Regulated fares to increase by 2.8% from January 2020

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by KashmireHawker, 14 Aug 2019.

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  1. KashmireHawker

    KashmireHawker Member

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    Expected rise confirmed in the last few minutes

    From the BBC: Rail fares set to rise again by up to 2.8% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49331238

     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2019
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  3. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    As always grrr. Mind you, I think it will affect less tickets than in previous years. I believe some will be unchanged or even decrease. 2.8% is what fares CAN rise by, not WILL rise by.
     
  4. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    The increase will put around £100 on annual season tickets for commuters.

    The government said wages are also rising but not everyone agrees

    Annoying but not surprised at this

    https://news.sky.com/story/rail-season-tickets-to-rise-by-up-to-2-8-in-january-11785073
    Would nationalisation stop rail fare increases though?
    Not exactly much of a consolation prize is it?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 14 Aug 2019
  5. matacaster

    matacaster Member

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    This may not be popular, but people who commute generally make some calculations. Eg cost of house Vs cost of travel to work + extra salary + journey time usually to big population centres like London etc. Rail and any other infrastructure enhancement is eye-wateringly expensive in such places. As ever more people want to commute, they have to pay the price of transport or change jobs / move house to make things more equitable.
     
  6. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Regulated fares rarely remain unchanged or decrease; do you have any examples of this happening recently?
    There's a whole different argument to be had regarding commuting choices that goes well beyond the scope of the fares increase; feel free to create a new thread in General Discussion and I'll post my views there.

    But I do not think it is fair that rail fares should increase disproportionately compared to the cost of other modes of travel.

    This is also aimed, I believe, at getting more and more people onto Advance fares. We know that companies such as Virgin really do not like regulated ex-"Saver" fares, and are keen to see them scrapped or made less viable. Every time the regulated fares increase by a disproportionate amount, it reduces the proportion of people buying those fares compared to the products that are more restrictive, such as 'dedicated' fares ('dedicated' fares are defined as fares that are valid on only the specified TOC(s)) and other less flexible fares.
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2019
  7. GB

    GB Established Member

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    How disproportionate is it though? Car insurance and maintenance costs all go up by at least the rate of inflation, as does road side assistance services. From April this year VED rises in line with RPI as well.
     
  8. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Before privatisation, there were many good value fares, but most of these have increased disproportionately in recent years.

    Some of the early TOCs had good value fares, and even today some TOCs fares are not too bad, at least on certain routes.

    The fact that we have a fragmented system means that you can buy a ticket that is priced at a level that is not totally absurd, and use it on a route where intermediate journeys have skyrocketed in recent years.

    I do not like to give examples that could be at risk, but a high profile example of being able to undercut an expensive fare is that an Anytime Day Single (SDS) from Clapham Junction to Bournemouth is a ludicrous £52.10. However an SDS from Brighton to Bournemouth, valid via Clapham Jn, is a slightly more reasonable £44.00.

    If anyone is interested in how to unlock these good value fares, you are welcome to join us at a free fares workshop. There is no catch; it's just a good opportunity for forum members to share their knowledge.

    https://www.rac.co.uk/report-on-motoring/report-one/cost-of-motoring
    I don't think there is really any question that rail fares have risen to a greater extent than motoring costs in recent years but if there is any debate about that, then it would need to go into a new thread.

    No, at least not in the short to medium term; the reason behind the increases is due to Government policy that sees rail journeys as a premium product to be paid for by the passengers; to reduce the 'burden' on taxpayers who use private, rather than public transport; to keep a lid on growth so that fewer additional vehicles and infrastructure improvements need to be made.
    Not for the vast majority of the population, no!

     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2019
  9. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

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    See my Venn diagram ;)
    C8360C1F-F328-42B0-A005-082AD91DBE28.jpeg
    Anecdotally, I know of many who've already stopped taking the train as it's too expensive.

    Those who've now bought cars are probably lost for good to the railway.
     
  10. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    But how many adults dont have access to a railcard when buying fares in general after 30 unless you have a child you cant get discounts on regular fares
     
  11. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Exactly.
     
  12. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    I see the benefits of a card like this but the fares going up isnt going to help. They need to make discounts available to a better range of people than just young people

    Increase means Local passengers will be better off than commuters as usual
     
  13. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    Again the government deliberately punishes people who choose one of the most sustainable transport modes by allowing fares to increase significantly above what would be fair under the National Statistic measure of inflation, and against what people can reasonably be expected to afford given recent years' and current wage growth.

