Refund ability on part used ticket when trains cancelled after break of journey

WesternLancer

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Hi - just seeking a view on the correct process here.

On saturday I travelled to London with a ticket I had bought a few weeks ago. No problems with that.

The day before I made the trip to London I decided I wanted to go from London to Stevenage, via Winchmore Hill (on Hertford Loop Line), where I needed to break my journey, and then head back to central London. To facilitate quick change at St Pancras I bought a Super Off Peak Day Rtn London to Stevenage with Network Railcard for £8.30. I bought this ticket from an EMR ticket office in the east mids before getting on the train to London, so I had ticket to hand.

I took trains from St Pancras to Winchmore Hill circa 10am, all good. Broke my journey there for about 2.5 hours.

At circa 1pm I returned to Winchmore Hill Station in order to progress north to Stevenage. I discovered the next two trains to Stevenage were cancelled (crew shortage I think - pingdemic I assume). It was not feasible for me to delay going to Stevenage for that long. It was a half hourly service so I would have been 1 hour late at least. I therefore abandoned my intention to travel to Stevenage and used the rtn portion of my Super OP ticket to go back to a London Terminal.

1) What am I due in refund and how do I claim it?

1a) As I never went to Stevenage (as abandoned that part of the trip) I assume I can't claim Delay Repay?

1b) I see a London Terminals to Winchmore Hill return with Network Card is £6.45 - that is basically what I used my £8.30 ticket to do. Am I entitled to the balance?
(of course had I known that I would be unable to travel Winchmore Hill to Stevenage at the time I needed to I would have never bought a ticket as I did and simply used my Oyster Card to travel from St Pancras to Winchmore Hill and back, befitting from a cap as I did various other travel later in the day using my Oyster).

2) And as I bought the ticket from an EMR ticket office near my home do I need to go back there, state the trains cancelled and ask for a partial refund?

I don't have a smart phone and there was no way of knowing at c10am that trains, or which trains, later in the day northbound would be cancelled, and given I had to be at Winchmore Hill, other trains from Kings Cross to Stevenage on the direct route were not available to me.

Thanks for thoughts.
 
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AlterEgo

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1) What am I due in refund and how do I claim it?
A full refund.
1a) As I never went to Stevenage (as abandoned that part of the trip) I assume I can't claim Delay Repay?
Correct. This is an abandoned journey and you should claim a full refund from the retailer.
1b) I see a London Terminals to Winchmore Hill return with Network Card is £6.45 - that is basically what I used my £8.30 ticket to do. Am I entitled to the balance?
No. You are not due the balance because a cheaper ticket was available for the itinerary you ended up taking.
2) And as I bought the ticket from an EMR ticket office near my home do I need to go back there, state the trains cancelled and ask for a partial refund?
You need to ask for a full refund. Ideally this should be done at the ticket office where you bought the ticket, but writing to EMR with the ticket should also yield results.

Don't bother mentioning your break of journey, it'll just confuse things and the point is entirely moot anyway.
 

WesternLancer

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A full refund.

Correct. This is an abandoned journey and you should claim a full refund from the retailer.

No. You are not due the balance because a cheaper ticket was available for the itinerary you ended up taking.

You need to ask for a full refund. Ideally this should be done at the ticket office where you bought the ticket, but writing to EMR with the ticket should also yield results.

Don't bother mentioning your break of journey, it'll just confuse things and the point is entirely moot anyway.
Thanks - I can call into the ticket office in the near future to ask for a refund.

My query would therefore be that I traveled to Winchmore Hill and conducted my business there, and returned to London, but would then pay no fare for this if my full Stevenage fare is refunded? That does not 'seem right' to me, but perhaps this is the rule?

I did consider using Oyster to go back to central London, but given that I was unsure if I would get any refund due to cancellation of onward travel, I was reluctant to spend more money when I had a ticket that was at least valid for that return in my wallet that I could use.
 

AlterEgo

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Thanks - I can call into the ticket office in the near future to ask for a refund.

My query would therefore be that I traveled to Winchmore Hill and conducted my business there, and returned to London, but would then pay no fare for this if my full Stevenage fare is refunded? That does not 'seem right' to me, but perhaps this is the rule?

