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Redundancies due to Covid

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adc82140

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Is there a tally anywhere of how many companies have announced mass redundacies since March? Today it's been HSS Hire (800), earlier in the week it was Greene King. It's difficult to keep up with it.

In the grand tradition of @Bletchleyite the rights and wrongs of Covid restrictions are being discussed elsewhere,so the causes of the redundancies (or not) are already well discussed.
 
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kristiang85

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I can't find any right now for the UK (there's lots online for American companies), but in August the FT reported 750,000 jobs had been lost so far due to Coronavirus. Since furlough has come to an end, I would suspect this has gone up to at least 1,000,000. And more will come this winter. But this doesn't answer your question really!

When you think of how much less money is going into the tax system due to these mass redundancies - and something like 95% of the NHS depends on this tax income - you do wonder if the fiscal damage to the NHS will be far more than the virus is. Let alone other state institutions...
 

Bantamzen

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I can't find any right now for the UK (there's lots online for American companies), but in August the FT reported 750,000 jobs had been lost so far due to Coronavirus. Since furlough has come to an end, I would suspect this has gone up to at least 1,000,000. And more will come this winter. But this doesn't answer your question really!

When you think of how much less money is going into the tax system due to these mass redundancies - and something like 95% of the NHS depends on this tax income - you do wonder if the fiscal damage to the NHS will be far more than the virus is. Let alone other state institutions...

This probably isn't too far out, the ONS were estimating somewhere around 695,000 redundancies occurred between March & August:


Early estimates for August 2020 from Pay As You Earn (PAYE) Real Time Information (RTI) indicate that the number of payroll employees fell by 2.4% (695,000) compared with March 2020.
 

brad465

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We can add another 24,000 as it looks like the Peacock's owner is appointing administrators, citing the "brutal trading conditions":


Edinburgh Woollen Mill, owner of the Peacocks and Jaeger clothing brands, says it plans to appoint administrators in an attempt to save the business.

The move puts 24,000 jobs at risk amid what the company described as "brutal" trading conditions.

"Like every retailer, we have found the past seven months extremely difficult," said Edinburgh Woollen Mill chief executive Steve Simpson.

The stores will continue to trade as a review of the business is carried out.

The businesses attract older shoppers who are likely to be keeping away from the High Street to protect their health, says Catherine Shuttleworth, an independent retail expert.

She said it was a "devastating blow" to small towns and tourist areas where they are based and that buyers for the businesses as a whole could be hard to come by.
 

kristiang85

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OK I've finally come across a list:


▪️Pizza Express 1100
▪️Zizzi 1200
▪️Frankie & Bennys 3000
▪️Byron burgers 600
▪️Bella Italia & Cafe Rouge 1900
▪️Pret a manger 2800
▪️Costa Coffee 1650
▪️upper crust 5000
▪️IAG / British Airways 12000
▪️National trust 1000
▪️Manchester airport 892
▪️Green king 800
▪️Cineworld 5500
▪️TSB 900
▪️Shell 9000 worldwide
▪️Ford 1000
▪️Cartwright group 480
▪️TUI 8000
▪️Whitbread 6000
▪️Weatherspoons 130
▪️EasyJet 7000 planned to go
▪️Next 150 planned to go
▪️Airbus 1700
▪️Uppercrust 5000
▪️Virgin money 400
▪️Harrods 680
▪️TM lewis 600
▪️Clark’s 700
▪️Shoe zone 3500
▪️Accenture 900
▪️Arcadia 500
▪️Royal Mail 2000
▪️British Engines 200
▪️Virgin Atlantic 3000
▪️Aer Lingus 900
▪️M&S 7950
▪️Swiss port 4175
▪️Heathrow 500
▪️Centrica 5000
▪️OVO energy 2600
▪️BP 2000
▪️Bombardier 600
▪️Bentley 500
▪️Land Rover 1100
▪️HSBC 35000 world wide
▪️G4S 1150
▪️Johnson Matthey 2500
▪️Monsoon 550
▪️Oasis/ warehouse 1800
▪️Mulberry 470
▪️John Lewis 1300
▪️TM Lewin 600
▪️Boots 4000
▪️Burger King 1600 planned
▪️SSP Group 5000
▪️Travis Perkins 2500
▪️DW sports 1700 planned
▪️Pizza Express 1100
▪️Dixon’s Carphone 800
▪️Debenhams 6500
▪️Guardian media 180
▪️Arup 350
▪️Pret 1500
▪️Natwest 500

