Reigate stabling sidings

[JonathanH]

Redhill would also be better served by one of the Southern coast services diverted off the quarries.

Which users of the Southern coast services are happy to have their service diverted via Redhill adding delay and overcrowding to it?

This is an unfunded project according to NR article but is it hiding under the Brighton Main Line NREP scheme which is at decision to develop hence this proposal. Although not sure it really helps BML as the Slow lines between Redhill and Gatwick are hardly at capacity.

The point you miss here is that building the Reigate platform removes splitting at Redhill and makes journeys quicker for people from stations south of Redhill who currently have to wait at Redhill for ten minutes in each direction.

The occupation of platform 3 at Redhill for splitting causes quite a lot of delay. The fact that no fast trains run via Redhill is due to the potential delay caused by stopping and splitting trains. Now that the Victoria to Brighton Southern service is being diverted to the East Coastway, there is perhaps an outside possibility of a Victoria to Brighton slow being reintroduced once the Croydon work is done.

Switching the BED-GAT TL service to Reigate will save at least one diagram as the layover is 28mins currently.

Quite a useful thing as there aren't enough 12-car units for the desired services.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The point you miss here is that building the Reigate platform removes splitting at Redhill and makes journeys quicker for people from stations south of Redhill who currently have to wait at Redhill for ten minutes in each direction.


.

This is only a rush hour issue though but understand the benefit although Redhill make a hash of splitting and joining compared to the slickness that Haywards Heath manage

When the Portsmouths used to run via Redhill they were well loaded from Victoria with Redhill traffic and there is plenty of commuter traffic to/from the South of Redhill as well which is why a decent Victoria service is also required

 

[JonathanH]

When the Portsmouths used to run via Redhill they were well loaded from Victoria with Redhill traffic and there is plenty of commuter traffic to/from the South of Redhill as well which is why a decent Victoria service is also required

I don't deny that a decent Victoria service with the right amount of capacity is required at Redhill (and might be high up in the queue once the Croydon work is done). What isn't needed is for that train to be full when it gets to Redhill (and equally for Redhill passengers to take up space required by people travelling further afield on southbound trains).

The Arun Valley trains still run via Redhill on a Sunday morning and, it is, by all accounts a disaster, because everyone at Redhill aims for them and then finds they can't get on. That is the problem of running South Coast trains via Redhill.

If just there was a way of having through trains to Brighton that didn't also have to be trains which are also full when they get to Redhill northbound.

 

[bassmike]

Yes, when it is necessary to clear platform 2 and the siding is unavailable, it is possible to undertake a double shunt to platform 1 using the crossover.

Happens every so often - not regularly.

Yes, when it is necessary to clear platform 2 and the siding is unavailable, it is possible to undertake a double shunt to platform 1 using the crossover.

Happens every so often - not regularly.

Thanks. on same subject ,I suppose that Cl 73's to or from west direction would stir up the rust on the L/C end ramps?

 

[700007]

Network Rail have launched a new consultation (couldn't find anything mentioned on this forum or online) about creating a new platform 3 at Reigate Station which will be able to hold a 12-car unit. They also state that this will be for 'brand new Thameslink services connecting Reigate with London Bridge'.

I didn't know Reigate was on the cards for Thameslink and wanted to know more about it.

We’re proposing a new, 12-car turn back platform at Reigate station.
This will provide greater capacity, a more reliable service and improved connections to Thameslink destinations in London and beyond.

The proposals are part of our long-term plans to run more reliable, more frequent and faster services on the Brighton Main Line and its branch lines.

A) what's the timescale of this?
B) is this new Thameslink service going to be a brand new service completely or a diversion of an existing service (i.e. Bedford to Gatwick Airport or Peterborough to Horsham)?
B ii) is it going to be just peaks only or all day?
C) what will happen to the existing semi-fast London Victoria to Reigate services?

Link to the consultation can be found here: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...he-brighton-main-line/reigate-station-upgrade

 

[westcoaster]

Just saw this also, first I or and colleagues have heard of the idea. I wonder if this will take the path of the Victoria trains calling all stations to Norwood junction and then onto london bridge (replacement for the maidstone service maybe) and upto cambridge.

 

[700007]

Just saw this also, first I or and colleagues have heard of the idea. I wonder if this will take the path of the Victoria trains calling all stations to Norwood junction and then onto london bridge (replacement for the maidstone service maybe) and upto cambridge.

I was thinking if it was going to be a rerouting of the Maidstone East service but that's booked to be 8 coaches whereas they are making provisions for this to be 12 which makes me think it is either as I stated above a rerouting of the Bedford - Gatwick Airport service, Peterborough to Horsham service or possibly a rerouting of the Bedford to East Grinstead service instead?