    All the while car drivers aren't asked to pay in parity through higher fuel duties. The effective rate of these goes down every year prices rise, as there has been no fuel duty rise since 2010. Airlines continue not to be asked to pay any tax whatsoever on aircraft fuel, despite this being a straightforward and viable option.

    Draconian Penalty Fare rules and conditions of travel approved, franchise awards botched, taxpayers money squandered and performance dropping through the floor at the direction of Ministers, and now another significant price rise. When will the government stop beating rail travellers with a stick - or when will those few of us that do travel by rail still all commit to voting for something better?

    The government already has the power to prevent regulated fares from increasing - with or without nationalisation. They've just chosen not to because they don't see rail travellers as a political priority.

    Nearly all regulated fares rise by the maximum amount permitted, with effect from the soonest date permitted. This is the basis on which most franchise bids are made. If you've got some details of exceptions in the past though I'd be interested to hear them?
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2019
  14. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    And yet they want to get more people off the roads, travelling by train needs to stop being falsely presented as a luxury
     
  15. AntoniC

    AntoniC Member

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    My annual payrise this year ??
    1.84% - my next annual Merseyrail All Zone Trio ticket will go up by 3.1% ( £1341 to £1383 per annum)
    Its great value for me as it gets me all round Merseyside for work & leisure - if it keeps going up greater than my payrise I cant wait till I get to 60 in 7 years time and get my Mersyside Concessionary Pass (if its still going !).
     
  16. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    What do you mean by this statement?
     
  17. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    Well the passengers who live local and only travel to local stations get the least amount of increase

    Stone to stoke, return for example every year goes up by 10p so next year it will rise from £3.80 to £3.90

    While commuters who travel longer distances pay way more and its unfair for them the most
     
  18. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    Isn't £3.80 to £3.90 equivalent to around 2.8%?

    Or are you arguing that fares shouldn't be based on distance?
     
  19. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    Thats right but no Iam arguing the fares increases are unfair as its commuters who always suffer

    The fair system is bad in general but the increases dont help anyway
     
  20. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    1. Surely the same increase (broadly) for everybody - i.e. in this case 2.8% - is the "fair" approach?
    2. If the fare system "is bad in general" how would you change it?
     
  21. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    Your not getting what iam saying
    Iam trying to argue it isnt fair for the fairs to be increased in general, it isnt fair on anyone. Considering the little that is put back into improving the railways
     
  22. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    Increasing fares affects people who use the train be then commuters or leisure travellers. Those who use it more are affected more, just like those who eat more crisps would be affected more if the price of crisps went up. I don’t see the argument that specifically commuters suffer.
     
  23. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    If fares cannot be increased, but costs are rising how do you balance the books?
     
  24. mikeg

    mikeg Member

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    Increased subsidy on one hand. On the other hand a more efficient industry structure and more joined up thinking would also help. Why can't we have both like most of the rest of Europe?
     
  25. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    Good luck getting the Govt to prioritise railway subsidy over the NHS, Police, Education ...

    Some structural changes could save a bit of money, but not sure enough to balance out rising costs.

    Not sure what "more joined up thinking" means in this context.
     
  26. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    Cause they pay more than leisure travellers. Thousands a year or maybe hundreds a month for a service that doesn’t seem to improve
     
  27. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    TOCs putting more money back into the railway and less to shareholders??
     
  28. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    The only way to improve things quickly is get people off the railway. Reduce the need for so many trains and you can build in some recovery time. Or get people to travel at different times.

    Increasing fares is sadly a pretty effective way of doing the former and to a degree the latter.
     
  29. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Season ticket holders pay less than leisure travellers. Often it is about 1/3 less, i.e. they get Anytime travel for Off-Peak prices. If they pay hundreds per month, they get over 20 return journeys for those hundreds. How do they pay more than leisure travellers then? Maybe you should give some examples where commuters pay more than leisure travellers.
     
  30. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    Really? I suggest you research the state of the railways 20 or 30 years ago.

    New trains on many routes throughout the country
    Increased frequencies
    Rebuilds of stations like Kings Cross, St Pancras, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Victoria
    GWR electrification
    Northern electrification

    I could go on but to suggest little goes into improving the railway is wide of the mark.
     
  31. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Indeed, but won't stop the ill-informed from spouting nonsense, but as if that will change, who am I kidding.

    This kind of threads regurgitate themselves three times each year. Anyone wanting to have the cyclic argument again can simply revisit an old thread and change the dates/year in them.

    You've all had your fun this time, so I will reopen this in December when next year's fares are loaded in for another repeat of broken records.
     
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