I did consider using Oyster to go back to central London, but given that I was unsure if I would get any refund due to cancellation of onward travel, I was reluctant to spend more money when I had a ticket that was at least valid for that return in my wallet that I could use.
It’s called a “break of journey” implying that although you stopped there for a couple of hours for some sort of worthwhile purpose, you didn’t finish your journey. Hence, a full refund is due even if you did get some value out of your day.
 

Haywain

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My query would therefore be that I traveled to Winchmore Hill and conducted my business there, and returned to London, but would then pay no fare for this if my full Stevenage fare is refunded? That does not 'seem right' to me, but perhaps this is the rule?
I'm not as convinced as AlterEgo that a full refund is due, but I suspect it would be easier dealt with in that way.
 

AlterEgo

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I'm not as convinced as AlterEgo that a full refund is due, but I suspect it would be easier dealt with in that way.
Why would it not be?

30. YOUR RIGHT TO A REFUND IF YOUR TRAIN IS DISRUPTED AND YOU CHOOSE NOT TO TRAVEL

30.1.
If the train you intended to use is cancelled, delayed, or your reservation will not be honoured, and you decide not to travel, you may return the unused Ticket to the original retailer or Train Company from whom it was purchased, where you will be given a full refund with no administration fee being charged. This Condition applies to all Tickets, including Tickets (such as Advance Tickets) that are otherwise non-refundable, and also applies if you have begun your journey but are unable to complete it due to delay or cancellations and return to your point of origin.

(my underlining)

Absolutely unequivocal as per the Conditions of Travel, even if it might cause a raised eyebrow at the logic of claiming a full refund for a ticket which the OP got some personal value from. It's neither here nor there that he did a personally worthwhile thing during a break of journey as opposed to merely change trains.

It's called break of journey rather than "making two journeys on one ticket".

It sounds counter-intuitive but them's the rules.
 

WesternLancer

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It’s called a “break of journey” implying that although you stopped there for a couple of hours for some sort of worthwhile purpose, you didn’t finish your journey. Hence, a full refund is due even if you did get some value out of your day.
Thanks for further follow up, and helpful conditions extract.

As it happens, had the ticket office at Winchmore Hill been able to refund me I would have asked then and there, and then purchased a new ticket for my changed changed travel plan. But since I was generally aware of the need to obtain refunds, if I was due one, from point of sale I did not ask for that (another fragmented railway nuisance, despite advances in electronic systems that might facilitate it, that could these days be removed in a unified system - tho I think in BR days you maybe had to go back to point of sale too).
 

Bletchleyite

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Thanks for further follow up, and helpful conditions extract.

As it happens, had the ticket office at Winchmore Hill been able to refund me I would have asked then and there, and then purchased a new ticket for my changed changed travel plan. But since I was generally aware of the need to obtain refunds, if I was due one, from point of sale I did not ask for that (another fragmented railway nuisance, despite advances in electronic systems that might facilitate it, that could these days be removed in a unified system - tho I think in BR days you maybe had to go back to point of sale too).

Some TOCs can deal with it at any of that same TOC's stations. I went to the Euston LM booking office seeking an overdistance excess once, and they preferred to non-issue the original ticket (despite it having been through the barrier) and issue a replacement.
 

WesternLancer

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Some TOCs can deal with it at any of that same TOC's stations. I went to the Euston LM booking office seeking an overdistance excess once, and they preferred to non-issue the original ticket (despite it having been through the barrier) and issue a replacement.
Yes, good to hear. That is the least you would expect really. But of course in this case I had bought the ticket from EMR and I think Winchmore Hill is a TSGN station so I didn't even consider asking! Mind you the staff member on duty was a helpful chap.
 

WesternLancer

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Called into the EMR ticket office where I bought the ticket and requested a refund, helpful staff sorted this out no great problems. It did start off with saying there would be a £10 fee (which was more than the value of the ticket), but I explained again that it was due to a cancelled service and the refund was granted in full. It may simply have been that the member of staff didn't hear my explanation clearly at first (anti covid perspex screen plus me wearing mask).

So all resolved satisfactorily and thanks to contributors for advice.
 

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