 

[Aictos]

I was thinking if it was going to be a rerouting of the Maidstone East service but that's booked to be 8 coaches whereas they are making provisions for this to be 12 which makes me think it is either as I stated above a rerouting of the Bedford - Gatwick Airport service, Peterborough to Horsham service or possibly a rerouting of the Bedford to East Grinstead service instead?

Considering Bedford to Gatwick is 4tph, I can’t see why one can’t be rerouted to Reigate as it’s still 3tph plus 4tph GatEx and countless Southern services.

 

[hwl]

2tph Gatwick - Bedford via Redhill swaps to Reigate and the other half of the swap is Victoria - Redhill - Reigate goes to TB / Horsham etc instead.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Is there sufficient leeway in the rules about no more 3rd rail electrification to permit a new platform to be so equipped?

 

[JonathanH]

Is there sufficient leeway in the rules about no more 3rd rail electrification to permit a new platform to be so equipped?

They allowed Redhill platform 0 and Gatwick platform 7 so I doubt this extra bay platform at Reigate is going to be an issue from the restrictions on extension of third rail electrification. Part of the plan is a new substation to provide the additional supply needed for longer electric trains.

 

[DelW]

Is there sufficient leeway in the rules about no more 3rd rail electrification to permit a new platform to be so equipped?

Additional third rail equipped platforms have been built at Redhill and Reading quite recently, so presumably would be allowed at Reigate too.

 

[MarkyT]

Additional third rail equipped platforms have been built at Redhill and Reading quite recently, so presumably would be allowed at Reigate too.

Small scale 3rd rail extensions, for additional running lines, sidings and platforms and the junctions to access these in existing corridors are explicitly allowed. Best modern practice for staff and public protection would be expected of course. Larger scale extensions such as Ore - Ashford would not be allowed under current guidance.

 

[Minstral25]

At Reigate it is a 3rd Rail equipped siding replaced by a 3rd Rail equipped platform - so nothing extra just direction of entry changing

 

[Aictos]

2tph Gatwick - Bedford via Redhill swaps to Reigate and the other half of the swap is Victoria - Redhill - Reigate goes to TB / Horsham etc instead.

Has that been confirmed anywhere?

 

[JonathanH]

Has that been confirmed anywhere?

It is implied by the literature as being the starting point for the resulting service changes - ie Victoria trains no longer split at Redhill (so must go to Gatwick or Three Bridges), Thameslink trains run to Reigate. They would hardly take the Thameslink service away from Horsham given the traincrew and stabling sidings there so the likely outcome is that Bedford trains go to Reigate.

https://consultations.networkrail.co.uk/communications/reigate-station/

We are investigating possible timetable alterations which would result in some service changes at Reigate and other local stations including, Earlswood, Salfords and Horley. The option illustrated below shows one possible service pattern and we would like to hear your views.

 

[hwl]

It is implied by the literature as being the starting point for the resulting service changes - ie Victoria trains no longer split at Redhill (so must go to Gatwick or Three Bridges), Thameslink trains run to Reigate. They would hardly take the Thameslink service away from Horsham given the traincrew and stabling sidings there so the likely outcome is that Bedford trains go to Reigate.

https://consultations.networkrail.co.uk/communications/reigate-station/

It also allows more timetabling flexibility options by transferring those 2 TL services to Reigate so quite for reason not stated too...

 

[JonathanH]

It also allows more timetabling flexibility options by transferring those 2 TL services to Reigate so quite for reason not stated too...

One big problem of linking Reigate to Bedford is that the second Bedford Thameslink service is frequently cancelled for weekend engineering work (eg two track railway north of St Pancras, closures via London Bridge / New Cross Gate and when half of East Croydon is shut) and in disruption in favour of the Brighton to Bedford service so there may well be frequent occurrences of Reigate just being linked to Redhill (or maybe Tonbridge) instead of Thameslink at the weekends.

 

[JB25]

I have signed Reigate as a route for about 5 years now. In that time I have been in (and out) of the siding 3 times. Rarely if ever gets used. In that time I have done the cross platform shunt once.

I'm intrigued how this new rebuilding work there is going to pan out down there and what it means for Southern services as I was told the 12 car platform that will be built is for Thameslink services.

 

[JB25]

No, platform 2 is regarded as long enough only for four coaches. Platform 1 may well be slightly longer. Official lengths are 85 metres for platform 2 (down) and 171 metres for platform 1 (up).

Any redevelopment at Reigate would add a 12-car platform but it is not funded.

Both Platforms at Reigate are officially 4 car length. You could probably fit 5 in 2 and 6 in 1 realistically, but the official length is 4. When I was learning the route I was briefed I could take 8 cars there but we have to take 4 across the level crossing to an 8 car stop mark (and block the road all the while!). But I have never known a driver who has had to do that particular move.

