Reduce dwell times

[Waddon]

What I've always thought would be useful would be some sort of indicator lights on the platform showing where the train will stop, especially at stations where short trains stop at the far end of very long platforms, OK I know this wouldn't be practical everywhere but at places like the Thameslink core stations, where some platforms are extremely long, and the stock is all broadly similar, would prevent a lot of passengers running up the platform because they don't know better.

Yes, I know there are signs at places like St.Pancras (if you can find them and work them out) but if there was an announcement saying the next train will stop in the area marked by blue lights, or something...

 

[142094]

Would lights not distract drivers and possibly interfere with signals?

Even if there was a system you'd still get people dwaldling around looking lost then in a panic to get to the right door.

 

[tbtc]

This sort of thing should work very well on closed systems with uniform stock but... On Sheffield Supertram there's tactile paving on every stop that lines up with the doors (two in the front part of the tram and two in the rear part, there's no doors in the middle section) but you still see people day in day out waiting in the middle of the platform and then looking confused when there's no door in front of them

Fair point.

IIRC they are doing something like this on the central Crossrail section (like the Jubilee "doors"?) as that's a self contained line with only one uniform type of stock.

Sadly I can't think of any line in Yorkshire where it'd work 100% of the time due to the variety of stock (15m, 20m, 23m carriages, with end doors or 2/3rds doors). Even if you assume that the Penistone line will only ever get 142s (or the Barton on Humber line will only get 153s), that might only be the case for a couple of years before the next reshuffle of stock renders the platform indicators worthless.

However I'm all for something that improves the "platform/train interface" (to sound pretentious) - this is one of the neglected parts of the railway "network" which has seen little in the way of change since privatisation (despite trains becoming new/shiny and stations getting lots of snazzy new shops, the actual process of boarding/alighting could do with more improvement.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It's cost/benefit which is the big factor here. Having driven trains for years I have plenty of experience in seeing how people behave on platforms. People tend to hang around in the area nearest the doors or stairs which give access to the platform instead of using the full length, whether having more signs up would change their behaviour is something which would need to be studied on a small scale before being rolled on a larger scale. Even then I still think you would struggle to solve the problem where "experienced" commuters travelling into terminal stations overcrowd the front coach so they can be as close to the ticket barrier/underground as possible when the doors are released.

 

[LE Greys]

It's cost/benefit which is the big factor here. Having driven trains for years I have plenty of experience in seeing how people behave on platforms. People tend to hang around in the area nearest the doors or stairs which give access to the platform instead of using the full length, whether having more signs up would change their behaviour is something which would need to be studied on a small scale before being rolled on a larger scale. Even then I still think you would struggle to solve the problem where "experienced" commuters travelling into terminal stations overcrowd the front coach so they can be as close to the ticket barrier/underground as possible when the doors are released.

That tends to be more to do with lack of canopies/windbreaks than anything else. On an exposed, windswept station (Stevenage for instance) passengers tend to huddle in the sheltered areas, unlike stations with more weatherproofing (Hitchin for instance) where they distribute themselves better.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Really? I dont sign the ECML, but the line on which I do work (Chiltern mainline) what I say is basically true in my experience, which is considerable I might add.
Passengers will tend to congregate around access points for platforms, whether that is at the top/bottom of a staircase, by a door or lift or some other point where there is a reason to hang about like benches or a buffet. It only takes a handful of people to slow down a dwell at a station and more often than not the people that do that are the people who pay no attention whatsoever to signage anyway.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

they should use a coloured line from the stop board of the train to the end of the train showing where to stand. E.G at york, purple line for east coast 91 sets, red line for TPE trains etc

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So basically you want multi-coloured platforms?

I prefer the traditional boards, posters and info displays, of course aided by platform staff shouting 'Move down the platform, use all the doors!'.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

So basically you want multi-coloured platforms?

quite right there! Obviously at stations where there are lots of variety of rolling stock this could become an issue

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Aye, also just though about colour blinded peopl (not even fully - lots of people can struggle differentiating green and brown or purple and blue), hence I prefer actual diagrams and prose.

 

[cuccir]

Colour coding over complicates things. Didn't Virgin use a colour system when they started up? A diagram with posters or the words painted on the platform is a good start.

I think there are maps at the annex platforms of Piccadilly for the services which split at Lancaster aren't there?

 

[The Planner]

Birmingham International has colour lines down the platforms splitting standard and first for Virgin trains, universally ignored whenever I have been there.

 

[EM2]

...aided by platform staff shouting 'Move down the platform, use all the doors!'.

Use all the doors? Once I've used one, I don't want to get off to use another one, let alone all of them!

 

[starrymarkb]

Shows what you can do with a single, integrated, quasi-nationalised railway company.

I did suggest things like publicly displayed train numbers (which would probably make it clearer which services advance tickets are available on) but the idea was poo pooed by fellow forum members who thought it over complicated and that people wouldn't understand it.

