Refund Vs Changeover Request

[Haz]

Hello,

I found this forum after looking online regarding season ticket refunds. I have looked at the calculations that people have made but I'm not getting my head round it. Is there anyone here who would be kind enough to advise?

Basically, I've got a new job and I can surrender my season ticket on March 8th. I may or may not ride to work at the new job but I haven't yet decided.

My season ticket started on Jan 1st and cost £1956. If I did a changeover I would have it from Worthing to Shoreham-By-Sea and an annual between them currently costs £952.

What would I get as a refund in full and what would I get from the changeover?

I do have another option of getting the cheapest changeover if it works out better than a refund, too. Does that have to be on my usual route? The cheapest I can find is £344.

Thanks you,

Haz

 

[maniacmartin]

What is the origin and destination on the season ticket you currently hold?

 

[Haz]

It is between Worthing and Burgess Hill.

 

[pepperpot80]

Changeover:

Old ticket price (A) = £1956
New ticket price (B) = £952*

[*This is the 2016 price, so the calculation will be slightly out, as the changeover will use the 2015 price.]

Divide each by 365 to obtain the base rate for each ticket

A ÷ 365 = £5.36 (C)
B ÷ 365 = £2.61 (D)

Multiply each by the number of whole days remaining (if we start the new ticket tomorrow, that's 303 days)

C x 303 = £1624.08 (The credit due to you)
D x 303 = £790.83 (The cost of the new ticket)

The difference, £833.25, would be due to you as a refund. This decreases by £2.75 per day if you hold off.

As £952 is the 2016 price, and the 2015 price was lower, you should get a bit more back - likely about 2%, so call it an £850 refund.

Season ticket refund
...would be £1956...
...less the cost of a 2-month-and-3-day ticket for that journey, i.e. £394.65...
...less a £10 admin fee.

That would leave you with £1551.35. That is to say, it leaves you worse off, as you get less money 'back' and (from tomorrow to 31/12) the new ticket will cost £908 (as you would be charged at 2016 prices, without the beneficial calculation of the changeover, and with that extra admin fee). You end up with £643.35 in pocket - about £200 worse off than the changeover.

 

[Haz]

Thank you very much, Pepperpot. Most appreciated

 

[Haz]

I've just spoken to Southern and the refund that I'm due has been worked out to a different formula (naturally, it's less than I expected ).

The formula is:
1956 / 40 = 48.90 (40 being the amount of weeks charged for on a season ticket)

48.90 * 12.55 = 613.70 (12.55 being the number of weeks I used the ticket)

1956 - 613.70 = 1342.31
Apparently no admin charge because it was on TheKey.

So I end up with £1342 which is over £200 less than expected.

I'm not moaning - I'm just letting people know that this is the case.

Cheers,

Haz

 

[causton]

Correct, for a refund that looks about right for the formula (assuming they did the calculations correctly).

On a refund we work out what you used and take it off, this is because otherwise people would be refunding tickets left right and centre to cheat the system!
e.g. a 12 month season ticket could be used for 11 months then a refund obtained for the final month, which is "free". Instead, once you use your 40 weeks, that is it, so not quite proportional!

For example someone returned a £350 monthly season ticket because they weren't using it for the final week. They probably expected to get the weekly cost of £85 back but instead, after three weeks and 2 days, they got £25 back, minus a £10 admin fee to make £10! (all figures rounded and may be wrong if my memory is dodgy but you get the idea)

 

[hairyhandedfool]

They shouldn't be working out the period used by weekly tickets, it should be by one ticket for the duration used, 1 month 23 days (upto and including today). By my maths that is less than £600 value.

 

[greatkingrat]

That is wrong. Southern appear to have based the refund on the cost of weekly tickets, but it should be done using monthly tickets (which are proportionately cheaper).

The refund should be

£1956.00 (cost of original ticket)
less £426.00 (cost of ticket for 2 months 8 days)
less £10.00 (admin fee)

total due £1520.00

EDIT: What day did you actually hand the ticket back? In your original post you said March 8th, but that doesn't seem to tie up with Southern using 12.55 weeks for their calculation?

EDIT2: I see what Southern have done. They have worked the refund out based on 3 months 8 days (which costs 12.55 x weekly rate), and not the correct 2 months 8 days (which costs 8.71 x weekly rate). I think someone at Southern needs training in how to use a calendar!

 

[bb21]

Agreed it was incorrectly calculated. The deduction should have been based on the price of the odd-period season ticket you would have required.

I say take it back to Southern and get them to look at it again.

 

[RJ]

Haz, have you had your season ticket replaced at any point, perhaps due to it no longer working the barriers? This might have an impact on the quote Southern gave you.

 

[Haz]

Thank for all the replies


RJ, I have not changed the ticket at all nor had a replacement.

GreatKingRat, I last used the ticket on the 7th of March and Southern agreed to refund from the 8th. You have hit the nail on the head, I think. I have not used the ticket for 12.55 weeks and it is clear that Southern have made a mistake.

I have spoken to Southern twice today, including a Senior Refund Consultant . When I spoke to them last night, they agreed the formula included 12.55 weeks but insisted that it was right. The SRC today steadfastly refused to admit that the 12.55 related to weeks but could not tell me what it was. He stated that the details are entered into a spreadsheet and that the spreadsheet is 'infallible'! As a professional software tester, I soon put him right on that ridiculous assertion.

Anyway, he said that they will escalate my case (a few days, apparently), and then I can take it to an ombudsman if I'm still not happy. As far as I am concerned, if the 12.55 is not weeks then I will not be happy until I know what it does mean.

How many people have Southern paid out less to with this infallible spreadsheet process?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Quite where they've got the figure of 12.55 from is a mystery, even assuming it was correct in the first place (which it isn't!) Breaking it down:

• Each whole month attracts a multiplier of 3.84. 12.55 / 3.84 = 3.268. Ignoring the remainder gives us 3 months
• Each set of 5 days has a multiplier of 0.64. We have 1.03 left from the previous step. Dividing this by 0.64 gives 1.6, so we have 1 group of 5 days.
• Each odd day remaining has a multiplier of 0.13. We have 0.39 left from the previous step, giving 3 odd days.

So they've based the refund on 3 months 8 days of use. Or, to put it another way, that you've used the ticket until 8th April.

 

[Haz]

That does seem to be the case, CyrusWuff. I'll wait until I get an answer and let you all know what they say.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Many thanks to those that pointed out Southern's mistake that I missed. It was worth questioning it. Southern's 'infallible' spreadsheet got it wrong (or rather someone entered the wrong data). No communication from Southern as to why they have relented but I got a refund of £1,530.08 into my bank account which is spot on with GreatKingRat's calculation (TheKey does not take a £10 admin fee).

Cheers,

Haz