Remaining Class 365s leaving GN - What next for the 365s?

[Team Defect]

The GN fleet is being reduced due to the reduction in passenger numbers.

It has been confirmed that the remaining 21 x Class 365s will be leaving GN and placed into storage. What next for the 365s? Scrape or moved to another operator?

GN to get 6 x 387/2 units from Gatwick Express and another 6 x 387s from C2C.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Where has this been confirmed?

 

[Team Defect]

Confirmed at team brief to Hornsey depot staff a few days ago.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I mean fair enough you probably have inside knowledge, but I'd rather wait for official confirmation as plenty of things have been said before that turn out not to be true.

 

[Team Defect]

Yes I have inside knowledge and this is what our depot manager has informed us is happening.

 

[D365]

Yes I have inside knowledge and this is what our depot manager has informed us is happening.

Even if true, it’s really not a great idea to publicise this until an official press release.

 

[James Kevill]

30 Class 379s from Greater Anglia could replace the 21 Class 365s on the Great Northern services if Class 365s are leaving Great Northern. But the question is, what will the 365s go? And will happen to them for the future?

 

[JonathanH]

30 Class 379s from Greater Anglia could replace the 21 Class 365s on the Great Northern services if Class 365s are leaving Great Northern. But the question is, what will the 365s go? And will happen to them for the future?

The topic of this thread appears to be 12 387s to replace 21 365s, nothing to do with 379s. Seems plausible enough.

The OP has indicated that the 365s go to storage and, one would guess, potentially scrap.

 

[Journeyman]

Cue the "alternative uses for class 365" thread...

Probably scrap. They're decent trains, but there's better out there, there's a surplus of EMUs at the moment, and their lifespan has been pretty respectable.

Agree with comments upthread that leaking internal staff comms before public confirmation is very unwise, and could make for an uncomfortable word from your boss.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Cue the "alternative uses for class 365" thread...

Probably scrap. They're decent trains, but there's better out there, there's a surplus of EMUs at the moment, and their lifespan has been pretty respectable.

Agree with comments upthread that leaking internal staff comms before public confirmation is very unwise, and could make for an uncomfortable word from your boss.

His boss is unlikely to know who “Team Defect” is but my question is, if this is true when will it happen??

 

[XCTurbostar]

I'm guessing this is a short term arrangement.. how can GX and C2C sustain after COVID without those units?

 

[JonathanH]

I'm guessing this is a short term arrangement.. how can GX and C2C sustain after COVID without those units?

If reduced passenger numbers in the medium term mean that 12 387s can replace 21 365s, then GX and C2C should each be able to deal without 6 units. The 6 387s on C2C operate a pair of very low mileage peak only diagrams. Gatwick Express had already cut back services in the light of Gatwick Airport station remodelling.

 

[fgwrich]

I'm guessing this is a short term arrangement.. how can GX and C2C sustain after COVID without those units?

Coupled with the post above, there is 27 Gatwick Express 387s. So losing 6 shouldn't make much of a dent in the fleet and perhaps may mean a few more of the Brighton services returns to "Southern" stock. It's all rather academic in TSGN anyway.

 

[Team Defect]

Regarding future use for 365s. There were reps from a company, a few weeks ago, looking around a 365 unit at the depot with one of our RSIs. They were looking at the possibility of fitting traction batteries and doing some refurb work for a potential new operator. Don't know who that potential new operator might be I'm afraid.

 

[ashkeba]

Does this mean we will be back to sardine services post Covid for a year or two until more stock is procured?

 

[Chiltern006]

After this announcement, anyone know whats going on with the 379s, would've expected them to go to GN to kick the 387s down to SN or somewhere

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm guessing this is a short term arrangement.. how can GX and C2C sustain after COVID without those units?

Aren't c2c losing their 387s anyway once they get their 711s?

 

[Team Defect]

Does this mean we will be back to sardine services post Covid for a year or two until more stock is procured?

