Regional Railways plans that never were

[Sad Sprinter]

We all know the Privatisation killed off Intercity 250 and the Networker programme, but did Regional Railways have any projects in the pipeline that were killed off by the economic downturn in the 90s or railway privatisation? I know there were going to be more class 323's operating where the class 333s are now, but were there any electrification plans or other infrastructure upgrades that were scrapped?

 

[AlistairCowell]

I don't see anything planned by Regional Railways that got cancelled as far as I'm aware. However, there was a plan to convert the existing Class 156 two-car units to become Class 152 single-car units, but in the event the two-car Class 155s were converted to single-car Class 153s instead.

Scotrail (although not part of Regional Railways) did plan to introduce the Class 157 Sprinter units in the 1990s for Strathclyde suburban services, but the privatisation of British Rail cancelled the project.

 

[edwin_m]

The 159s were originally intended to be more 158s for Regional Railways but were diverted to NSE. Otherwise the Sprinter revolution was complete before the downturn so there weren't really any projects to cut.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Weren't most of the Sprinters originally planned to have three coaches rather than just two? As the prototype class 150's have three coaches and the gangways are different to the other 150's which are all two car, whether this is down to any cutbacks that Regional Railways or even BR had to implement I don't know.

 

[Helvellyn]

Scotrail (although not part of Regional Railways) did plan to introduce the Class 157 Sprinter units in the 1990s for Strathclyde suburban services, but the privatisation of British Rail cancelled the project.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Class_157_Strathclyde_Sprinter.PNG

I know there were going to be more class 323's operating where the class 333s are now, but were there any electrification plans or other infrastructure upgrades that were scrapped?

I'm not aware of anything else on the horizon for Regional Railways other than the abortive Class 157 and WYPTE Class 323s. However, moving into the mid-1990s I could have seen Regional Railways looking at: -

• Class 101 replacement for North West and Strathclyde PTE services.
• Class 303 replacement for Strathclyde PTE services.
• Class 305 replacement for North Berwick services.
• Class 310 replacement for West Midlands services.
• Loco-hauled replacement for North West services.

The Class 157 would have been interesting as it could have replaced the 101s and 156s on Strathclyde - the latter could have been cascaded to the North West to replace the loco-hauled services.

If the Class 323s for WYPTE had been approved then a further follow-on build to replace the Class 303s could have been on the cards (possibly with a small sub-fleet to replace the 305s on North Berwick services).

Replacing the 310s in the West Midlands would have been interesting. Likely (I guess) to have been pitched for more 323s.

That would just leave a potential gap of replacing the Class 101s in the North West.

 

[Cowley]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Class_157_Strathclyde_Sprinter.PNG


I'm not aware of anything else on the horizon for Regional Railways other than the abortive Class 157 and WYPTE Class 323s. However, moving into the mid-1990s I could have seen Regional Railways looking at: -

• Class 101 replacement for North West and Strathclyde PTE services.
• Class 303 replacement for Strathclyde PTE services.
• Class 305 replacement for North Berwick services.
• Class 310 replacement for West Midlands services.
• Loco-hauled replacement for North West services.

The Class 157 would have been interesting as it could have replaced the 101s and 156s on Strathclyde - the latter could have been cascaded to the North West to replace the loco-hauled services.

If the Class 323s for WYPTE had been approved then a further follow-on build to replace the Class 303s could have been on the cards (possibly with a small sub-fleet to replace the 305s on North Berwick services).

Replacing the 310s in the West Midlands would have been interesting. Likely (I guess) to have been pitched for more 323s.

That would just leave a potential gap of replacing the Class 101s in the North West.

Really interesting, thanks for that.
. I quite like the look of that 157.
Reminds me a bit of a modernised Met-Cam with a snowplough.

 

[GusB]

Scotrail (although not part of Regional Railways) did plan to introduce the Class 157 Sprinter units in the 1990s for Strathclyde suburban services, but the privatisation of British Rail cancelled the project.

Scotrail services fell under the Provincial sector, so they would have been Regional Railways, surely?

 

[sprinterguy]

Weren't most of the Sprinters originally planned to have three coaches rather than just two?

