

    camflyer Member

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    Plans for the Eastern section

    https://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/wp-...st-Rail-Eastern-Section-Rail-Prospectus-3.pdf

    Medium term (at opening of Central Section)
    • Direct half-hourly passenger rail service between Ipswich, Bury St Edmunds, Newmarket and Cambridge.
    • Direct half-hourly passenger rail service between Norwich, Wymondham, Attleborough, Thetford and Cambridge.
    • Potential for alternate hourly East West services to serve Ipswich and Norwich (i.e. two hourly through services from each location
    Long-term (post-Central Section)
    • Direct hourly service between Ipswich, Bedford, Milton Keynes and Oxford, achieving a journey time of 120 minutes.
    • Direct hourly service between Norwich, Bedford, Milton Keynes and Oxford, achieving a journey time of 120 minutes.
    • Improved journey times between Ipswich and Cambridge and between Norwich and Cambridge. Achieving a rail journey time of under 60 minutes.
    • A rail route through to Oxford and beyond that is attractive for freight.
     
  10. ac6000cw

    ac6000cw Established Member

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    ...so you keep it single-track to minimise the electrification costs then? ;)

    But seriously, the flat junction conflicts at either end of the Coldhams Lane Junction to Chippenham Junction line and the traffic levels on the connecting lines are likely to be bigger problems to solve than adding a few miles of extra track in the middle i.e. extending the Dullingham loop substantially. Adding a west to north curve east of Newmarket will also make the junction conflict problems worse (as you've added two more junctions).
     
  11. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Fair.... but no. ;)

    Yes, I'm not sighted on how that gets solved, but a 2tph <60 min Ips-Cambs service as the EWR East publication suggests looks and feel about right. How would you / @Bald Rick / @ChiefPlanner meet that service level and performance goal?
     
  12. 47421

    47421 Member

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    Fair play to those local authorities pitching their ideas for lots of through services to Norwich and Ipswich, but the reality today is that the enhanced hourly service promised by GA from May 2020 Ipswich to Peterborough has been abandoned UFN cus of infrastructure constraints, "mostly level crossings" as the GA presentation noted. I suppose they have got a good few years to sort it out, but if they cant operate an extra 7 trains a day each way on four years notice, I am not optimistic the infrastructure east of Camb will ever accommodate these proposals.

    As an aside anyone need some nice brand new Stadler bimodes? GA will have 3 or 4 sitting around looking nice if they cant spend their time going to Peterborough and back.
     
  13. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    The other feature I remember about Newmarket station is the very small car park, and no obvious way of enlarging it.
     
  14. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    If you were going to encourage park and ride, Kennett would be a better location
     
  15. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    I'd be surprised if they were to be any sitting around.
     
  16. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Cambridge-Ipswich is hourly at present so could be extended with no extra conflicts north/east of Cambridge, although a journey time of under 60min probably involves taking out stops which would have to go into the Peterborough train or a new service.

    There is also currently an hourly Norwich train starting at Cambridge, although I think the aspiration is to extend it to Stansted.
     
  17. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    I might be tempted to extend the Ipswich service to the west via EWR but you would need to find a path through Cambridge Station first - I wish everyone luck with that.

    As you rightly note Norwich - Cambridge services are due to be extended to / from Stansted Airport, though you could in theory add a second service between Norwich and Cambridge and then onto EWR but with more problems passing through Ely North Jn, Trowse Jn, and Cambridge as I highlighted above.

    I would see more value in a Norwich to Birmingham service via Leicester with a connection at Ely for East West Rail services starting at Ely.
     
  18. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    I wouldn’t. I’d put longer trains on the existing service.

    But if it was required, probably extend the loop at Dullingham a little, and remove Laundry Lane crossing at the Cambridge which is responsible for a 10mph restriction.
     
  19. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Is getting to a <60 min Ipswich - Cambs time feasible, @Bald Rick ? What would be required in infrastructure terms?
     
  20. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Anything is feasible within the laws of physics. For this you’d probably need to remove all the station stops, and remodel / realign Bury St Edmunds, Chippenham Jn, and the whole line for 2 miles through Newmarket. If you actually wanted to stop anywhere, then we’re into new line territory.
     
  21. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Well, Bury would look much better with the centre roads reinstated! It makes you wonder where this figure came from.
     
  22. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    Used mainly for holding freights to allow passenger trains to stop/pass.
    If you could find a J39, a rake of loose coupled coal wagons, a brake van, oh and a wheel tapper then we could re-create the scene. Stuff of models!!

    As to your last sentence then the document contains a good selection of 'ambitious' targets as well as 'questionable' data. And not any pledge of funding. OK I am being somewhat previous but probably realistic about the latter.
     
  23. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Ah, many thanks - I'd presumed that they were fast lines - could they be so if reinstated?

    Well, quite. But I'd prefer a J15 and some six-wheelers from the Mid-Suffolk....

    That's all fair - I'd just presumed that they'd not made it (all) up, and as Ipswich - Cambs is under 56 miles, then a 60 mph average isn't inconceivable, if optimistic.
     
  24. camflyer

    camflyer Member

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    There is a huge goods yard next door which is used by the businesses in the old station building. If that whole area was compulsory purchased then that would create a big area for redevelopment allowing for a bigger station, bring the old station building back into use, new residential units (20 min commute into Cambridge) and maybe a hotel (which would make a fortune on race days)
     
  25. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    The goods yard presumably dates from when the racehorses came by train.
     
  26. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    The area under discussion was never a railway goods yard! It was the entrance, grand entrance if you like, to the third passenger station to be built in Newmarket in 1902.
    There is a picture at the head of the page on 'The Coming of the Railway to Newmarket' on the Newmarket Local History Society website:
    http://www.newmarketlhs.org.uk/lhs9.htm
    Extracts;
    It's a good read.
     
  27. camflyer

    camflyer Member

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    Thanks. Nice picture.

    Sorry, by "goods yard" I meant (as a lack of a better term) for what it is used for now. For such a big area right next to the current station, it just seems to be land which could be much better used. While nothing can be done about the single track through the town and under the heath, this area gives lots of scope for development while reintroducing the "grand entrance".
     
  28. Steve Harris

    Steve Harris Member

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    Oh dear. That old chesnut again !

    Marshall's had several studies undertaken regards moving and giving up Cambridge Airport for housing (A Lib Dem City Council idea in the 2000's). RAF Mildenhall was looked at (along with other possible sites). And none were viable.

    So all the people on here who think Cambridge Airport will be moving...... As per what the Marshall group has stated " not in the forseseeable future".

    And personally i doubt it will happen at all in my life time.

    However, I'm sure if a suitable site was found Marshall's would look at it. But, as at least one other previous site which was looked at is now going to be housing I'm doubting if there is anywhere suitable for the airport to relocate to which isn't already been snapped up for housing.
     
  29. Meerkat

    Meerkat Member

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    When Mildenhall was last looked at was it still active? the Yanks are vacating which changes the picture a bit.
     
  30. Steve Harris

    Steve Harris Member

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    I very much doubt it.

    It has been known for some time that the American Air Force would be leaving RAF Mildenhall.

    So why hasn't there been anymore studies carried out? Also, you may or may not know that the Marshall Group shut down their SPV (as it was then) production plant in Mildenhall.

    I have no idea if you know the area / company or just have your crayons out.

    By what you have posted i doubt if you do. I have worked in the area for some years and have a family member who retired from said company and keeps in touch with his ex co- workers. I'm obviously not party to high level info but i haven't heard anything about it being looked at again.
     

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