Plus thousands more unreported job losses.
 

adc82140

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Thank you. That's just the list I was looking for. Shocking isn't it. Is it any worse than the 2008 financial crash?
 

C J Snarzell

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A very good list, however there are hundreds if not thousands of little independant businesses not mentioned who will top up the numbers even more.

Rishi Sunak's new scheme which will succeed Furlough in November will perhaps reduce the avalanche of further unemployment, but sadly we will see more redundancies in the months to come.

The financial crash of 2008 was bad, however some sources reckon the 1992 UK recession was worse than 2008. The current situation must be on a level playing field to the financial crisis of the 1930s which came about after the Wall Street crash of 1929.

CJ
 

Bantamzen

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A very good list, however there are hundreds if not thousands of little independant businesses not mentioned who will top up the numbers even more.

Rishi Sunak's new scheme which will succeed Furlough in November will perhaps reduce the avalanche of further unemployment, but sadly we will see more redundancies in the months to come.

The financial crash of 2008 was bad, however some sources reckon the 1992 UK recession was worse than 2008. The current situation must be on a level playing field to the financial crisis of the 1930s which came about after the Wall Street crash of 1929.

CJ

It won't where businesses might be forced to close at short notice, which is a lot. And without saying too much, the government is quietly preparing for a lot more unemployed in the coming weeks and months. That list is going to get a lot longer, and 750,000 redundancies is going to get a lot higher very soon.
 

brad465

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The ONS next releases its unemployment estimates on Tuesday (13th), which should give an indication of the trend. Last time they estimated it only increased from 3.9% to 4.1% by the end of July, however I expect this to now be accelerating, with the upcoming estimate likely to be to the end of August.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Those lists can be misleading.
For instance IAG/BA is not reducing by anything like 12000, following pay and restructuring agreements with the unions.
There will also be another list of new jobs being created because of the shift in the way things are being bought/distributed, at places like supermarkets and e-traders (eg Tesco and Amazon), rather than high-street shops.
The latest, Edinburgh Woollen Mill, even if it fails, might be broken up and some of the pieces acquired by other retailers.
The news is bad, of course, but often not as bad as is made out, especially when initially announced.
The media always goes for worst numbers.
 
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LAX54

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Those lists can be misleading.
For instance IAG/BA is not reducing by anything like 12000, following pay and restructuring agreements with the unions.
There will also be another list of new jobs being created because of the shift in the way things are bought/distributed, at places like supermarkets and e-traders (eg Tesco and Amazon), rather than high-street shops.
The latest, Edinburgh Woollen Mill, even if it fails, might be broken up and some of the pieces acquired by other retailers.
The news is bad, of course, but often not as bad as is made out, especially when initially announced.
The media always goes for worst numbers.
as it does with the general covid figures ! but as others have said with the C19 figures on illness/deaths if you are one of those involved the numbers mean nothing if you are directly affected.
 

adc82140

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Those lists can be misleading.
For instance IAG/BA is not reducing by anything like 12000, following pay and restructuring agreements with the unions.
There will also be another list of new jobs being created because of the shift in the way things are bought/distributed, at places like supermarkets and e-traders (eg Tesco and Amazon), rather than high-street shops.
The latest, Edinburgh Woollen Mill, even if it fails, might be broken up and some of the pieces acquired by other retailers.
The news is bad, of course, but often not as bad as is made out, especially when initially announced.
The media always goes for worst numbers.
OK, for balance is there a list of jobs created since March? (the definition of a job being a full time role which is not considered to be a "gig" or self employment)
 

deltic

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OK I've finally come across a list:


▪Pizza Express 1100
▪Zizzi 1200
▪Frankie & Bennys 3000
▪Byron burgers 600
▪Bella Italia & Cafe Rouge 1900
▪Pret a manger 2800
▪Costa Coffee 1650
▪upper crust 5000
▪IAG / British Airways 12000
▪National trust 1000
▪Manchester airport 892
▪Green king 800
▪Cineworld 5500
▪TSB 900
▪Shell 9000 worldwide
▪Ford 1000
▪Cartwright group 480
▪TUI 8000
▪Whitbread 6000
▪Weatherspoons 130
▪EasyJet 7000 planned to go
▪Next 150 planned to go
▪Airbus 1700
▪Uppercrust 5000
▪Virgin money 400
▪Harrods 680
▪TM lewis 600
▪Clark’s 700
▪Shoe zone 3500
▪Accenture 900
▪Arcadia 500
▪Royal Mail 2000
▪British Engines 200
▪Virgin Atlantic 3000
▪Aer Lingus 900
▪M&S 7950
▪Swiss port 4175
▪Heathrow 500
▪Centrica 5000
▪OVO energy 2600
▪BP 2000
▪Bombardier 600
▪Bentley 500
▪Land Rover 1100
▪HSBC 35000 world wide
▪G4S 1150
▪Johnson Matthey 2500
▪Monsoon 550
▪Oasis/ warehouse 1800
▪Mulberry 470
▪John Lewis 1300
▪TM Lewin 600
▪Boots 4000
▪Burger King 1600 planned
▪SSP Group 5000
▪Travis Perkins 2500
▪DW sports 1700 planned
▪Pizza Express 1100
▪Dixon’s Carphone 800
▪Debenhams 6500
▪Guardian media 180
▪Arup 350
▪Pret 1500
▪Natwest 500

Plus thousands more unreported job losses.

Many retailers and restaurant chains were struggling pre-Covid and the pandemic has accelerated existing trends to move on-line. Growth in food home delivery and streaming services like Netflick being the reason for some of these closures. The airlines and travel sector has obviously been hammered but again with measures to address climate change one could argue they too were at risk of going in the longer term. The question is how quickly will parts of the economy adapt and recover.
 

Bantamzen

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Those lists can be misleading.
For instance IAG/BA is not reducing by anything like 12000, following pay and restructuring agreements with the unions.
There will also be another list of new jobs being created because of the shift in the way things are bought/distributed, at places like supermarkets and e-traders (eg Tesco and Amazon), rather than high-street shops.
The latest, Edinburgh Woollen Mill, even if it fails, might be broken up and some of the pieces acquired by other retailers.
The news is bad, of course, but often not as bad as is made out, especially when initially announced.
The media always goes for worst numbers.

You really have no idea of the depth of damage to employment the covid measures have had, and will have. We already know that somewhere in the region of 750,000 jobs have been lost. And with the original furlough scheme coming to an end, plus potential further local lockdowns, hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of jobs will be on the line.
 

Reliablebeam

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You really have no idea of the depth of damage to employment the covid measures have had, and will have. We already know that somewhere in the region of 750,000 jobs have been lost. And with the original furlough scheme coming to an end, plus potential further local lockdowns, hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of jobs will be on the line.
Having friends inside a few of the aforementioned companies, it is true that compulsory redundancies have been toned down, BUT, there are still a lot of VR programs and substantial pay cuts which will feed through to economic weakness.

Edit: been made clear to my friends, any lockdown II and their jobs are toast with management back to finish the job..
 

Bantamzen

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Having friends inside a few of the aforementioned companies, it is true that compulsory redundancies have been toned down, BUT, there are still a lot of VR programs and substantial pay cuts which will feed through to economic weakness.