I don't think that was ever the case, no.

 

[davetheguard]

Weren't most of the Sprinters originally planned to have three coaches rather than just two? As the prototype class 150's have three coaches and the gangways are different to the other 150's which are all two car, whether this is down to any cutbacks that Regional Railways or even BR had to implement I don't know.

If I remember correctly, the Government gave B.R. permission to buy new trains as long as three old coaches were replaced with two new ones.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If I remember correctly, the Government gave B.R. permission to buy new trains as long as three old coaches were replaced with two new ones.

Though to be fair that in some cases was three 18m coaches (heritage DMU) replaced by two 23m coaches (Class 155/6/8) meaning only actually an 8m reduction in train length.

 

[Bevan Price]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Class_157_Strathclyde_Sprinter.PNG


I'm not aware of anything else on the horizon for Regional Railways other than the abortive Class 157 and WYPTE Class 323s. However, moving into the mid-1990s I could have seen Regional Railways looking at: -

• Class 101 replacement for North West and Strathclyde PTE services.
• Class 303 replacement for Strathclyde PTE services.
• Class 305 replacement for North Berwick services.
• Class 310 replacement for West Midlands services.
• Loco-hauled replacement for North West services.

The Class 157 would have been interesting as it could have replaced the 101s and 156s on Strathclyde - the latter could have been cascaded to the North West to replace the loco-hauled services.

If the Class 323s for WYPTE had been approved then a further follow-on build to replace the Class 303s could have been on the cards (possibly with a small sub-fleet to replace the 305s on North Berwick services).

Replacing the 310s in the West Midlands would have been interesting. Likely (I guess) to have been pitched for more 323s.

That would just leave a potential gap of replacing the Class 101s in the North West.

If they had built some Class 157 for Scotrail, then it would seem likely that they would have also built some to replace Class 101 in the North West, plus the loco hauled workings around Liverpool & Manxhester. However, if the 157s had 3+2 seating, that would not have been ideal to replace the North Wales Coast Class 37s; so they might have considered a 157 variant with 2+2 seating, or maybe built some more 158s.

The West Midlands 310s also operated outer suburban services from London Euston, for which 3 coach Class 323s might have been considered too short - maybe they might have considered a 4 coach variant of Class 323 ?

 

[dubscottie]

The 157s were to work alongside, not replace the 156. They would have been compatible. They were basically a 23m, 2-car, diesel powered 323.

What killed the 157 was lack of funding.

Hunslet had done most of the work and just needed an order. BR was not interested and Strathclyde council could not afford to go it alone.

Fife Council were interested in funding some to replace the class 107 units then still in use on the peak Fife trains (and on future Leven services) but pulled out.

They needed more DMUs but as the 155/156 production line was long closed and the 158 was unsuitable, the 157 was the only bid when it went to tender.

Strathclyde even offered to put money towards new some 158s if BR sold them some 156s but BR said no.

The whole saga was played out weekly in the local paper at the time (Dunfermline Press).

I did read that short term plans were for infill electrification (Newcastle - Sunderland, Preston - Blackpool for example) and reopening stations.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't see anything planned by Regional Railways that got cancelled as far as I'm aware. However, there was a plan to convert the existing Class 156 two-car units to become Class 152 single-car units, but in the event the two-car Class 155s were converted to single-car Class 153s instead.

Scotrail (although not part of Regional Railways) did plan to introduce the Class 157 Sprinter units in the 1990s for Strathclyde suburban services, but the privatisation of British Rail cancelled the project.

Re: 152 single cars: I fell into that trap too- Wikipedia is/was incorrect about the plan being to convert 156s. A brief look at the inner vehicle end shows that this would be pretty much impossible unless Flat Stanley was your driver! I believe there was a proposal for Metro-Cammell to develop a new build single-car unit based on the 156 platform. However due to reliability issues with 155s coupled with a downturn in traffic, and with the 153 idea being cheaper at least on paper, meant the 152 plans weren't taken forward. A shame as not only would we have more DMUs in traffic, but our single-car units would be a bit less rubbish!

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW North Western Trains almost ordered the 175s as one and two-car units rather than two and three.