You are assuming passenger numbers return to pre-covid levels. It seems the rail industry thinks this will not happen as companies have realised that employees can work from home and commuting is not so necessary anymore. Hence the reduction in GN units.

 

[Energy]

Aren't c2c losing their 387s anyway once they get their 711s?

Yep, they are getting 720s.

Hence the reduction in GN units.

The 365s didn't have particularly high usage.

 

[Journeyman]

Regarding future use for 365s. There were reps from a company, a few weeks ago, looking around a 365 unit at the depot with one of our RSIs. They were looking at the possibility of fitting traction batteries and doing some refurb work for a potential new operator. Don't know who that potential new operator might be I'm afraid.

You really haven't got the hang of this "not talking about commercially sensitive stuff" thing, have you? You can get into massive trouble for this.

 

[Fincra5]

You are assuming passenger numbers return to pre-covid levels. It seems the rail industry thinks this will not happen as companies have realised that employees can work from home and commuting is not so necessary anymore. Hence the reduction in GN units.

For now... who can say what it would be like in years to come.
379s will be available, possibly for the GN, 377/5s.might return from SE.

It's a lot of might and maybes.. ultimately the DfT make the decision.

 

[Egg Centric]

Does this mean that as of today no more will run in passenger service for the foreseeable future?

Or would it be possible for someone in the fortunate position of being able to make an unavoidable railway journey on the GN route in the near future, albeit with a lot of discretion over when it took place, be able to adjust the timing of his journey so that he gets to hear that glorious "gear changing that isn't gear changing" acceleration sound one last time?

 

[southern442]

Yep, they are getting 720s.

Off-Topic, but since they are now the only 10-car trains in this fleet and they will be going to a separate operator to the rest, and will have separate ownership, would it not make more sense to renumber them back to a separate class?

 

[Energy]

Off-Topic, but since they are now the only 10-car trains in this fleet and they will be going to a separate operator to the rest, and will have separate ownership, would it not make more sense to renumber them back to a separate class?

ROSCO and TOC don't matter for a different number...

 

[ashkeba]

You are assuming passenger numbers return to pre-covid levels. It seems the rail industry thinks this will not happen as companies have realised that employees can work from home and commuting is not so necessary anymore. Hence the reduction in GN units.

A net loss of 9 of I think 50 GN Outer units seems to be assuming all current homeworkers continue to do it and there is no other growth at peak. It seems too big a cut.

 

[Energy]

A net loss of 9 of I think 50 GN Outer units seems to be assuming all current homeworkers continue to do it and there is no other growth at peak. It seems too big a cut.

365s had low uterisafion. Remaining lack of units can be met by slack used up in the 387 and 700 fleets.

 

[bramling]

365s had low uterisafion. Remaining lack of units can be met by slack used up in the 387 and 700 fleets.

Is there that much slack in the 700 fleet looking to the medium term? At present they are three (IIRC) 700/0 diagrams down on the GN side due to the peak Welwyns not running, but that’s it. If the Welwyns return then then will be back to being tight, and there’s not that much slack from elsewhere on TL, unless other stuff is cut.

There’s less slack in the GN 387 fleet since Kings Lynn 8-car happened. Presumably any slack is in the wider GTR fleet (eg the Gatwick units) rather than the existing GN 387s.

Herewith the start of all the nasty stuff that’s the consequence of Covid. Thin end of wedge.

 

[Geeves]

You really haven't got the hang of this "not talking about commercially sensitive stuff" thing, have you? You can get into massive trouble for this.

Commercially sensitive for who? 30 year old rollingstock goes into storage due to low passenger numbers, it cant really be a surprise to the ROSCO.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

A net loss of 9 of I think 50 GN Outer units seems to be assuming all current homeworkers continue to do it and there is no other growth at peak. It seems too big a cut.

Its and 18% cut in fleet, or put another way its still 82% or previous capacity left, I don’t believe anyone is expecting that level of return to commuting any time soon.

 

[RichardKing]

Send all the GX 387s to GN and bring back the 442s