 

[Michael.Y]

Colour coding over complicates things. Didn't Virgin use a colour system when they started up?

They carried on the Zone system left behind by BR - Gold, Blue, Purple and Orange. You can still see them today at Crewe.

 

[brianthegiant]

In my experience the colour system works quite well. Like many cyclists I do try to figure which end of the train to be so I don't hold things up.

I'm very suspicious of generalisations along the lines of 'it inexperienced travellers with heavy luggage who hold things up & they wouldn't respond to better information anyway'
Surely many people in this position would actually like to know where abouts the carriage will be, to avoid last minute stress. I do believe most people would prefer stress free travel.

Over the years, I've had a number of train despatch staff approach me & advise on bicycle storage location, whether or not I'd already sussed it, there must be many passengers who haven't. My impression is that there is more scope for train despatch staff to identify passengers with heavy luggage & advise on whereabouts to be, or for announcers to give out more information on train formation (length & orientation). This approach gets around different stock issues and doesn't require new screens etc.

 

[LE Greys]

In my experience the colour system works quite well. Like many cyclists I do try to figure which end of the train to be so I don't hold things up.

I'm very suspicious of generalisations along the lines of 'it inexperienced travellers with heavy luggage who hold things up & they wouldn't respond to better information anyway'
Surely many people in this position would actually like to know where abouts the carriage will be, to avoid last minute stress. I do believe most people would prefer stress free travel.

Over the years, I've had a number of train despatch staff approach me & advise on bicycle storage location, whether or not I'd already sussed it, there must be many passengers who haven't. My impression is that there is more scope for train despatch staff to identify passengers with heavy luggage & advise on whereabouts to be, or for announcers to give out more information on train formation (length & orientation). This approach gets around different stock issues and doesn't require new screens etc.

I agree, although it might call for a bit of work and the reintroduction of the porter's barrow (in a modified form). After all, it should be possible to find out what type of train is on a service and whether it will be reverse-formed. If I have heavy luggage, I dread the arrival of a reverse-formed HST or an Electra running vice HST, especially after having booked into Coach B so that I will be near the luggage compartment. Working out which end this will be and collecting bikes and luggage in that direction would be very helpful.

 

[transmanche]

I did suggest things like publicly displayed train numbers (which would probably make it clearer which services advance tickets are available on) but the idea was poo pooed by fellow forum members who thought it over complicated and that people wouldn't understand it.

I suggested something similar too!

It would stop confusion about which train is the correct one in times of disruption - and might even cut down on some of the PA waffle at each station.

IIRC, Virgin and CrossCountry already display train numbers on the side of the carriages - and it seems to work well for Eurostar and most european rail operators

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Really? I dont sign the ECML, but the line on which I do work (Chiltern mainline) what I say is basically true in my experience, which is considerable I might add.
Passengers will tend to congregate around access points for platforms, whether that is at the top/bottom of a staircase, by a door or lift or some other point where there is a reason to hang about like benches or a buffet. It only takes a handful of people to slow down a dwell at a station and more often than not the people that do that are the people who pay no attention whatsoever to signage anyway.

From the point of view of the non-regular passenger, if you have no idea how long the train is or where along the platform the train is going to stop, that's very sensible behaviour. After all, if you walk some way away from where you entered the platform, that gives you no guarantee that you won't have to run back again when the train arrives.

There's also a factor that if a few people stand in a certain place, that's likely to make other non-regulars think that that is actually the best place to stand.

Indeed it often puzzles me why at so many stations the trains don't stop where the entrance to the platform is. After all, doing so would be so much more convenient to passengers, and - at least to me as an outsider - it doesn't look like a hard thing for TOCs to try to do.

 

[ng1980]

Use all the doors? Once I've used one, I don't want to get off to use another one, let alone all of them!

He he.

I like that!

 

[Michael.Y]

It would stop confusion about which train is the correct one in times of disruption - and might even cut down on some of the PA waffle at each station.

Only if the train is set up correctly by the driver/guard. For instance we left Cardiff Central on Friday night having commandeered the Manc-Milford train for our 1721 to Holyhead. (A 150 was put on for CDF-MFH) As soon as we left, it announced the next stop was Bridgend! It was soon sorted though.

 

[transmanche]

I suggested something similar too!

It would stop confusion about which train is the correct one in times of disruption - and might even cut down on some of the PA waffle at each station.

IIRC, Virgin and CrossCountry already display train numbers on the side of the carriages - and it seems to work well for Eurostar and most european rail operators

Only if the train is set up correctly by the driver/guard. For instance we left Cardiff Central on Friday night having commandeered the Manc-Milford train for our 1721 to Holyhead. (A 150 was put on for CDF-MFH) As soon as we left, it announced the next stop was Bridgend! It was soon sorted though.

Quite. I'm not a regular traveller on Virgin or CrossCountry, perhaps some forumites who do might be able to shed some light as to how accurate the information is on the Pendolino/Voyager external displays.