Edit: been made clear to my friends, any lockdown II and their jobs are toast with management back to finish the job..

All I will say is that the government are preparing for massive job losses over the coming months.
 

Richard Scott

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Deeply worrying. I am hearing more and more of good, well paid jobs being lost. Permanent destruction is now going on.
And this has a knock on effect as these people who were spending on going out, new cars, travel etc can't now afford it leading to more job losses.
 

C J Snarzell

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I believe the time has now come when the needs of the economy has to overtake the virus. Back in March, the virus had to take priority over everything but we are now at a point where unless the government start doing some major U-turns, we will be sailing into one of the biggest recessions in a generation.

I'm actually starting to get the impression that Boris is making decisions on the basis that he will be gone from office by the time the full effects of economic problem really kick in. Its like his attitude is the here & now and future PMs will ultimately be left to rebuild our economy years down the line, when BJ has retreated to his country bolthole.

CJ
 

brad465

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I believe the time has now come when the needs of the economy has to overtake the virus. Back in March, the virus had to take priority over everything but we are now at a point where unless the government start doing some major U-turns, we will be sailing into one of the biggest recessions in a generation.

I'm actually starting to get the impression that Boris is making decisions on the basis that he will be gone from office by the time the full effects of economic problem really kick in. Its like his attitude is the here & now and future PMs will ultimately be left to rebuild our economy years down the line, when BJ has retreated to his country bolthole.
I agree that he might be doing that, which would be what I call "the David Cameron attitude", in other words, create a load of mess, then run away so someone else has to clean it up. This is also a major driver no doubt in why there is an increasing backbench rebellion brewing in the party, because they can't run away so easily and know the current path will damage both the country and their own party especially.

Andy Burnham is starting to head in the direction of economy over virus (he may already be there but in a different form to Tory members), where he doesn't accept further restrictions without support, so it's likely if he doesn't believe business and jobs are supported properly he'll either refuse or at least not support further restrictions.

In terms of what might force a major U-turn, the Barrington declaration is probably the best chance, given its scientific backing of an alternative strategy that has the economy and all other health conditions considered while still trying to combat Covid. It's already out before the end of furlough this month so there is time to try and u-turn, albeit it not much.

Deeply worrying. I am hearing more and more of good, well paid jobs being lost. Permanent destruction is now going on.
If the Government are aware of this they should be deeply worried for their future among their base voters, as many of them are unaware of the harsh realities of Universal Credit; if they are exposed it, that support is gone for good (the backbenchers probably are already aware).
 

102 fan

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I'm seeing the tide Turning on social media. This sketch says it all. 20201010_234146.jpg
image shows a ship, the "SS Fully employed", with its captain shouting "Just remember people, we are all in this together", however while those on the ship are lucky enough to be employed in public service, the media, police and politicians, the general public are all in the sea with lifebuoys marked "SS Lockdown", struggling to stay afloat
 
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Reliablebeam

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I'm seeing the tide Turning on social media. This sketch says it all. View attachment 84523
I work in public sector science and I am in total agreement with this.

My feeling on what I am hearing is lots of *capital* available over the next few years but no funding to run anything...

I think there might be a few 'beat coppers' on here. You might want to consider this before you go out on some unwise cofid enforcement bender. The piper must be paid and you will be in the firing line.
 

bramling

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I believe the time has now come when the needs of the economy has to overtake the virus. Back in March, the virus had to take priority over everything but we are now at a point where unless the government start doing some major U-turns, we will be sailing into one of the biggest recessions in a generation.

I'm actually starting to get the impression that Boris is making decisions on the basis that he will be gone from office by the time the full effects of economic problem really kick in. Its like his attitude is the here & now and future PMs will ultimately be left to rebuild our economy years down the line, when BJ has retreated to his country bolthole.