 

[JonathanH]

I have signed Reigate as a route for about 5 years now. In that time I have been in (and out) of the siding 3 times. Rarely if ever gets used. In that time I have done the cross platform shunt once.

I'm intrigued how this new rebuilding work there is going to pan out down there and what it means for Southern services as I was told the 12 car platform that will be built is for Thameslink services.

The siding was used on a daily basis prior to May 2018 to recess a Southern unit in the morning peak while a GWR train used platform 2. There is no need to use it in the current timetable but some of the engineering work timetables see long turnarounds at Reigate with use of the siding while a GWR service uses platform 2.

If the extra platform is built, the pointwork all needs to be moved back to be much nearer the Croydon Road bridge, though presumably signal RG23 wouldn't be moved.

The working assumption appears to be that there wouldn't continue to be a Southern service to Reigate although, operationally, it would appear to make sense for Southern traincrew at Redhill to retain knowledge for running Reigate to Tonbridge when engineering work dictates a reduction in the Thameslink service (or in the evening).

Both Platforms at Reigate are officially 4 car length. You could probably fit 5 in 2 and 6 in 1 realistically, but the official length is 4. When I was learning the route I was briefed I could take 8 cars there but we have to take 4 across the level crossing to an 8 car stop mark (and block the road all the while!). But I have never known a driver who has had to do that particular move.

If a 377 fails at Reigate, another one will come and push it over the crossing to be able to clear the pointwork. It doesn't happen very often as you say.

 

[JB25]

I really hope we don't lose it, my depot doesn't sign Reigate's, but I retained the route from when I was previously based at Selhurst, and it is nice to go down there as a break from the norm every so often.

 

[JonathanH]

I really hope we don't lose it, my depot doesn't sign Reigate's, but I retained the route from when I was previously based at Selhurst, and it is nice to go down there as a break from the norm every so often.

The current Victoria to Reigate trains will just go to Gatwick or Three Bridges instead so there will still be trains from Victoria towards Redhill in the current path.

 

[Deepgreen]

May have been mentioned already, but the extended down platform will enable trains to stop well short of the LC, which should improve things for motorists.

Trains already arrive at the platform with the crossing open - the reversing ones all do so. There is no reason why through trains have to have the barriers down as soon as they leave Redhill - just approach on a red, as the reversers do. Many's the time when I used to commute there that emergency vehicles with 'blues and twos' on would be forced to await a Guildford train's approach, arrival, station stop and departure before proceeding, when the barriers could have been closed far later. The risk of an overshoot for a reverser is identical to that of a through train if both are stopping anyway.

 

[JonathanH]

Trains already arrive at the platform with the crossing open - the reversing ones all do so. There is no reason why through trains have to have the barriers down as soon as they leave Redhill - just approach on a red, as the reversers do. Many's the time when I used to commute there that emergency vehicles with 'blues and twos' on would be forced to await a Guildford train's approach, arrival, station stop and departure before proceeding, when the barriers could have been closed far later. The risk of an overshoot for a reverser is identical to that of a through train if both are stopping anyway.

I don't think the Reigate crossing cycle is a function of there being a possible overrun. It is more about the timetable being met. Either the route is clear as the train approaches Reigate and the train can leave once dispatch is done or the train has to come to a halt before the crossing cycle can start. The timetable probably isn't written around the longer dwell time needed for that form of operation of the barriers.

 

[Minstral25]

I don't think the Reigate crossing cycle is a function of there being a possible overrun. It is more about the timetable being met. Either the route is clear as the train approaches Reigate and the train can leave once dispatch is done or the train has to come to a halt before the crossing cycle can start. The timetable probably isn't written around the longer dwell time needed for that form of operation of the barriers.

True, maybe they should add an extra 2 minutes dwell at Reigate westbound to allow the crossing to close after the train has arrived. Would reduce the issues on the road.

 

[Bald Rick]

True, maybe they should add an extra 2 minutes dwell at Reigate westbound to allow the crossing to close after the train has arrived. Would reduce the issues on the road.

But cause the train to lose its path at Shalford Jn.

 

[Minstral25]

But cause the train to lose its path at Shalford Jn.

Of course, unless you change the timetable to make it work. Looking at the current 3tph plan for the 769's it seems they are already quite stretched to fit them all in around everyone else and it could perhaps do with a complete rethink.

 

[Bald Rick]

Of course, unless you change the timetable to make it work.

Ah, well that’s the thing. It’s not easy!

 

[Minstral25]

Ah, well that’s the thing. It’s not easy!

Absolutely - but maybe a start would be to separate the two local services. Reading to Guildford and Guildford to Redhill to avoid the long sitting time at Guildford & improve flexibility.
All good things start as a challenge.