CJ

I think you’re certainly on to something regarding Boris. He knows he’s finished - this has defined his premiership, and when this is finally all over the public mood will want a fresh face (I think this will do it for Sunak too). I think he’s also to some extent lost interest, he’s had a torrid time of it right from the start with the Brexit troubles, and I think he’d now quite happily walk away if only he could find a way of doing it whilst preserving some kind of reputation.

This self-damage-limitation combined with him knowing he won’t be around to do the repair job is quite worrying, as it’s made him a loose cannon.

Burnham today provided more opposition than Labour have done in 6 months.
 

DustyBin

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Deeply worrying. I am hearing more and more of good, well paid jobs being lost. Permanent destruction is now going on.

And without the prospect of finding new employment, not in an equivalent role anyway. There are going to be some very highly qualified delivery drivers out there shortly I suspect....
 

C J Snarzell

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Unfortunately, Andy Burnham fills me with less confidence than Boris Johnson. He has responsibility for one of the worst performing police forces in the country.

GMP has been hit with scandal after scandal during Burnham's time in office. These include the Anthony Grainger enquiry, the Rochdale child grooming affair, a shoddy 90 million pound IT upgrade on police computers that is not fit for purpose.

Police Chief Ian Hopkins has proven time & time again to be a pathological liar, but Burnham has failed to do anything during his time as Mayor. I'd probably go so far as call him a human jelly fish.

CJ
 

brad465

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Back in July we had this headline as a measure of the dire situation regarding job cuts:


More than 12,000 people in the UK are set to lose their jobs after a raft of firms announced cuts in the past 48 hours.

The cuts are mainly being made by High Street retailers and in aviation - two of the sectors hardest hit by the coronavirus lockdown.

John Lewis has said it will close stores but has not confirmed how many jobs will go.

Topshop owner Arcadia and Harrods said they planned a total of 1,180 job cuts.
It would not be surprising if come the end of the month we see similar announcements on a much bigger and/or more frequent scale, which will likely turn a lot of heads that haven't already done so.
 

Skimpot flyer

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It’s not just the headline-grabbing redundancies that affect people’s livelihoods, of course.
I’m no fan of Andy Burham, but he made the point that if you close lots of pubs and other venues in Manchester, then self-employed taxi drivers lose a huge chunk of their income
 

brad465

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If the CEBR's prediction outlined here is even a modest overestimation, we're in big trouble:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/12/almo...notification&ci=40082&si=11151438?ito=cbshare



Almost 3,000,000 people will be unemployed by Christmas as Rishi Sunak’s new furlough scheme is ‘unlikely to prevent a major loss of jobs’, a think-tank has predicted. The Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said businesses hit hardest by the pandemic will lay off more than a third of their furloughed staff once the Job Retention Scheme runs out on October 31. The new Job Support Scheme will then replace the programme in November by paying up to 67% of workers’ wages at companies forced to shut due to coronavirus.

The previous scheme paid up to 80% of employees’ salaries. The CEBR said: ‘The low-skills, low-pay sectors which are particularly affected by this crisis (eg hospitality) will not make extensive use of this. The scheme is, therefore, unlikely to prevent a major loss of jobs.’

This would put the total number of jobless people at just under 3,000,000 and raise the unemployment rate to 8.5% in the final quarter, compared with 8% previously predicted.

Unemployment up to 4.5% through to August (from 4.1% in July), with the expectation this will continue further, while redundancies at at their highest level since 2009:

The UK unemployment rate has surged to its highest level in over three years as the pandemic continues to hit jobs.

The unemployment rate grew to 4.5% in the three months to August, compared with 4.1% in the previous quarter.

Meanwhile redundancies rose to their highest level since 2009, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.

It comes as the government prepares to impose tough local lockdown rules that will force some businesses to close, potentially leading to more job losses.

Interestingly the highest rated comment under this article says "Most people would prefer to risk getting the virus rather than lose their job.", a sign of reality kicking in perhaps?
 
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